another 'newb' needing advice....:)

[tooth_dr]

2 hours ago, thekwango said:

hi and thanks for the welcome and reply. sadly astro clubs in Northern Ireland seem to be very limited (can only find 1 and it convenes miles away)

 

That is a shame you haven’t had much success with any astro clubs in NI.

I’m involved in the Irish Astronomical Association (I’m on the committee) and we hold events throughout the province.

If you want to drop me a PM with your details I’m sure I could get you a look at kit.  We have a 127mm mak we use for outreach events, as well as a big SCT and some small refractors.

[Charic]

On 21/12/2018 at 12:58, thekwango said:

hello all.........a few years back i was bought a cheapo brasser telescope as a pressie which let me see the moon in great detail and i was blown away (even considering the limitations of the scope)...........

 

On 25/12/2018 at 14:43, thekwango said:

............ coupled with the fact i want to try and introduce my eldest girl might make the EQ's more 'awkward' (not the right word but i'm sure you know what i mean) 

i

If you still have the Bresser, would your eldest not be blown away, as you were, from your own recollection.
I like the first two responses to this thread. The 150P  Skyliner Dobsonian, or better still the 200P Skyliner will really blow your socks off when looking at the Moon. Jupiter will be about the size of a small pea, but when conditions allow, the rings will be visible as are Jupiter's moon shadows, when a transit occurs? 

[thekwango]

6 hours ago, Charic said:

 

If you still have the Bresser, would your eldest not be blown away, as you were, from your own recollection.
I like the first two responses to this thread. The 150P  Skyliner Dobsonian, or better still the 200P Skyliner will really blow your socks off when looking at the Moon. Jupiter will be about the size of a small pea, but when conditions allow, the rings will be visible as are Jupiter's moon shadows, when a transit occurs? 

yea i have tried the bresser with my little but it is a really low end unit. bump it at all and all your seeing is a whiteish blur, so she sort of got fed up!

[thekwango]

7 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

 

That is a shame you haven’t had much success with any astro clubs in NI.

I’m involved in the Irish Astronomical Association (I’m on the committee) and we hold events throughout the province.

If you want to drop me a PM with your details I’m sure I could get you a look at kit.  We have a 127mm mak we use for outreach events, as well as a big SCT and some small refractors.

pm sent....very kind of you.

[Charic]

30 minutes ago, thekwango said:

....bump it at all and all your seeing is a whiteish blur, so she sort of got fed up!

Probably reached the optical limits of the scope  or its fragility, and  not forgetting the seeing conditions.
Even my scope is limited by the seeing conditions, but when its not so good, I back off the power, or  even go back inside.

 

[thekwango]

9 hours ago, Charic said:

Probably reached the optical limits of the scope  or its fragility, and  not forgetting the seeing conditions.
Even my scope is limited by the seeing conditions, but when its not so good, I back off the power, or  even go back inside.

 

definitely the fragility. a mouse sneezing half a mile away upsets the damn thing!

[Louis D]

15 hours ago, thekwango said:

yea i have tried the bresser with my little but it is a really low end unit. bump it at all and all your seeing is a whiteish blur, so she sort of got fed up!

I'm assuming it's the mount that can't hold the scope steady.  That's why Dobs rule for stability compared to low-end GEMs.  You can lightly hold onto the edge of the tube while observing to gently nudge it for tracking with very little vibration being transferred to the image.

If it's the tripod not dampening the vibrations, trying adding vibration dampening pads under each foot.

[thekwango]

13 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I'm assuming it's the mount that can't hold the scope steady.  That's why Dobs rule for stability compared to low-end GEMs.  You can lightly hold onto the edge of the tube while observing to gently nudge it for tracking with very little vibration being transferred to the image.

If it's the tripod not dampening the vibrations, trying adding vibration dampening pads under each foot.

hi, yea it's just a wobbly cheapo scope in general. i can manage it fine and even managed to hook a lumpy dslr on to it but the little one struggled and just kept telling me it was broken! 

[thekwango]

another quick question for all the helpful folk out there;

is there any massive difference in the 2 scopes below - outside of one of them being wifi. or to put it another way does the wifi setup justify the ~ 70 quid extra? or would i be better going with the cheaper one and putting that 70 notes to something else (battery pack, eye pieces?)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az-gti.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/skywatcher-skymax-127-synscan-az-goto.html

[Geoff Lister]

The AZ-GTI is the newer design, with the releasable clutches for the 2 axes, so can be used in manual mode, or if powered, pointed manually and still know where it is pointing. It is designed to be controlled by a companion app., running on a smartphone or tablet. It can also be controlled by an optional Synscan handset (£145 + £21 for the interface cable).

The Synscan mount is the earlier design, with fixed clutches, so requiring power to make any movement, and is controlled with the handset. I have not found this to be a serious restriction in normal operation.

I have 2 of the Synscan systems (UK & France), and 2 Celestron setups, with essentially the same mechanicals but different controls. (1) The Skyprodigy has a built-in Starsense camera, so, once it is properly dark, it can self-align. This works well most of the time, but I can do a Synscan "Brightest Star" alignment roughly 45 minutes earlier at dusk. (2) The Cosmos 90GT WiFi (can be used with an optional [non Synscan compatible] handset), uses another companion app. on a smartphone or tablet. I use my Samsung tablet, but have found the whole setup difficult to use. Perhaps the AZ-GTI is more user-friendly. I found it difficult to locate and use the tablet screen's virtual up/down/left/right buttons, whilst looking through the eyepiece. I prefer the tactile feedback of "real" buttons. I also found, on a couple of occasions, that the WiFi link would drop out, the tablet would re-connect to my home WiFi hub; and the mount would slew at full speed, requiring me to cut power to avoid damage (I subsequently added a power switch to the mount).

I do most of my observing from my back patio, so I generally use a plug-top 12V 2A supply. For portable operation, I tend to use a series pair of 6V 2600mAh NiMH battery packs borrowed from my radio-controlled model boats. These have plenty of spare capacity after an evening's observing.

The Skymax system comes with a holder for 8-off AA alkaline cells (an expensive power option), similar to the 10-cell holder that I made for the lower-voltage NiMH cells (bottom right). The batteries fit in the little satchel (shown behind batteries, bottom left) supplied with the mount, and I added a stick-on plastic hook to the mount so that the satchel hangs off the mount, moving with it and avoiding cord-wrap. The heavy-duty white bell flex added to the mains PSU's output lead shows up well in the dark, so reducing the trip hazard.

Geoff

[happy-kat]

Yes there is a massive difference. The az-gti can with the firmware update, be used in EQ mode on a wedge such as the star adventurer wedge, be used for a start into astro imaging even guiding is being done, though you would not use the 127mm for that but a camera and lens.

Edit: I should have clarified the EQ mode allows for extended exposure times outside the possible imaging capabilities of an altaz tracking mount.

Edited December 31, 2018 by happy-kat

[Geoff Lister]

5 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Yes there is a massive difference. The az-gti can with the firmware update, be used in EQ mode on a wedge such as the star adventurer wedge, be used for a start into astro imaging even guiding is being done, though you would not use the 127mm for that but a camera and lens.

I have found that my Skymax 127 with Synscan's tracking (in its Az/Alt mode) is fine for 8-second D3200 stills, webcam videos of Moon, Jupiter & Saturn, and with my GP-CAM using SharpCap's live stacking on my laptop, is fine for the likes of M57.

Geoff

[happy-kat]

If you are patient then I've seen the older style come up second hand on here and a 127mm mak only two days ago.

[thekwango]

cheers again for all the replies. there really is a mass of brilliant and helpful folk on here. regarding the 2 scopes, the thing that jumped straight out at me was the bit about operating the wifi model with an app while looking down an eyepiece. i've had to use apps on a phone/tablet 'blind' before and it's horrible - at least for me. i need that haptic feedback so that pretty much rules that scope out as i don't think i'd want to buy it and then go looking to buy the synscan handset. 

[happy-kat]

The handsets do come up second hand for around £70 occasionally.

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, Geoff Lister said:

It is designed to be controlled by a companion app., running on a smartphone or tablet. It can also be controlled by an optional Synscan handset (£145 + £21 for the interface cable).

I picture the app no longer being supported 5 years down the road and not being compatible with the newer OS releases.  This then forces you to avoid upgrading your tablet's OS to maintain backward compatibility with it.  I've run into this issue repeatedly with various PC peripherals.  It sort of "encourages" you to buy newer peripherals, or in this case, mounts.  As a result, I've still got 98SE and XP systems still tucked away around the house.

[Geoff Lister]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

I picture the app no longer being supported 5 years down the road and not being compatible with the newer OS releases

I have a "Virtuoso" app on my tablet. This enables my Skywatcher Virtuoso 90 mount to be controlled using the tablet's Bluetooth interface, and a relatively simple, and cheap, home-built, Bluetooth serial dongle plugged into the (Synscan) handset socket. Recently, Skywatcher produced a WiFi dongle, at over 4 times the cost of the Bluetooth equivalent, together with a "Synscan" app that does not recognise Bluetooth. The "Virtuoso" app was then withdrawn from the Google Play Store, and I cannot locate a legitimate means of continuing to use the Bluetooth control when my tablet reaches the end of its useful life.

I have been a customer of some very professional test labs, running early (W 98) versions of Windows on their test equipment control computers, because they could not get hold of plug-in ISA card drivers that would work on NT underpinnings (2000, XP, Vista, W 7, etc.). The test data was then transferred to more modern PCs to produce the regulatory reports.

One of the main reasons that Concorde flights ceased was because spares for the electronic components used in the avionics were unobtainable, and the cost of re-design and airworthiness qualification with modern replacements could not be justified commercially.

My slide rule does not require updates, as long as I accept that 4 x 5 = (roughly) 19.98?

Geoff

[dannybgoode]

16 hours ago, thekwango said:

cheers again for all the replies. there really is a mass of brilliant and helpful folk on here. regarding the 2 scopes, the thing that jumped straight out at me was the bit about operating the wifi model with an app while looking down an eyepiece. i've had to use apps on a phone/tablet 'blind' before and it's horrible - at least for me. i need that haptic feedback so that pretty much rules that scope out as i don't think i'd want to buy it and then go looking to buy the synscan handset. 

The WiFi unit is available as a separate module for Skywatcher mounts that do not have WiFi built in including their top end mounts. 

Just about every review I’ve read and every piece of feedback from people on here who have upgraded their mounts accordingly suggests the app is far easier to use than the handset and that it the GOTO is more accurate.  Have a look at some of the posts on here and you’ll see most people think it’s pretty revolutionary and would not dream of going back to the handset.

I can’t think why you would need to try and look at the app at the same time as trying to use the scope except for initial alignment. But then that’s no different than using the handset. Once aligned you look at either device (phone or handset) to select an object, scope skews to it then tracks it. Further interaction with the device is not needed until you decide to look at another object. 

As for the app becoming obsolete this doesn’t really matter as the WiFi interface works with third party apps and can be connected to from a pc or Mac instead of a phone. 

I’ve ordered the standalone dongle for my AZ EQ6 GT as honestly the handset is somewhat cumbersome with a fairly horrible user interface and given the overwhelmingly positive reviews I can’t see me missing the handset. 

You’ve had great advice otherwise though and I’d definitely keep an eye on secondhand kit coming up either on here or astrobuysell. Astronomers generally look after their kit and buying secondhand can save you a good amount. Both my scopes were bought used and both are in excellent condition. 

[thekwango]

3 hours ago, dannybgoode said:

The WiFi unit is available as a separate module for Skywatcher mounts that do not have WiFi built in including their top end mounts. 

Just about every review I’ve read and every piece of feedback from people on here who have upgraded their mounts accordingly suggests the app is far easier to use than the handset and that it the GOTO is more accurate.  Have a look at some of the posts on here and you’ll see most people think it’s pretty revolutionary and would not dream of going back to the handset.

I can’t think why you would need to try and look at the app at the same time as trying to use the scope except for initial alignment. But then that’s no different than using the handset. Once aligned you look at either device (phone or handset) to select an object, scope skews to it then tracks it. Further interaction with the device is not needed until you decide to look at another object. 

As for the app becoming obsolete this doesn’t really matter as the WiFi interface works with third party apps and can be connected to from a pc or Mac instead of a phone. 

I’ve ordered the standalone dongle for my AZ EQ6 GT as honestly the handset is somewhat cumbersome with a fairly horrible user interface and given the overwhelmingly positive reviews I can’t see me missing the handset. 

You’ve had great advice otherwise though and I’d definitely keep an eye on secondhand kit coming up either on here or astrobuysell. Astronomers generally look after their kit and buying secondhand can save you a good amount. Both my scopes were bought used and both are in excellent condition. 

Ah ok. So when to slew to an object you don’t have any ‘fine tuning’ to do with the handset/app?  

I’d assumed (wrongly!) that with GOTO the scope would slew to the general direction and you’d then have to fine tune the positioning while looking though the eyepiece. 

With that not being the case then the WiFi model I linked may actually be worth the extra. 

[dannybgoode]

14 minutes ago, thekwango said:

Ah ok. So when to slew to an object you don’t have any ‘fine tuning’ to do with the handset/app?  

I’d assumed (wrongly!) that with GOTO the scope would slew to the general direction and you’d then have to fine tune the positioning while looking though the eyepiece. 

With that not being the case then the WiFi model I linked may actually be worth the extra. 

Assuming the initial alignment is good you should find the target pretty much bang central every time. 

If fine tuning is required it will be very slight and (IMO at least) no more difficult with the large ‘buttons’ on the app than on the handset. 

[thekwango]

On 01/01/2019 at 11:25, dannybgoode said:

Assuming the initial alignment is good you should find the target pretty much bang central every time. 

If fine tuning is required it will be very slight and (IMO at least) no more difficult with the large ‘buttons’ on the app than on the handset. 

guess i should probably download the app and actually look at it before making a decision on it's usefulness. i assume that it can be downloaded and 'looked' at even with a scope to connect to.

[happy-kat]

The app can be run in emulator mode, if you search you will find out how.

Well the Android version can.

You don't have a wifi dongle afaik so can't connect to your mount.

Edited January 2, 2019 by happy-kat

[dannybgoode]

1 hour ago, thekwango said:

guess i should probably download the app and actually look at it before making a decision on it's usefulness. i assume that it can be downloaded and 'looked' at even with a scope to connect to.

Yep you can download the app. It’s simple but very functional. Particularly if you have an Android device it’s dead straightforward to use a third party app instead but it is possible with iOS also. 

[happy-kat]

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/299564-synscan-app-function-list/?tab=comments#comment-3281919

How to put into emulator mode on mobile device.

[thekwango]

3 hours ago, dannybgoode said:

Yep you can download the app. It’s simple but very functional. Particularly if you have an Android device it’s dead straightforward to use a third party app instead but it is possible with iOS also. 

 

3 hours ago, happy-kat said:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/299564-synscan-app-function-list/?tab=comments#comment-3281919

How to put into emulator mode on mobile device.

perfect, thanks for that ?