Cheap Eyepieces For 16” Dob??

[Paul73]

Hi Folks

For reasons that I won’t bore you with, I’ve had to sell all of my eyepieces except a partial set of TV Plossls 15,20,25, and now 11mm (thank you Alen). A good Baader 2.2x completes the lineup.

Happily. Astro gear has once again proved an excellent savings account! There can’t be many hobbies where you can use great gear for a couple of years and still get back exactly what you paid.

I was wondering  if I’m missing any bargain eyepieces that will live with f4. I do have a Parracor which can be used to ease the load.

Thoughts?

Paul

[John]

I think your TV plossls will do fine. They are tested down to F/4 at least. Generally bargain eyepieces and F/4 don't usually mix well though.

If you feel the need to go widefield the Maxvision SWA and UWA's seem to be about the best corrected in faster scopes that you can get at a reasonable price. Meade 5000's are the same thing. You will need to look out for them used now I think. The new Nirvana-ES 82's also seem to be well priced and are likely to offer decent fast scope performance as well:

https://www.harrisontelescopes.co.uk/acatalog/ovl16nirvana.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqJSvnu_E3wIVyrvtCh1dvwFfEAQYAiABEgKFi_D_BwE

I'd avoid the temptations of budget widefields such as GSO and Panaview's because I'm not sure even the Parracor will clean things up with those

[Moonshane]

With what you have you have all bases covered albeit at 'only' 50 degrees. As you only get about 2/3 of a degree with the 25mm you could maybe add a cheap 30-35mm wide field like a Skywatcher Aero or similar but it's not essential.

[Paul73]

Thanks Guys

I had guessed that proves the old adage of: Sharp, wide, low cost; chose any two! 

I’ve not seen the ES Nivana. Is the “ES” the same as Explore Sceintific?

The the MaxVisions are splendid eyepieces for the money at f5, But f4 is a step too far. I know that the Explore Sceintific and MaxVisions are supposed to be clones, but my unscientific observations see the ES clearly wining the 82° battle. It was much closer at 68°.

I’m down to only three dobs and a 70mm frac (the finderscope on the bigger dob). So it’s minimalist observing for me for a while! ? 

Paul

[estwing]

You're missing nothing...keep your money in your pocket!..

[Paul73]

3 minutes ago, estwing said:

You're missing nothing...keep your money in your pocket!..

That is good to know!

Especially as my pocket seams to have developed a hole....

Paul

[Charic]

Whereas I kept my Starguiders  in preference over the Delos, as I could not see any real improvement on my f/6,  I would suggest  some second hand Delos EPs would work  just fine on your scope, but there's no rush, just buy the ones your happy to pay for, set your limit, maybe even negotiate.

[Ricochet]

2 hours ago, Paul73 said:

I’ve not seen the ES Nivana. Is the “ES” the same as Explore Sceintific?

No, the model is the Nirvana-ES, with the ES designating the new eyecup/barrel design. I assume the manufacturer is still Barsta, the same as the Starguiders, Myriads etc. 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/ovl-nirvana-es-uwa-82-ultrawide-eyepieces.html

[Paul73]

The Nivanas look interesting. Thanks for the tip.

Re. Delos vs Starguider. The gap is noticeable at f5. “Bang per Buck” is a lot more subjective. 

I had the Delos 6,8,10,12 and 17.5. Sadly, they don’t do anything lower mag, so I had to make do with the 21mm Ethos.... For sub f5, it was a pretty tidy collection. Not sure that I’d by the big Ethos again due to the stratospheric cost for a small improvement over its rivals.

Paul

[Charic]

2 hours ago, Paul73 said:

Not sure that I’d by the big Ethos again due to the stratospheric cost for a small improvement over its rivals.

 

Is it just down to branding or is the Ethos really just  so superior?  I doubt it,  I'd imagine the image itself would look the same through any one of the top three Ethos, Delos  or Delite, but never having looked, I'll keep an open mind.

I'd like to look through one of their Delite eyepieces, a step down in afov against the 3 Delos I once owned,  but a step up, should my present eyepieces  not provide the goods on a faster scope.

[Paul73]

Ethos 21mm 100° gives a very very wide view. In fact it feels like you need to climb into the eyepiece and have a look around.... yes the image quality is good. But no better in the middle than any number of lesser priced offerings. ‘Immersive’ is an over used adjective when it comes to eyepiece marketing blurb, but it is the perfect word to describe the 21mm Ethos. Others try, but I’ve yet to view through anything that can quite match the correction across the whole field at 100°.

But, in the absence of money ? ? ?. I’ll still with the Plossl’s and maybe try a Nivana or two until the reappearance of Delos funds??

[Stu]

How about the ES 20mm or APM 20mm 100 degree? I don't have experience of them at f4 but others will I'm sure.

[Paul73]

Hi Stu

I’ve owned the ES 100° 20mm. I found that the field is not flat enough for comfortable viewing (different to field curvature - nicely corrected in this eyepiece). ie. stars come to focus at different points depending on the distance from the centre. For the money. It is a very good buy. I would buy again. Haven’t seen the APM offering though....

Paul

[John]

From what I've read here and elsewhere, the Lunt / APM 100 20mm is exceedingly close or equal to the Ethos 21mm in performance terms, for a whole lot less £'s.

If I was in 100 degree buying mode I'd be looking at the Lunt / APM 100's very seriously.

When I was buying 100's though I managed to get my Ethos's at very good prices on the used market and back then they were the only 100's available. Tele Vue certainly created a new market niche when they launched the Ethos range in 2007 and other brands have come forward to compete very well in there.

The other 100 degree eyepieces that I've used (ES, SW Nirvana and William Optics) have all struck me as being of excellent build and optical quality - they seemed to me to represent the best work that the manufacturers could muster and were definitely "flagship" products.

 

 

[Ricochet]

14 hours ago, Paul73 said:

I found that the field is not flat enough for comfortable viewing (different to field curvature - nicely corrected in this eyepiece). ie. stars come to focus at different points depending on the distance from the centre.

That is the definition of field curvature, so the eyepiece must be well corrected for something else, rectilinear distortion perhaps?

[Paul73]

I stand corrected (sorry couldn’t resist..)

I always thought that field curvature is when the image apears bent as if stretched onto a concave surface. It is good to get the right terminology!

thanks

Paul

[jetstream]

It is interesting to note that not all people see distortion levels to the same degree. Mr Merlitz gives a fine explanation in his works.

http://holgermerlitz.de/globe/distortion.html

[Louis D]

18 hours ago, Paul73 said:

Hi Stu

I’ve owned the ES 100° 20mm. I found that the field is not flat enough for comfortable viewing (different to field curvature - nicely corrected in this eyepiece). ie. stars come to focus at different points depending on the distance from the centre. For the money. It is a very good buy. I would buy again. Haven’t seen the APM offering though....

Paul

Interesting that I've never heard of the 20mm ES-100 having field curvature before.  If you insist on an having absolutely flat field corrected for astigmatism to the edge, the 17mm ES-92 might be worth looking into for you.  You'd give up some field but gain some magnification in return.  It is incredibly heavy, however; so balance might become an issue.

[Charic]

13 minutes ago, jetstream said:

It is interesting to note that not all people see distortion levels to the same degree.

It doesn't bother me! I'm almost always on axis when observing.

[jetstream]

1 minute ago, Charic said:

It doesn't bother me! I'm almost always on axis when observing.

I observe on axis as well but interesting things happen when panning with some eyepieces, espc some widefields.

[Charic]

The only wide field I possess now is my Panaview.
I'm more than happy with my 60° Ep's, one of the reasons I stopped collecting  Delos Ep's.

Most of my targets looked the same using either Delos/Starguider but I decided that the Starguiders were better  value for my needs, and the Delos did not wow me whilst  viewing through them ( they do  wow! when you see how big they are) but on an f/6 scope, any  improvement to performance was not noticeable from my viewpoint.

[Paul73]

On 30/12/2018 at 15:08, Louis D said:

It is incredibly heavy, however; so balance might become an issue.

Don’t worry. Mine is a heavy old Dob with an industrial strength focuser. I have to pop a claw hammer onto the secondary end when using little eyepieces. Good for balance and for protection (those hedgehogs can be very intimidating).

I haven’t tried the ES 100° 20mm with a Parracor. So maybe I am expecting too much.

So much for the ‘cheap’ part of the thread!?. At least I’ll know what to buy when the financial climate thaws a little.

 

[Paul73]

I’ve just checked the price of the ES 100° 20mm..... over £400 !!!! They can foxtrot oscar !!!! (Not a reflection on Flo. I assume they make an industry standard markup).

I was thinking of giving one another go.....the Lunt/APM is suddenly looking good!

 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Paul73 said:

I was thinking of giving one another go.....the Lunt/APM is suddenly looking good!

I have the APM 20mm for similar reasons but doubt you would be disappointed with it. Lighter too I think.

[alan potts]

Its been cloudy here for so long I have forgotten what gear I have. New Years eve cleared at 11.30pm to revial a beautifull clear sky then 30 minutes later thousands of fireworks made a complete mess of any chances.

Alan