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PGM

By PGM
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PGM

PGM

Posted
Posted

Hello everyone,

I’m new to the forum and to telescopes.

I’m from Portugal, 42.9 years old (wink). I’ve been admiring the skies all my life, but only decided to deepen my interest a few months ago, after watching the Moon eclipse close to Mars back in July 27. I then started studying amateur astronomy on my own, resorting to invaluable resources such as Cloudy Nights, Skygazers Lounge, Heavens-Above, Astro-Talks, YouTube, Wikipedia, many other websites, Stellarium, a few books, and even a couple of telescope manuals. I now have some basic knowledge about a few concepts - solar system, constellations, focal ratios, focal lengths, scope designs, eyepieces, magnifications.
I’m still a total newbie regarding the practical aspects of telescopes, because I’ve never owned nor handled one. Light path is the worst for me, diagonals, extension tubes, adapters, in-travel, out-focus and so on, are concepts that I still struggle with. To this regard, I took the liberty of bothering some active members, who are all providing helpful replies. I now understand more about set-ups than I did a week ago, which was close to zero. So I’d like to publicly thank them for helping me take-off - especially Stu, Piero, GavStar, mikeDnight, DirkSteele, StarDust1, Lookitup, to name a few generous and knowledgeable people at SGL and CN.

My goal is mostly the Solar System, although this is likely to be expanded (not replaced) as years go by - like at first I didn’t care much for constellations and now I can stare at them for hours, having learned to identify the most important ones and some mythology around them.

My interest is purely visual, I have no desire for astrophotography. I can admire beautiful astro photos (if in true-color), but I have low interest for taking photos of forms and colors that my eyes can’t see. My only photos will be for the purpose of documenting my observation journal - visual mementos.

I have no star parties near where I live, and the ones that I know about (a 3-hour drive away) are totally dedicated to AP. So I don’t want to bother them, their equipment is too different from what I want. Besides, I also got the strong feeling they consider amateur visual astronomers merely as astrophotographers who haven’t matured yet :D I did visit an observatory recently, it was too crowded for just one telescope, a 14” Orion Dobson (f/4.5) operated by a professional astronomer - I confess I was disappointed by how unappealing Saturn, Mars, and some DSOs looked at that eyepiece.

I believe I’m ready for my first scope. In most aspects of my life I’ve been known to be a little... careful with money. Yes, let’s go with that :D But when it comes to my few hobbies, I take them seriously and can't remember ever regretted saving up to buy top quality - on the other hand, I’ve often regretted buying an average item, only to find myself trying to resell it later in order to buy the one I should have gotten in the first place. So, this time, I’ll skip that and go right to the top - a Takahashi APO refractor. After reading many reviews and threads, I’d possibly choose a TSA-102 triplet. However, they’re OoP and I haven’t found any for sale. So, I’m going for a new FC-100D doublet, which is lighter, slimmer, cools down faster, also has great optics, and is less expensive. I’d get a TSA-120 or a TOA-130 instead, if that would mean not having to buy a high-mag SCT for planets later, but according to what I read, the laws of physics prevent these Taks from showing the same planetary detail as an 8" or bigger SCT.

My life plan is to buy 2 telescopes:
- 4” APO refractor (Takahashi FC-100DC + FT focuser), very soon, for general use;
- 8”, 9.25”, or 11” Celestron SCT, in about 1-2 years, for highest mag. on planets.
In between I also plan to get a Binoviewer, it’s something I can just sense will feel great to me.

So far, my only piece of equipment is a 3-month-old pair of Canon 10x30 IS II binoculars - very sharp, comfortable 5.5° TFoV, light weight, incredible image stabilizer. I first spotted Uranus and Neptune with them just a few days ago!

 

I’m honored to be a part of this community.
Cheers!

 

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vlaiv

vlaiv

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Hi and welcome to SGL.

Having read your post I feel compelled to encourage you by saying that observation is a skill that one can learn and master. At first most of the targets will appear underwhelming, but as your skill improves so will your appreciation and enjoyment. Given enough time and practice you will learn how to see more and deeper.

Being part astrophotographer my self, I have to say that I don't consider visual astronomy to be in any way inferior, nor do I believe that natural progression is from observing to imaging. Both are skills in their own right, and both bring great satisfaction and enjoyment.

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GavStar

GavStar

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3 hours ago, PGM said:

I did visit an observatory recently, it was too crowded for just one telescope, a 14” Orion Dobson (f/4.5) operated by a professional astronomer - I confess I was disappointed by how unappealing Saturn, Mars, and some DSOs looked at that eyepiece. 

 

Welcome PGM. I hope you have lots of fun looking at the night sky!

I hope my reply to your pm was helpful. 

Looking at your comment above, I wanted to make sure that you have read this thread below since I think it’s important for you to be aware of the likely visual views you will get of planets with a (great) 4 inch refractor.

I also have a 11inch SCT and on most nights my 4-5 inch refractors will give similar or maybe even preferable views of the planets due to seeing conditions. Also note that for the next 5 years or so the major planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) are lowish (or small) in the sky for northern hemisphere observers (except maybe for mars in 2020) so planetary viewing will be a bit more of a struggle. You do have an advantage being in Portugal over us UK based observers though ? as they will be a bit higher in the sky.

 

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PGM

PGM

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8 hours ago, Spaceade said:

Hi PGM, welcome to the forum.

If your desire is as great as it sounds, I'm sure your 'life plan' is just the beginning! 

Shhh... that was not supposed to be said out loud :D

 

8 hours ago, vlaiv said:

observation is a skill that one can learn and master. At first most of the targets will appear underwhelming, but as your skill improves so will your appreciation and enjoyment. Given enough time and practice you will learn how to see more and deeper.

Being part astrophotographer my self, I have to say that I don't consider visual astronomy to be in any way inferior, nor do I believe that natural progression is from observing to imaging. Both are skills in their own right, and both bring great satisfaction and enjoyment.

Wise words. Thank you for your advice.

 

5 hours ago, GavStar said:

I hope my reply to your pm was helpful. 

Looking at your comment above, I wanted to make sure that you have read this thread below since I think it’s important for you to be aware of the likely visual views you will get of planets with a (great) 4 inch refractor.

I also have a 11inch SCT and on most nights my 4-5 inch refractors will give similar or maybe even preferable views of the planets due to seeing conditions. Also note that for the next 5 years or so the major planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) are lowish (or small) in the sky for northern hemisphere observers (except maybe for mars in 2020) so planetary viewing will be a bit more of a struggle. You do have an advantage being in Portugal over us UK based observers though ? as they will be a bit higher in the sky.

 

Your PM was very helpful, thanks.

That was a great thread you posted, well written and clear OP (btw, that Saturn at the eyepiece looks *exactly* like the featureless one I saw in the 14" Dobson, hadn't seen such a similar photo yet). I hadn't read it yet but was already aware of unrealistically high expectations. After reading a lot these last few months and running many telescope/EP simulations in Stellarium, I had already had several moments of "what do you mean DSOs look b&w?!", "what do you mean Jupiter and Saturn have no surface?!" and so on... ? But it is good to read about it again, get one's feet on the ground, and appreciate this amazing activity for what it is. If I enjoy it this much with naked eyes, it can't get much worse with a Tak!

I find it funny how so many people say that about a big SCT vs. a 4" Tak. Makes me wonder... Doesn't look that way at all in Stellarium! But I guess when seeing is good, it makes it all worth it, right?

Yes, I guess we're about to have some rough planetary years. I can see Mars getting smaller and smaller every night, hate it! Hopefully the 2020 opposition will be a good dust-free one, because after that it only gets better in 2035...

 

4 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

I can recommend the C9.25 for planets. It's just about the right size. I've had mine for a few years now with no desire to 'upgrade'.

Have you compared your 9.25" to a 8" and an 11"? How do you relate to what GavStar and I were talking above, regarding a big SCT vs. a 4"?

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Cosmic Geoff

Cosmic Geoff

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I would advise caution. If you want to start by buying an APO refractor that's up to you.  If I were you, I'd start with some cheap and small equipment and see how I got on with that first. I understand that you intend to observe from your apartment. Is that from a balcony or through an opened window?  In either case the seeing will be bad, and if you observe through an opened window the angles will be very restricted.

Visual views of the planets can be underwhelming, and in my experience bigger apertures are better. I turned to planetary astrophotography to get better (and more permanent) views than I could achieve by eye.   A binoviewer would be worth having - I got a nice view of Mars last night with my 5" Maksutov, Barlow lens and binoviewer. 

I only tried working through an opened window once or twice, when trying to view and image Mercury, and I found that the window frame got in the way and the view was shimmery. The captured image was quite bad. 

An 11" SCT is not small, and I doubt that you will get your money's worth out of it if you try to use it from your apartment.

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PGM

PGM

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29 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I understand that you intend to observe from your apartment. Is that from a balcony or through an opened window?  In either case the seeing will be bad, and if you observe through an opened window the angles will be very restricted.

Visual views of the planets can be underwhelming, and in my experience bigger apertures are better.

An 11" SCT is not small, and I doubt that you will get your money's worth out of it if you try to use it from your apartment.

You made some excellent points, with which I unfortunately agree and are not news to me. According to almost all reports I've read, and I read many, my balcony is not the best place, but as I explained in the op, that is the best I can do without making my health problems even worse. I am aware of the importance of thermal equilibrium and will do my best to achieve that. I am concerned about some roofs, several lateral obstruction points, and cramped floor space. But the Tak is something I have to do, and whichever views I get, I'll be grateful for them and with a clean conscience. If the views prove to be at least acceptable, before I purchase a bigger SCT in the future I'll have to take exact measurements of the 8"/9.25"/11" models, and make sure it is doable (for the Tak I made a paper 1:1 model and used a photo tripod to simulate positionings). Thanks for taking the time to think about this.

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