Which scope, best allrounder for visual only?

[Neil27]

A little explanation of my situation.

I have over the last few years whittled down my astronomy equipment to literally zero, due to work and time commitments, travelling away with work etc. Hence my decision to leave this great hobby over the last few years. Nothing has really changed in this new year to alter my situation but i guess I have taken stock and reviewed the things I enjoy and take pleasure in. So for this year I decided to head the opposite way and get back into this wonderful hobby.

So no thoughts or the appetite for time consuming or expensive astro photography for me, just occasional visual sessions of the sky when I want to and for how long I want to - basically at my own pace. Sometimes stripping something back to the basics makes you fall in love with it again and this is how I feel.

Apologies for the long winded introduction.  So what would I like and what are my preferences?

Definitely not goto - I want to 'discover' things again myself - I am already pretty familiar with the sky so can find my way around and the numerous new apps make it fairly easy as well, including advice from the forum as well, magazines, internet! The scope nothing to big, so not really interested in Dobsonians, I know they are the best value telescopes for the cost, just not my thing. I'm more of a grab and go type guy and with my work commitments would potentially entertain the possibility of taking my scope away with me, as I visit the whole of the UK from Scotland to Wales and the bits in between so can visit dark sites without too much effort.

Manual non-goto tripod - scope anything from 3 inches to 5 inches should suit.

Would like the tripod / mount arrangement to be quite sturdy, dependant on scope and also have big slow motion controls if possible - like the vixen porta mount but with a better tripod if possible.

Budget, well I would like to keep this below £500 if possible as I may have to buy a couple of nice eyepieces, I already have a 2 inch diagonal and a few other bits and bobs. I may be able to squeeze this up to £600 at a push!

Interests are absolutely everything, moon, planets, double stars, globular clusters, some of the brighter nebula, galaxies, comets, so quite varied.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this and I would welcome your thoughts. 

[ollypenrice]

Within the constraints you describe, one critical parameter emerges: focal length. A very long FL cannot provide widefield views and does not lend itself to an undriven, non go-to mount. You'd get the best planetary and lunar views from a Maksutov and it would be admirably compact but it will not be a rich field instrument. If you went for a fast achromat you'd get false colour on the moon and planets but a wider field of view. Nobody but you can make the call between these polar opposites. Essentially the all round scope does not exist, a bit like the all round shoe or the all round car.

Olly

[John]

The nearest combination that I can think of that might meet most of these needs (including budget !) would be something like a 200mm F/6 or 150mm F/8 newtonian mounted on a Skytee II alt-azimuth mount. These are not available as complete off the shelf solutions though - you would need to buy the optical tube and mount separately.

[Neil27]

You are correct one size will never fit all, and I suppose it was a bit mischievous of me to put the title up there. If possible and without too much effort I guess we could all list our essential 'top 3 scopes' we couldn't live without.

My reason for asking the question though was to really confirm my own thoughts on the one scope that would be suitable for my purposes. I already have an idea and that is a reasonable quality 3 to 4 inch refractor, say around f6 to f7 if possible. Not a big light bucket in any imagination, but small enough to pack away in a car when away with work, small enough to hustle around a dark site, no mirrors! and not too taxing a reasonably sized mount.

My main issue is getting one within my budget, something I may not achieve looking at the various websites.

Thanks for your input Olly.

[John]

If you don't want mirrors please ignore my suggestion

[Neil27]

9 minutes ago, John said:

The nearest combination that I can think of that might meet most of these needs (including budget !) would be something like a 200mm F/6 or 150mm F/8 newtonian mounted on a Skytee II alt-azimuth mount. These are not available as complete off the shelf solutions though - you would need to buy the optical tube and mount separately.

Hi John,

Looking at the sizes of these beasts, these may not be an option, certainly with working away a lot and needing to pack into a car.

One thing that has caught me eye are these from FLO - 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-startravel-102-az5-deluxe.html

and this one 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az5-deluxe.html

Again as Olly mentioned, no one scope can do everything, but both offer what I'm after - I wonder if FLO would do a discount if I took both ..... ?

[Ricochet]

A 130p/150p on an az4/5 would probably be my choice if we're discounting the 127 mak and dobs. 

Edit: ignore that, just seen the posts added since I opened the page! I think a 127 Mak would be preferable to a 102ST for an only scope. 

[Neil27]

No problem Ricochet.

One suggestion that does float my boat is maybe this 

- https://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/skywatcher-evostar-80ed-ds-pro-ota.html 

+ https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe-alt-azimuth-mount.html 

+ https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-38-stainless-steel-tripod.html

+ https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe-mount-extension-tube.html

Just done a quick count up and its coming in at £629 ..... ummmm .... ?

[jetstream]

Up to just over 200x the Heritage 130 is really nice on the moon, it is also a great little DSO grabber. We use it on a tripod or its capable table top mount. I find myself grabbing this scope often for fast viewing in variable skies.

 

ps- this scope shows more than my 90mm triplet apo... just sayin...

[Stu]

You could look at something like this:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4964_TS-Optics-ED-102mm-f-7-Refractor-Telescope-with-2-5--R-P-focuser.html

It's not the best glass out there, being FPL-51 not FPL-53, but it would still be alot better than an achromatic scope and it has a decent focuser on it. Perhaps might be a nice compromise and would give you widefield as well as high power possibilities.

Mount wise, an AZ5 would likely do the job, but best on a sturdier tripod so the head only option would be best, and source perhaps a 1.75" stainless steel one separately.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe-alt-azimuth-mount.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-38-stainless-steel-tripod.html

Hmmm, I think I've just blown your budget a smidge.  Options would be drop to an 80mm scope, which probably wouldn't cut it as a cover all bases, or buy second hand which can be a good option, or compromise in another area e.g. get a 127mm mak and lose the widefield or a 120ST frac and get more CA/less good high power performance. Or increase the budget of course

 

[bomberbaz]

Decent quality refractor that doesn't bust the bank and without too much CA, worth considering this one.

http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Telescopes-Opticstar.asp?p=0_10_1_1_54

I have one very similar to it and although there is some CA on planets and the moon, its not as bad as it could be. It offers great wide field views and is very portable, it even comes with it's own carry bag. 

[bomberbaz]

As for a tripod and mount, these two items along with the scope above keep under your budget and seemingly tick the boxes.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-38-stainless-steel-tripod.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe-alt-azimuth-mount.html

hth

Steve/Baz

[Neil27]

14 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Up to just over 200x the Heritage 130 is really nice on the moon, it is also a great little DSO grabber. We use it on a tripod or its capable table top mount. I find myself grabbing this scope often for fast viewing in variable skies.

 

ps- this scope shows more than my 90mm triplet apo... just sayin...

Hear what you saying Jetstream, just don't want the hassle of mirrors, particularly if lugging around in the car with me for a few days.

Good scope though, I see them being used a lot.

[Neil27]

12 minutes ago, Stu said:

You could look at something like this:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4964_TS-Optics-ED-102mm-f-7-Refractor-Telescope-with-2-5--R-P-focuser.html

It's not the best glass out there, being FPL-51 not FPL-53, but it would still be alot better than an achromatic scope and it has a decent focuser on it. Perhaps might be a nice compromise and would give you widefield as well as high power possibilities.

Mount wise, an AZ5 would likely do the job, but best on a sturdier tripod so the head only option would be best, and source perhaps a 1.75" stainless steel one separately.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe-alt-azimuth-mount.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-38-stainless-steel-tripod.html

Hmmm, I think I've just blown your budget a smidge.  Options would be drop to an 80mm scope, which probably wouldn't cut it as a cover all bases, or buy second hand which can be a good option, or compromise in another area e.g. get a 127mm mak and lose the widefield or a 120ST frac and get more CA/less good high power performance. Or increase the budget of course

 

Lol, yep budget well and truly smashed .... good effort ?

Although looking at the TS optics it certainly looks a mighty fine scope - is there an UK equivalent? This is probably my sweet spot, 4 inch refractor at the right f ratio. Reminds me of the old televue genesis ones I used to drool over as a lad.

[jetstream]

They are not for everyone but I must say that these little newts need very minor tweaks to the primary after many many trips and our secondary has never been touched. Good luck with your scope choice! Lots of fun.

[Neil27]

13 minutes ago, bomberbaz said:

Decent quality refractor that doesn't bust the bank and without too much CA, worth considering this one.

http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Telescopes-Opticstar.asp?p=0_10_1_1_54

I have one very similar to it and although there is some CA on planets and the moon, its not as bad as it could be. It offers great wide field views and is very portable, it even comes with it's own carry bag. 

Good shout Steve, like the 90mm version - maybe the focal length is a tad long but what are the optics like?

Never heard of them to be fair.

[John]

Second hand will give you more options, but you may need some patience.

For £500 on the used market you may be able to pick up an 102mm F/7 ED refractor and an AZ5 mount which would tick a lot of your boxes.

Something like my Vixen ED102SS F/6.5 (except it's not for sale !):

 

 

[Neil27]

2 minutes ago, John said:

Second hand will give you more options, but you may need some patience.

For £500 on the used market you may be able to pick up an 102mm F/7 ED refractor and an AZ5 mount which would tick a lot of your boxes.

 

I think John that would be ideal, and generally SH stuff is very well looked after.

I may put a wanted ad out there, and yes I have been known to be patient, sometimes ........

[Carbon Brush]

I fully agree with the idea of a used scope - whatever you buy.

First of all it gets more scope for your budget.

Second and equally important. If you don't like it, then usually you can sell it on without huge loss.

Third. You get a lot of flexibility on mixing scope/mount/eyepiece.

I have bought a few new scopes over the years but generally prefer to buy used.

Hope this helps, David.

[Neil27]

5 minutes ago, John said:

Second hand will give you more options, but you may need some patience.

For £500 on the used market you may be able to pick up an 102mm F/7 ED refractor and an AZ5 mount which would tick a lot of your boxes.

Something like my Vixen ED102SS F/6.5 (except it's not for sale !):

 

 

Yep your off my xmas card list now john .... lol

Great set up and its something like my ideal I'm striving for. No goto, just pretty decent optics and nice steady mount / tripod.

Bravo, thanks for sharing!

[vlaiv]

19 minutes ago, Neil27 said:

Lol, yep budget well and truly smashed .... good effort ?

Although looking at the TS optics it certainly looks a mighty fine scope - is there an UK equivalent? This is probably my sweet spot, 4 inch refractor at the right f ratio. Reminds me of the old televue genesis ones I used to drool over as a lad.

There actually was exactly the same scope (I believe) branded by Altair Astro - FPL51 glass - a bit of CA - not good for astrophotography, but quite usable for observing.

It looks like they don't sell it any more, but I've found review of it here:

https://www.altairastro.com/public/reviews/Starwave-102ED-Review-Sky-at-Night-Magazine-Issue-86-4_stars.pdf

Current Starwave 102ED is using FPL-53 glass and is probably more like these two:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9868_TS-Optics-PhotoLine-102mm-f-7-FPL-53-Doublet-Apo-with-2-5--Focuser.html

https://www.stellarvue.com/stellarvue-sv102-access-ed-apo-refractor-telescope/

(both same scopes, different branding), but all are above your budget.

If you have £500 budget then second hand Starwave 102ED with FPL-51 glass and mount (az4 or az5 class) should fit it.

 

[Stu]

14 hours ago, Neil27 said:

Lol, yep budget well and truly smashed .... good effort ?

Although looking at the TS optics it certainly looks a mighty fine scope - is there an UK equivalent? This is probably my sweet spot, 4 inch refractor at the right f ratio. Reminds me of the old televue genesis ones I used to drool over as a lad.

Don't worry about buying from TS, they are very reliable and have a good range of options. Shipping to the UK is no problem.

I do think that, as has been mentioned by a number of us, a used scope might be your best option.

Oh, and yes, the Genesis is a lovely old scope ;), not as good for planetary, and shows its age versus modern kit, but visually still there is little to rival its flat, widefield views. Not suggesting it is the right scope for you now, but hopefully nice to see.

[Neil27]

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

There actually was exactly the same scope (I believe) branded by Altair Astro - FPL51 glass - a bit of CA - not good for astrophotography, but quite usable for observing.

It looks like they don't sell it any more, but I've found review of it here:

https://www.altairastro.com/public/reviews/Starwave-102ED-Review-Sky-at-Night-Magazine-Issue-86-4_stars.pdf

Current Starwave 102ED is using FPL-53 glass and is probably more like these two:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9868_TS-Optics-PhotoLine-102mm-f-7-FPL-53-Doublet-Apo-with-2-5--Focuser.html

https://www.stellarvue.com/stellarvue-sv102-access-ed-apo-refractor-telescope/

(both same scopes, different branding), but all are above your budget.

If you have £500 budget then second hand Starwave 102ED with FPL-51 glass and mount (az4 or az5 class) should fit it.

 

Thanks Vlaiv that’s great info, looking at the Starwave that seems to be just what I’m after.

Ideally the current TS scope looks the current equivalent if bought brand new, but as many have suggested maybe just keep an eye on the second hand market.

Thank you for your input and advice.?

[Neil27]

And Stu, that is just cruel posting that picture ?

Gosh what a scope, if memory serves me right they were a fortune back in the late 80’s / 90’s!

Thanks for sharing 

[Stu]

20 minutes ago, Neil27 said:

And Stu, that is just cruel posting that picture ?

Gosh what a scope, if memory serves me right they were a fortune back in the late 80’s / 90’s!

Thanks for sharing 

My apologies Neil

I doubt they were cheap back then, but can be picked up for reasonable prices now, although they don't come up that often.