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Skipper Billy

Anyone using an OGEM mount??

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20 minutes ago, Whirlwind said:

I'm not an engineer.  Is there any empirical evidence for the benefit of one over another to confirm this statement?  What about gear systems as well.  With absolute encoders on the Astro-physics mounts there doesn't seem to be any problems?

I'm not sure I understand.  You want evidence to prove that friction drive is likely to provide better performance than belt drive or that direct drive is better than both?  I have both friction and belt and can confirm this bit by first hand experience.

Absolute encoders will do nothing at all to eliminate backlash.  This is a physical attribute of geared drives.

Edited by RayD

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2 hours ago, RayD said:

I'm not sure I understand.  You want evidence to prove that friction drive is likely to provide better performance than belt drive or that direct drive is better than both?  I have both friction and belt and can confirm this bit by first hand experience.

Absolute encoders will do nothing at all to eliminate backlash.  This is a physical attribute of geared drives. 

Just really empirical evidence that one method is better than another?  The backlash was referring to the other comment in relation to gears. I appreciate that you've experienced multiple types of mount but that's not really empirical evidence but more anecdotal evidence which could simply be bias from always aiming to obtain a better mount.  What I am really wondering is whether there is empirical evidence to suggest one method is simply better than another or whether some approaches are easier to implement and hence can get a much wider range of quality - hence the comment on the Astrophysics mounts which are gear driven but are considered at the top end of the market (whilst there are also poor examples of gear driven mounts)?  Are any of the methods empirically better if they are applied as well as you possibly can?

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9 hours ago, Whirlwind said:

Just really empirical evidence that one method is better than another?  The backlash was referring to the other comment in relation to gears. I appreciate that you've experienced multiple types of mount but that's not really empirical evidence but more anecdotal evidence which could simply be bias from always aiming to obtain a better mount.  What I am really wondering is whether there is empirical evidence to suggest one method is simply better than another or whether some approaches are easier to implement and hence can get a much wider range of quality - hence the comment on the Astrophysics mounts which are gear driven but are considered at the top end of the market (whilst there are also poor examples of gear driven mounts)?  Are any of the methods empirically better if they are applied as well as you possibly can?

Off topic, but check out also the Crux mounts. It's a different type of gearing with its specific advantages and disadvantages.

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Edited to keep thread on track.

The mount appears to have a sound design concept, and when a reliable and suitable controller is adopted I'm sure it will give adequate performance for most users.

 

 

 

Edited by RayD

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33 minutes ago, moise212 said:

Off topic, but check out also the Crux mounts. It's a different type of gearing with its specific advantages and disadvantages.

Very unique, thanks for that.

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After reflection and saw the deviation of the topic, the real question is whether this OGEM mount will be or will not be a good mount, suitable for astrophotography with good monitoring with a significant load possible.

It is not necessary to compare it to any mount with gear or friction drive.

It's my point of view.

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2 minutes ago, dahle said:

After reflection and saw the deviation of the topic, the real question is whether this OGEM mount will be or will not be a good mount, suitable for astrophotography with good monitoring with a significant load possible.

It is not necessary to compare it to any mount with gear or friction drive.

It's my point of view.

Absolutely.  It looks like it has the potential to be a very good mount in its own right so no comparison needed, or even possible, with it being a bit of a hybrid.

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For me i would like to see real world comparison vs the Mesu 200, not because of the design, but purely based on the cost as the Mesu 200 is going to be very similar in cost by the time you factor in an €1000+ euro for the stainless steel and encoder upgrades, not to mention further potential upgrade costs for the SiTech controller if they can't get the FreeGo system to work.

So my interest is purely a cost vs performance comparison, and my gut feeling is that final cost is going to end up so close to the Mesu that there might be very little to separate it from the Mesu.

I think if they can get the absolute encoders to work properly, even if the price was the same as the Mesu, then that would be the saving Grace. The absolute encoders would be enough to set it apart from tbe mesu and potentially make it a better option.

I would like to see them pull it off to also give the likes of ASA and 10 Micron some competition.

I think mark needs to be smart here a launch 2 different products :

A base model at a lower price point to take on tbe EQ8 and ioptoron mount and a pro model with the stainless & absolute encoder upgrade to take on Mesu. I think if he can do that, then he will take market by storm provided the mount is reliable.

Rich.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Northernlight
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Thanks all for a healthy debate - I have ordered a Mesu 200 from Bernard.

My decision was ultimately based on the fact that by the time I add on the cost of stainless steel upgrade (I am 40 meters from the sea) and encoders it comes to about the same as the tried and tested Mesu. 'No Brainer' in the final analysis.

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Billy, i think you have made the right choice, as I'm not convinced that we will see the Ogem before summer, and with the price being so close to the Mesu 200 when you add the cost of the encoder & stainless upgrade, it's also seems like a no brainer to me.

Also I'm not 100% convinced about the distribution partners. I sent their uk distributor DarkFrame Optics 4 messages about the performance of the Ogem vs having them hypertune my EQ8 and have had absolutely no reply.

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8 hours ago, Skipper Billy said:

Thanks all for a healthy debate - I have ordered a Mesu 200 from Bernard.

In your signature already I see David, that Taks not going to stress it, will you be buying something suitable big and heavy to mount on it ? :grin:

Dave

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2 hours ago, Davey-T said:

David, that Taks not going to stress it, will you be buying something suitable big and heavy to mount on it ? :grin:

No immediate plans but it never hurts to be future proof !

Retirement is looming so I am getting a few biggish purchases out of the way !

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On 22/01/2019 at 11:00, Skipper Billy said:

I have ordered a Mesu 200 from Bernard.

Good choice, you won't be disappointed!

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Ok, so managed to get hold of Mark from JTW. Apparently the Ogems are going to start shipping in the next 1-2 weeks as they have resolved the issues with the FreeGo controller system.  He sent me a video of a complete unit slewing on what looked like his kitchen table, but i could not see the control mechanism being used.

I'm going to ask him to send me a video that clearly shows FreeGo in operation.

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So after so further quizzing, Mark was extremely reluctant to share another video, but dropped himself in it saying that he couldn't do another video as "The mount was on it's way to spain". I then asked him if he had made only 1 mount, and he claimed to have made 50, but furthger questioning revealed that he has not made 50, he has partially made parts for 50, but no assembly has been started on any of the mounts as all the parts are not yet finished.

So if you early birds were expecting your mounts anytime soon, then think again.....

In a nutshell, the only mount he has fully built is the prototype.........

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8 minutes ago, Northernlight said:

In a nutshell, the only mount he has fully built is the prototype.........

Probably a prudent way of doing it I would suggest as any issues found on the prototype can be resolved before assembly of the others.

Not ideal if you're expecting your mount imminently, though.

Edited by RayD

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This just popped up on my Facebook.. sounds like my old drill motor got recycled

 

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yes that is the prototype sent to spain........and the only one in existence at the moment.

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Ouch, never watched it with the sound on........That sounds bloody awful..... Those motors are so noisy and sound like they are straining without even any scopes on.......

Only 1 thing to say.........  Mesu 200 lol

 

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One other thing that was mentioned was that he is looking to retrofit the FreeGo system to other mounts and said that he had successfully retrofitted the freego & absolute encoders to a meade mount.

As much as it's an interesting development, it feels like he is getting sidetracked instead of focusing his efforts on the Ogem and building customers mounts.

There might be valid reason for this, e.g. Filling in time whilst the FreeGo people sort their system out, but it does make wonder why he is not 100% focused on getting the Ogem mounts built.

Mark is still insisting that the mounts will start shipping in the next 1-2 weeks, and i suggested that i wasn't convinced, but he was still adamant on shipping in next 1-2 weeks that he said he would send a bottle of Whisky to me if he didn't.

All i can say is cheers as that Whisky is as good as mine 🙂 but i do hope he proves me wrong.

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On 22/01/2019 at 12:00, Skipper Billy said:

I have ordered a Mesu 200 from Bernard.

Can you tell us the price you paid for the Mesu 200, (VAT and counterweight included)? did you take the absolute encoders?

Thank you.

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37 minutes ago, dahle said:

Can you tell us the price you paid for the Mesu 200, (VAT and counterweight included)? did you take the absolute encoders?

Thank you.

The Mesu 200 doesn't have an option of absolute encoders.  When speaking with Lucas he noted that this mount is intended to be used guided for long exposure AP.  To this end, there is no mileage in adding costly encoders as it doesn't need them.  It has a very low PE, and guiding takes in to account atmospheric conditions and OTA flexure etc.

Naturally I am not trying to put up an argument for guided or unguided imaging as there are superb images produced using both methods, I am just pointing out the design intent for this particular mount, which is to be used guided.  If you want Renishaw encoders you can go for the Mesu 300, but that is far more costly and probably a little OTT for most of us on here.  I saw one when I was at the factory, and it is mightily impressive!

 

Edited by RayD

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44 minutes ago, dahle said:

Can you tell us the price you paid for the Mesu 200, (VAT and counterweight included)? did you take the absolute encoders?

The price of the mount and all the accessories are here - https://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/mounts/mesu-optics-mounts/mesu-mount-200/

It was delivered personally by Bernard (modern Astronomy) 4pm yesterday afternoon and by 7pm was all set up and working beautifully. Its a work of art.

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5 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

It was delivered personally by Bernard (modern Astronomy) 4pm yesterday afternoon and by 7pm was all set up and working beautifully. Its a work of art.

Great news.  I have a feeling you're going to enjoy using it :thumbright:

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