I want one! Starwave ASCENT 102ED F11

[Fozzie]

34 minutes ago, John said:

I doubt the ED will blow the achro out of the water because the 102 F/11 achros were well executed scopes that provide pretty much textbook optical performance for a crown flint doublet of 102mm aperture and a focal ratio of 11.

There will be some differences though because a 102mm objective will still be showing some false colour due to the physics of the glass involved. I think a 102mm achromat needs to be at least F/15 before the false colour control can reach ED doublet levels, assuming other things are equal.

It's also possible that the figure and polish of the ED objectives is a little tighter but my understanding is that some care was taken with the manufacture of the 102mm F/11 achromat objective as well.

The differences, such as they are, are likely to be seen more in the performance at high magnifications IMHO.

 

 

This actually taps in to every concern I have about this scope.  Hence why i'm being coy on it, and having doubts about selling off my equipment!

I know from last year, my starwave Achro will show me the best the sky conditions offer, as im sure the ED will, I also know that with my achro I can see down to approx. 2.3km (Gassendi P) craters on the moon, again subject to conditions, but that's my "record" I believe currently..  That was with the Achro and a Semi Apo Filter..  I'm hesitant because I'm thinking the Achro with Semi Apo filter, might just be very close in performance to the ED version.  

Although as you say, its possible the differences are seen at higher magnifications, how often do we get the chance to push, I've no real experience of ED or APO scopes, so Im at a loss here.. ie on any given night if the achro was good for 160x, would an ED be good for say 200x because of better optics, giving me better chances to see finer details on planets and lunar..?

I'm starting to sense small gains with this scope..

 

[Alan White]

1 hour ago, Fozzie said:

I think I might be a secret hoarder..  My brain works in strange ways sometimes..

just sometimes?   

I know I am, I get told this all the time by Mrs. W and I am sure many Astronomers are too.

[Mark at Beaufort]

I currently don't own a refractor and the thought of a 4" ED which can be adjusted to take binoviewers does sound appealing.

My Alt/Az mount is a AZ5 on the Skywatcher matching heavy duty tripod with the small pillar. The literature states a 9kg capacity and the tripod can extend to 115 cm + 21 cm for the pillar. Altair Astro is down to be at the Astro Show in Kettering on 9th March - perhaps they might have one on display. Better still if they can undertake a Solar White Light demo.

[Fozzie]

6 minutes ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

 Altair Astro is down to be at the Astro Show in Kettering on 9th March - perhaps they might have one on display.

Interesting.... i might just go to that..

[John]

At last years IAS show one stand had a couple of the 102 F/11 achros for sale. They looked great in the red colour scheme but also reminded me of just how long an F/11 "unfolded" scope is. Long enough I suspect for the moment arm force on the mount / tripod to become dominant over weight with regard to how sturdy the mounting arrangements need to be.

 

[Saganite]

I have just read the first light report from Thomas ( Astrojenson) on CN . Only a brief session but it is extremely encouraging. 

[John]

6 minutes ago, Saganite said:

I have just read the first light report from Thomas ( Astrojenson) on CN . Only a brief session but it is extremely encouraging. 

I agree it's very positive but I think it's what you would expect from a) the manufactuer that made the 102 F/11 achromat and b) now has the benefit of using an ED element at the same focal ratio. If they had messed that up I'd have been amazed to be honest with you. There are a few minor teething problems with the focuser and QC from Thomas's report but I'm sure they are sortable.

 

 

 

[Alan White]

12 hours ago, Saganite said:

I have just read the first light report from Thomas ( Astrojenson) on CN . Only a brief session but it is extremely encouraging. 

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/646132-starwave-102ed-f11-yes-ed/page-4

So have I, sounds very promising indeed.

PS, I hope a link makes it easeir to find and meets forum rule.
 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Alan White
typo

[Peter Drew]

Me too, certainly sounds promising. The fine focuser and misaligned tube section seem consistent with a bump during transit, fortunately not of any great consequence in this instance. Be interesting to see what Ed Harrison has to say after testing one of his stock.    ?

[Saganite]

12 minutes ago, Alan White said:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/646132-starwave-102ed-f11-yes-ed/page-4

So have I, sounds very promising indeed.

PS, I hope a link makes it easeir to find and meets forum rule.
 

Thanks Alan for the link. I confess I have to learn how to do that sometime 

[Fozzie]

Yes the initial reports do sound encouraging, certainly the Achro does show some false colour at 170x, but it's not objectionable, and the semi apo filter does help.  So good to hear that it's virtually non existent at 170x in the ED variant! As that's usually my upper limit on good nights due to seeing and local conditions. 

I swear the river to the south of me gives of more thermals than a radiator sometimes!

As said though, and not the first time we've seen this with a new scope, packaging and transport seem to have let it down a bit. 

I'm going to hang fire for some more reports, photo's and the like, the intention currently is to go to the Astro Show in Kettering and have a look.. hopefully feel assured enough to walk away with one!

[Alan White]

Sensible course of action @Fozzie, very sensible.

The packaging on many scopes could be better, double boxing and impact absorbing foam with decent space around it are pre-requisite.
 

[John]

12 minutes ago, Alan White said:

Sensible course of action @Fozzie, very sensible.

The packaging on many scopes could be better, double boxing and impact absorbing foam with decent space around it are pre-requisite.
 

Tak triple box theirs:

[Alan White]

Wish everyone did John.
Vixen double box scopes as far as I know, perhaps its a Japanese thing or do others do so too?

[John]

1 hour ago, Alan White said:

Wish everyone did John.
Vixen double box scopes as far as I know, perhaps its a Japanese thing or do others do so too?

Skywatcher used to double box I seem to recall but the ED150 arrived in a case in a single card box with foam inserts. I think this will be improved now though.

 

 

 

[Chris]

This is the first scope to tempt me in quite some time. The combo of classic long focal length refractor and ED glass is very intriguing. However, I've lost my mojo recently owing to my present location, there isn't enough of the sky to see where I am, so I probably won't buy one for both that reason....and mounting reasons. 

I remember there being an f/11 Pentax ED frac on Ebay a couple of years back, and everyone went nuts over it. This could be a very good budget version. 

[John]

More performance feedback from Thomas in Denmark:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/646132-starwave-102ed-f11-yes-ed/?p=9083787

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/646132-starwave-102ed-f11-yes-ed/?p=9084009

I wonder how much of what he is seeing is due to the conditions rather than the scope ?

 

 

[Prador]

I really like the look of this f11. For me, it does resurrect the question of the f11 102ED or a f12 SW Skymax 150.

Does anybody here have any experience of viewing through comparable telescopes? It would only be for planetary viewing.

Many thanks for any insight as it will inform what will probably be my final scope purchase.

[rhw1967]

Anyone have any further info on these and how they stack up against the Evostar 100ED ? Been trawling the internet and cannot find any direct comparisons or in-depth reviews.

[paulastro]

Well, the Practical Astronomy Show has come and gone at Kettering, and no-one has posted here and said they bought one, how disappointing.  I would like to see a review here from an experienced observer.  ?

 

[mikeDnight]

Here's a few sobering comments from a seasoned refractor aficionado from over the pond that may be worth pondering. However, having seen the 102ED F11 at Kettering over the weekend, I have to say it isn't as physically imposing as it sounds. And although in Paul's image above it looks a beast, I thought it was surprisingly small in the flesh, and not in the same mounting bracket as a 4" F15 Vixen or Unitron/Polarex.

 

[Fozzie]

Calm Down I've not bought one, just updating with the CN thread, that's reached 12 pages..

some nice photos, star pictures in and out of focus, as well as some daylight shots of CA (or lack of it)..

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/646132-starwave-102ed-f11-yes-ed/page-12

Has no one here not got one of these yet then?

Ta

Fozzie

[Alkaid]

On 19/01/2019 at 13:57, Prador said:

I really like the look of this f11. For me, it does resurrect the question of the f11 102ED or a f12 SW Skymax 150.

Does anybody here have any experience of viewing through comparable telescopes? It would only be for planetary viewing.

Many thanks for any insight as it will inform what will probably be my final scope purchase.

If you happen to suffer with floaters (like me), the bigger aperture will help with that and also provide a brighter image.

[John]

6 hours ago, Fozzie said:

Calm Down I've not bought one, just updating with the CN thread, that's reached 12 pages..

some nice photos, star pictures in and out of focus, as well as some daylight shots of CA (or lack of it)..

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/646132-starwave-102ed-f11-yes-ed/page-12

Has no one here not got one of these yet then?

Ta

Fozzie

I don't have one but I have been following that CN thread with great interest.

One thing about this scope that perplexes me though are the reports of 1 hour for the scope to fully cool down

I've seen this in more than one report so it seems to be a feature of the scope but it seems odd to me that a 102mm doublet should take this long. My Tak FC-100 needs hardly any cool down time and my Vixen ED102 needs 30 minutes (it has a fatter tube and thicker lenses than the Tak). 60 minutes does seem more like the time that a 150mm mak-cassegrain or 200mm SCT needs.

 

 

[Chris]

8 hours ago, John said:

I don't have one but I have been following that CN thread with great interest.

One thing about this scope that perplexes me though are the reports of 1 hour for the scope to fully cool down

I've seen this in more than one report so it seems to be a feature of the scope but it seems odd to me that a 102mm doublet should take this long. My Tak FC-100 needs hardly any cool down time and my Vixen ED102 needs 30 minutes (it has a fatter tube and thicker lenses than the Tak). 60 minutes does seem more like the time that a 150mm mak-cassegrain or 200mm SCT needs.

 

 

60 minutes for a 4" refractor can't be right surely? If true it's sad news. Reasonable cool down time and the ability to cut through poor seeing are two of the great things about this class of telescope that make them so suitable for the UK climate. 

I wonder what the cool down reports are like for the f/7 variant?