Help and advice needed with refractor purchase

[shearwater]

Hello, I'm looking for some advice on which refractor to buy. I  currently own a skywatcher heritage130 Newtonian but for practical reasons (ease of set-up, transport etc) I rarely get to use it hence my interest in buying a portable refractor, one that will at least fit in a small car. I bought some good lenses for the skywatcher heritage130 (pentax zoom, televue Barlow)  and I was wondering if these will be wasted on a budget refractor and perhaps I should spend a little more. One of the scopes I was interested in is a Bresser Classic 70, very low cost and well-reviewed-would these lenses transform it? Or, should I spend a bit more on something else. The  budget would be up to £200-250 which I know is not a lot..............any recommendations / suggestions would be really helpful The criteria are:

1. Relatively portable

2. Capable of allowing enough light to view Saturn, Jupiter and moons , Orion nebula, Andromeda Galaxy with some degree of clarity, 

3.. Suitable for occasional terrestrial use

4. Good build quality, not too plasticky (which is another reason the Bresser appeals)

5. Budget consideration

Thanks in advance

Andrew

 

 

[vlaiv]

Maybe wait a bit more for first light report, but this seems like nice scope:

And there is always Skywatcher ST80 - very liked short achromat with a bit more aperture.

 

[shearwater]

Thanks for that. The opticstar 80  does look very good but by the time I've added the mount and tripod it'll be way above my very limited budget. The skywatcher I own has a dobsonian mount  so any mount and tripod would be added extras. I've just had another look at various posts about the Skywatcher ST80-yes, definitely worth considering. Is it likely that if  I wait til post christmas there will be bargains to be had?  

[vlaiv]

For £200-250 range I would consider this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-80-tabletop-telescope.html

and

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-az-pronto-alt-azimuth-mount-tripod.html

That version of ST80 comes with included 90 diagonal which you will need. Plain OTA version comes with 45 degrees prism - that is something you should skip for astronomical observation (ok for terrestrial). It also comes with RDF which is more handy on such small scope than 30mm finder. You get table top EQ1 as bonus for just a few extra £.

AZ Pronto is light weight, holds up to 3kg scopes and has good tripod. It has slow motion control as well. Probably better alternative to AZ3 mount. AZ4 would be too heavy but you can look at AZ5 if you can stretch your budget a bit more.

Going back to your original post, if planets are important aspect, then longer focal length instrument would suit you better. This however has impact on both portability and size of required mount. It will certainly drive cost up. If you want to minimize CA from these scopes - longer focal length is also good thing, or going with more expensive ED doublets. In any case, 80mm is the class of scope you should be looking at (it is hard to find smaller aperture other than beginner scopes which come with basic focuser and accessories, and lack that quality instrument feel, or very expensive offerings - seems like no middle ground).

[SIDO]

I purchased the Omegon ST80 because I can't get the Skywatcher here in the states but it is essentially the same scope, with a short scope mounted dovetail and a cheaper alt az tripod like the one I'm using it would be a light weight ez grab and go mine even with all my excess still only comes in at 13 pounds tripod 2" eyepiece and all. 

Be prepaired to re align the focuser with the center objective to get the best out of this scope as even though I replaced the focuser the original was way out of alignment when delivered and I also have seen another member here state the same issue. If you have a laser collomation tool for your current scope it can be used for the ST80.

Other than that it's an ok scope for me using it as a "wide field" instrument primarily...lives up to it's reputation for that very well.

Best of LucK?

[shearwater]

Thanks for that. The opticstar 80  does look very good but by the time I've added the mount and tripod it'll be way above my very limited budget. The skywatcher I own has a dobsonian mount  so any mount and tripod would be added extras. I've just had another look at various posts about the Skywatcher ST80-yes, definitely worth considering. Is it likely that if  I wait til post christmas there will be bargains to be had?  

[Nyctimene]

Owning a Heritage 130 P for now 18 months, I cannot quite understand your problems with it. It's extremely compact and lightweight, can be carried around with one hand, and fits nicely in the trunk of my tiny car, a Seat Mii (= VW Up!). And it's light grasping capability is considerably better than that of an 80 mm frac (goes more than 1 mag deeper); not to speak of the images completely free of chromatic aberration. And with a 24 - 26 mmf eyepiece you get a field of view of about 2.5 - not much behind a small frac. Here is a comparison of the Heritage with a 5" f/12 frac; have a read:

http://neilenglish.net/5-inch-shootout-5-f-12-refractor-vs-a-5-1-f-5-reflector/#comment-928461

I'd consider to put the Heritage on a AltAz mount, e.g. the Vixen Porta II, for more convenience, when observing seated, and tracking (no own experience with that), instead of buying another smaller scope, that will not quite deliver on planets and DSO's. Ok; terrestial viewing.... but there are binos for that purpose!

Just my  2 cts..

Stephan

[shearwater]

Sorry,  Sido and Vlaiv, another question as I've been looking at quite a few and my head's swimming. I wish there was one definitive scope that exactly fits the bill-perhaps there is-if it's £100 or so over budget then I'm now thinking along the lines of reaching for the credit card . Like many people, I think I tend to get thrown by a wealth of choice. 

[happy-kat]

The heritage 130p optical tube can come off the mount and instead be used on a tripod even a decent photo tripod and a clamp and ball head.

Agree that it is not the best suited for terrestrial viewing but I think I'd look for a pair of second hand binoculars there or the 10*50 lidl sometimes do for £16.

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, shearwater said:

Sorry,  Sido and Vlaiv, another question as I've been looking at quite a few and my head's swimming. I wish there was one definitive scope that exactly fits the bill-perhaps there is-if it's £100 or so over budget then I'm now thinking along the lines of reaching for the credit card . Like many people, I think I tend to get thrown by a wealth of choice. 

Maybe there is a scope that would best suit your needs - just specify your needs and priorities and I'm confident that you will have good suggestions (with explanation of strengths and weaknesses) to choose from.

[happy-kat]

Why not list what it is that you need something to do?

We are unclear what your issues are that you are looking to fix  by changing telescope.

[shearwater]

Sorry if it was unclear, I thought I mentioned the criteria in my first post but on re-reading it I can see it was a little vague, but a bit of background to this may make more sense of the question and  also explain to Nictimene (thanks for the article BTW- really interesting)) my quest for the perfect budget refractor!    I was a birdwatcher long before I developed an interest in astronomy so of course I have and have always had good bins and spotting scopes so I suppose it would be true to say that I'm actually looking for a celestial scope that can also give good close-up views of distant wildlife. I live in Bulgaria a lot of the year and the scope would be located on a balcony so should a bird appear on the hill opposite or a raptor nest in the canopy of the woodland which is actually at lower elevation than the house I live in, I'd be able to id / watch it and when night falls skywatching-there's little in the way of light pollution where I am and occasionally I take trips into mountain areas , so the convenience of a refractor is what appeals-no warming up, no collimation and real portability, the reflector is basically a bit of a hassle for what I want

[dweller25]

@shearwater

Have you considered a Maksutov ? ......

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-102-ota.html

Although I think your 130P will be hard to beat in your budget.

[Ags]

I have both the ST80 and the Skymax 102 and I would say the ST80 would give very good views of M31 (from your original list of targets) but would be very poor at planets because of chromatic aberration. The SkyMax 102 would be good at planets but is not a widefield scope at all as its maximum field of view is about 1.2 degrees.

A SkyWatcher ED72 would be just about in your budget and would be good for widefield targets and higher magnifications. Of course the aperture is limited.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/sky-watcher-evostar-72ed-ds-pro-ota.html

[Ricochet]

Which spotting scope(s) do you currently own? If you have really had good spotting scopes then an achromatic refractor will disappoint terrestrially so you'll have to look at an ED frac or Maksutov which are both more expensive. 

Astronomically, I'm not sure that you'll gain anything by changing.

[vlaiv]

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/sky-watcher-skymax-102-az-pronto.html

In that price range, in my opinion, best package to do wide life + astronomy. Only thing that it will not do is wide field views like whole Andromeda. It will be really portable, at this size almost no cool down issues (you will have to wait about 15-20mins if you keep it at room temperature and decide to go out in temperatures around 0 - for high power views at least), you can pack it into rucksack and it comes with erect diagonal for terrestrial viewing.

It will outperform 80mm achromat on all but wide field targets. To put it into binocular terms, maximum field of view of this scope is 21m at 1000m, so half that of regular binoculars (40/1000).

Problem with achromatic scope is that in order to be portable it needs to be short tube, or fast. Fast achromats will have quite a bit of false color - this will severely limit your ability to do planetary work. It might also impact terrestrial views (not have done terrestrial observing so I can't say by how much, but during day, blue/purple fringing tends to be very noticeable in high contrast areas).

All of this means that if you want 80mm scope, it needs to be at least F/7.5 or better F/10 or higher - but that means long tube. Long tube is harder to mount because of arm momentum. You need stronger mount - again weight and less portability. Other option is to look at ED short scopes. These will be able to provide you with good views of everything (within their aperture limit) - but cost more than your budget. SW Evostar ED72 is one example, here are some other options:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p8637_TS-Optics-PHOTOLINE-80-mm-f-7-FPL53-Apo---2-5--Focuser.html

But I would recommend AZ5 mount for that one.

Back onto achromats if you are still interested in those, here is alternative to ST80 - a bit slower 80mm frac (but not too long):

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7935_TS-Optics-80-600mm-Refractor-Teleskope---optical-tube-with-rings.html

Very affordable but comes "bare", so you need to add diagonal (or erecting prism for terrestrial, or both), dovetail bar and a mount. It weights in at 1.5kg so AZ-Pronto will do the job.

 

[shearwater]

I like the look of the TS-Optics Starscope 80, in fact I'm going to sleep on it, but this could well be the answer and the within the easily affordable range too. In answer to Ricochet, I kind of like old-school scopes. I've got a couple of Bushnell Spacemasters with screw in lenses. Also got a Helios zoom scope, it's got ED glass, fine focus etc etc It's a recent acquisition but may not be a keeper, lacking the build quality of the spacemaster and they can be bought cheaply- greatly under-valued in my opinion. Binoculars are zen-ray summit 8x42, but have had several vortex's and Zeiss (east-german post-war models) Thankyou all for your help, I'll let you know how I get on but the TS 80 looks like it'll fit the bill

[SIDO]

For a spotter the ST80 is a pretty awesome little scope, I live on a peninsula between two large water bodies with the whole area designated a wildlife refuge, I watch the eagles fish almost every morning with it and have yet to see blue and purple eagles. My views are clear for 10's of miles but most wildlife is not viewable past a 1000 yards due too thermals not the scope so past that 1000 yards not much magnification can be utilized "Nature" of the game so to speak. With any achromat especially a short focus one collomation is critical or all kinds of ugly aborations will be amplified. Really absolutly no fun chasing eagles with a maksutov as within that 1000 yards the field is too narrow, a static finch on a branch can quite easily be tracked though.

 

[Alan64]

The perception of chromatic-aberration

On 13/12/2018 at 06:54, shearwater said:

Hello, I'm looking for some advice on which refractor to buy. I  currently own a skywatcher heritage130 Newtonian but for practical reasons (ease of set-up, transport etc) I rarely get to use it hence my interest in buying a portable refractor, one that will at least fit in a small car. I bought some good lenses for the skywatcher heritage130 (pentax zoom, televue Barlow)  and I was wondering if these will be wasted on a budget refractor and perhaps I should spend a little more. One of the scopes I was interested in is a Bresser Classic 70, very low cost and well-reviewed-would these lenses transform it? Or, should I spend a bit more on something else. The  budget would be up to £200-250 which I know is not a lot..............any recommendations / suggestions would be really helpful The criteria are:

1. Relatively portable

2. Capable of allowing enough light to view Saturn, Jupiter and moons , Orion nebula, Andromeda Galaxy with some degree of clarity, 

3.. Suitable for occasional terrestrial use

4. Good build quality, not too plasticky (which is another reason the Bresser appeals)

5. Budget consideration

Thanks in advance

Andrew

 

 

Regarding the Bresser 70/350, the focusser's housing, quite possibly the chromed drawtube itself, and the dew-shield, are most likely of plastic, especially at that price-point.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Meade-Instruments-Infinity-Refractor-Telescope/dp/B00LY8JWB0

The perception of chromatic aberration differs from one person to the next.  I have an 80mm f/6 achromat, and I see the false-colour.  It all depends on one's eyes.  To play it safe, I never suggest an achromat shorter, faster, than f/6.5.

If you point an f/5 achromat at brighter objects, the false-colour will smear and blur the images; and whether you perceive the aberration, or not.  Achromats at f/5 are for low-power, wide-field observations of the dimmer deep-sky-objects and deep-sky vistas.  The brighter objects are easier to find and see.  The planets require considerable magnification to see them well, 150x and higher.  It's rather difficult to reach that with a fast achromat.  They're simply not suitable for such.  But these kits are...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-90-az3.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-90-eq2.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-90-eq3-2.html

In addition, the vast majority of deep-sky objects are small, too, and benefit from the higher powers as well.  A fast achromat would serve for the galaxy in Andromeda, the Pleiades, and the populated star-fields of the Milky Way; and that's about it.  For everything else, a longer achromat is best; the longer the better.    

[shearwater]

A quick update and just to say thanks to all here who have been so generous with your advice..........after further prevarication I finally settled on a pre-owned Orion Astroview 100mm EQ - F/6 which will be delivered after christmas but before the new year. Will let you know my initial impressions when it arrives    Andrew

Th