Couriers and astro' equipment.

[Alfian]

I know this is thorny subject and has been discussed before  but I am just having a beef. I noticed on the long running thread about the ED150 that packaging has been improved to withstand rough handling by couriers but I thought I'd relate a neighbours experience. He was waiting in for a delivery, saw the van arrive but before he could even get to the door the driver had taken the large box and thrown it down six stone steps where it landed at the door, got back in the van and drove away. Fortunately there was nothing breakable in the box and, I assume, it didn't need a signature. Generally most astro equipment posted is tracked and needs a signature but I take it as giving some indication of the "handling" that parcels get as it was with one of the supposedly "better" couriers. My neighbour did lodge a complaint.

I recently put my ED100 up for sale. I could have sold it twice over if I could have got a courier whose insurance would have covered it for damage at anything like an acceptable cost to the buyer, or even  for that matter sharing the cost. Some couriers will insure telescopes but in the small print it only covers loss not damage. I found one courier, (and I'm fairly sure it was the one that played netball with my neighbours parcel) that would cover damage but it cost the proverbial arm and a leg.  So what do you do? Some items are fairly bullet proof but many are not so do you limit a sale to collection only or go for it and say a prayer?

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Alfian

[Carbon Brush]

At work, over years of shipping and using various carriers we came to a conclusion.
Carrier insurance is not worth the paper it is printed on.

I have had arguments with TNT in particular who considered anything secondhand to be worth its scrap weight value only!

For work, we have shipping insurance as part of the general company insurance. Never using the carrier insurance.

For home use, I take the risk of breakage.

When sending for work or home, packing materials and thickness always assume the item will be dropped a metre onto a concrete floor. Which it sometimes is.

When receiving parcels at work, we always photograph (before opening) anything that looks abused and insist on marking the carriers document to this effect.

The attached pics show two packages recently delivered to work by UKMail, now part of DHL. Draw your own conclusions about carrier care.

 

 

[Alfian]

Thanks "CB". Good (in one sense) to get that kind of perspective ad sometimes I get that "is it me" kind of feeling. Insurance wise I'd come to the same conclusion as you. Not good, and frustrating.

[Louis D]

It must be something with European shippers.  I had an eyepiece sent from Germany to the US, and the box looked even worse than the second photo.  Multiple corners were crushed in.  The retailer had only put air cushions around the eyepiece box, pushing it to one corner.  Luckily, that corner escaped major damage.  That, and the eyepiece was wrapped in factory bubble wrap inside its box.

I've never had a US domestically shipped box destroyed like that.  Either we use stronger boxes or handle them more carefully.

Most US shippers won't honor their damage insurance unless they, or one of their licensed associates, does the boxing.  Otherwise, they'll blame improper customer packaging every time.  Even when you use their associates to pack it, you'll still have to fight them for compensation because they'll try to say it was fully depreciated in value to zero dollars.

@Alfian Were the alternate offers from the US or mainland Europe?  Britain is so small compared to the US, I can't imagine not driving halfway to meet a buyer.  London to Liverpool is only 220 miles.  That won't even get me out of Texas.  For big ticket, heavy items, most Americans are willing to drive at least 200 miles to a halfway point.  I drove 200 miles to pick up my used 15" Dob years ago and turned it into a nice daytrip.  I've seen offers of 400 miles or meeting at the next big star party to finish the deal on really expensive items like AP scopes or 20"+ custom Dobs.

[Sunshine]

Oh it’s not only European shippers, when Fedex delivered my Lunt LS60 they not only left it on my doorstep for the taking the entire day till I got home, but the box was caved in and broken open proper on the one side. I just about threw a hissy fit!. 

[johninderby]

Automated sorting equipment used by the bigger couriers is one of the major causes of damage. The packages get fired from point to point and slammed arpund a lot. Some couriers do offer an extra care option with everything being sorted by hand. Of course the low wages paid to drivers does mean a lot don’t care how they handle stuff.

Ran a mail prder business for many years and the advice I was given was to assume the package will be given to a gorrila who will jump up and down on it, slam it against the walls and then play football with it.  ?  

Louis D  -  Fuel is so dirt cheap in the US that long drives aren’t that expensive. However in the UK fuel is eye wateringly expensive and becomes a real factor. Also takes twicw as long to drive an equivelent distance as in the US.

 

[Demonperformer]

Also, there are people in the UK who do not actually own a car!

[johninderby]

1 minute ago, Demonperformer said:

Also, there are people in the UK who do not actually own a car!

Particularily those that live in London.  ?

[FLO]

5 minutes ago, johninderby said:

.... the advice I was given was to assume the package will be given to a gorrila who will jump up and down on it, slam it against the walls and then play football with it.  ?  

That was good advice ? 

Steve 

[johninderby]

Just now, FLO said:

That was good advice ? 

Steve 

Yes it was. Not a single damage claim in twenty years. ?

[Demonperformer]

5 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Particularily those that live in London.  ?

Don't live in London - just can't justify the extortionate cost of car ownership now I am no longer working.

[Grotemobile]

I order a lot of stuff from E Bay. The amount of stuff I have received that is damaged beyond use.

I end up taking a picture & showing the seller. It then has to go back. I have had no problems

with goods ordered from Amazon.  Reluctant to order stuff off the Bay now. ?

[Alfian]

@Louis D, I have no problem in travelling a "reasonable" distance to meet up with a potential buyer/seller and have done so in the past. As has been already said, travel costs here are something to  consider so there will probably be a difference between what is "reasonable" here to that in the USA.

[Louis D]

Sorry @Alfian,I keep forgetting the exceedingly high tax rates in Europe to pay for the cradle to grave social services.  Texas doesn't even have a state income tax like the vast majority of US states, nor do they impose sales tax on interstate/international sales into the state.  I just filled up my car at $1.91/gallon yesterday.  That's about £0.39/litre.  All that taxation must really limit discretionary spending on hobbies like astronomy.

[johninderby]

It might surprise ypu ro know that UK and US taxes are pretty much the same for higher earners although lpwer in the UK for lower earners. Then of course there is the cost of buying health insurance in the US. ?

Edited December 3, 2018 by johninderby

[Louis D]

On 03/12/2018 at 08:39, Louis D said:

Britain is so small compared to the US, I can't imagine not driving halfway to meet a buyer.  London to Liverpool is only 220 miles.  That won't even get me out of Texas.  For big ticket, heavy items, most Americans are willing to drive at least 200 miles to a halfway point.  I drove 200 miles to pick up my used 15" Dob years ago and turned it into a nice daytrip.

Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but I came across this image comparing Texas to the UK which really drives home my point about driving to pick up an item versus shipping it within Great Britain.  Just the other day, I drove across all of northwestern Texas and halfway across New Mexico to move my son out of college in Albuquerque (he transferred to a Texas college).  As long as it's under a day's drive, it's no big deal.

[Geoff Barnes]

Main difference (in England at least) Louis as I remember all too well, is sitting hour after hour in horrendous 20 mile traffic jams whenever there's an "incident" on the road ahead. Fine if the traffic is flowing, as it sometimes does, but total gridlock is becoming a real problem on many UK roads. Now we're in Australia we too think nothing of 200 mile trips, it's just up the road!  

[wxsatuser]

7 hours ago, Louis D said:

Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but I came across this image comparing Texas to the UK which really drives home my point about driving to pick up an item versus shipping it within Great Britain.  Just the other day, I drove across all of northwestern Texas and halfway across New Mexico to move my son out of college in Albuquerque (he transferred to a Texas college).  As long as it's under a day's drive, it's no big deal.

Someone I know used to drive a truck (big rig) from the southcoast here to Aberdeen and back in a day.

[John]

One thing to bear in mind is that I think fuel in the UK costs a whole lot more than it does in the USA. I don't know what the current price is in the USA but here it is around £1.25 per litre for unleaded petrol which equates to £4.73 per US gallon or £5.68 per UK gallon. 

 

[JeremyS]

Last month I had a coffee machine delivered by courier. The driver spent about 10 mins rooting around in the back, so i thought I'd go and see what was happening. As I was walking down the drive, a lady was walking up holding a box with the Courier's logo on. She had found it laying in the middle of the road in a village a couple of miles away! Fortunately it had my address on it. Having thanked her, I poked my head inside the van and asked the driver "are you looking for this?".

Needless to say I rejected the parcel which had a couple of dents. It then took Nespresso a week to get a replacement to me (the original was on next day delivery), but that it another story.

The driver said he was in the other village on a delivery. He said there were a couple of school lads in the vicinity, of the open van so he pinned the blame on them for knocking it out of the van. He was worried he'd get the sack as he's not allowed to leave the van open. I've seen the driver on a couple of other deliveries - he's quite sheepish 🙂

 

[maw lod qan]

Our Amazon deliveries are mostly done by the US postal service and they can be brutal on a package.

Constantly putting my neighbors in my drive. Once I wondered why one of my trash cans was sitting off to the side upside down

It had one of their packages under it!!

[Marvin Jenkins]

You should try having something sent from the UK to Southwest France. I have so much first hand experience, where to begin.

Father in laws ashes disappeared for a week once in the French system despite online tracking. Received a call from an ape, in a van so badly beaten it looked like some of the packages in the photos. Called from a town 10k away to say “can’t find your house, come and collect, I will be leaving in thirty minutes”.

Ordered an expensive direct to space internet system. Watched the van go by the top of my lane at warp speed and kept on going. Three minutes later, call. “Can’t find your house, you will have to come to me”. I explained seeing him go by, so turn around and come back. Complete refusal! Drove to him (outlaw biker) in worse van I have ever seen, he was throwing the boxes onto the verge, If I wasn’t there he would have left the stuff by the side of the road.

Waiting for delivery, call again, can’t find your house. Come meet me in your local village, I am outside the farm shop. I drive there and he is outside the bank at the other end of the village. Van condition could be improved but setting it on fire. He tells me my address is incorrect even though it has never changed and post arrives daily.

Recently ordered a focuser upgrade from FLO. Usual amazing service, tracked the package to France, where it doesn’t even make it to the sorting depot. Tracking shows no movement for ten days! Then it just arrives out of the blue even though tracking says it has not even been processed at the port.

I have noted that only one courier has ever had sat nav! Just about every courier company sub contracts out to smashed up van man. The worst offender for this is..... won’t say in fear of being sued, but there vans are brown with a gold symbol, except round here they have no markings (probably out of embarrassment due to the terrible service) The drivers don’t even wear company clothing.

Marv

 

[Alfian]

3 hours ago, wxsatuser said:

Someone I know used to drive a truck (big rig) from the southcoast here to Aberdeen and back in a day.

My son drives big (300 + miles) distances fairly regularly but its not something I would consider these days.  This is down to traffic density, delays and significantly, having to have eyes in the back of my head ,  to cope with the bad mannered crazy driving that is frequently encountered.  A couple of hundred miles is about my limit and that is with a break for lunch!  Driving 200 miles to look at a potential buy but with the possibility of maybe not being convinced it  being 100%  is not something I'd consider lightly.

[Louis D]

Sounds like driving around England is a bit like driving around NEW England (USA) where I lived 30 years ago for a time.  With the terribly twisty roads, heavy traffic, slow speed limits, and closely spaced towns, it took 7 hours to go just 300 miles.  I can do the same distance in Texas in 5 hours or less.

[Louis D]

6 hours ago, John said:

One thing to bear in mind is that I think fuel in the UK costs a whole lot more than it does in the USA. I don't know what the current price is in the USA but here it is around £1.25 per litre for unleaded petrol which equates to £4.73 per US gallon or £5.68 per UK gallon. 

 

I just paid $2.11/US gallon for gas (petrol?).  It's higher in New York and especially California, but still under $4.00/US gallon.  Maybe y'all have higher gas taxes.