Planning My Best Experience with New Orion SkyQuest XT8 Classic Dobsonian

[Hobbes_Is_Real]

This looks like a Great community!  Everyone seems welcoming, patient, and willing to share their wealth of knowledge of knowledge freely and willingly.

 I have always had what I would classify as a beginner telescope (last one was a 4.5" Focal Length: 500mm / Aperture: 112mm).  I just bought an Orion SkyQuest XT8 Classic Dobsonian.....it is being delivered in about 45 min from the time I post this (if you can't tell I feel like a giddy 48 year old young boy that can't wait for the time my parents said I had to wait on Christmas morning until running down to see what Santa delivered overnight!!!)  

Here is a little info about me that would probably help in any recommendations:

• I view myself as a “smart novice”.  In other words, I do have experience using telescopes BUT I know I have a lot to learn but I am very quick learner and very tech / science savvy with shorter learning curves than most in these areas.  So I many ask some basic questions but learn quickly.
• I wear glasses….my son does not
•  I live in Pacific Northwest of USA (Vancouver WA / Portland OR area) so I do have light pollution.  I live in large residential area on the edge of town, so we have a nice park 4 min away nice range of low horizon with no direct lights but still general light pollution for Vancouver WA / Portland OR
• Since my telescope is not GoTo, I will be looking at viewing use and not astrophotography (at least not until next telescope upgrade)
• Just like with wildlife photography equipment, I need to be budget minded, but not 100% budget rigid
•  ...........I usually fall into the group of looking at balance of budget vs quality.  In other words….. If I can get top brand at a reasonable price, GREAT…..I don’t want to get something with only budget in mind so that the item isn’t even worth using……so I usually end up not with the cheapest option but not the top most expensive one either.

Future use of accessories

• In 2-4 years of using my XT8, I am planning jumping to either 10 inch or even stick with same 8 inch but either way have a GoTo solution as I want to eventually upgrade to astrophotography compatible telescope.  

This is what I have so far……..

Eyepieces I Own……

• 12.3mm Orion Epic ED-2  1.25” eyepiece
• 20mm GSO Super PLOSSL  1.25” eyepiece
• 25mm Sirius Plossl 1.25” eyepiece  -- came with XT8
• 35mm DeepView 2" eyepiece -- came with XT8
• 4mm 1.25” cheap with a really small eye lens (like from an old cheap telescope) 
•  2x 1.25” Shorty  inch Barlow

Filters I Own…..

• Orion 1.25” Moon filter (not sure what %)
• Neewer 2 inches 13% Moon Filter
• Celestron 1.25" Mars Observing Filter
• Solomark 1.25 Inch UV IR Cut Block Filter
• Solomark 1.25 Inch 4pcs Color Filter Set for Telescope Eyepiece - No.12 Yellow, No.23 Red, No.80A Blue and No.56 Green

What I plan on getting and would love medium balanced recommendations of budget vs top of line quality.  Also if you had to choose, which ones would you put at the top and bottom of your list in order of when you get them….

• 1.25" O-III Nebula Filter
• Low MM eyepiece…..maybe 4 or 6mm? what is the best lowest MM is best for XT8.
•  Is it then worth getting a 8mm range eyepiece too to be between the lowest one above and the 12.3mm I already own?
• Laser Collimator
• Orion 10145 Dual Finder Scope Mounting Bracket (to mount green laser finder and traditional finder)
• Green Laser Finder
• Filter Wheel--- is this really useful and handy or more of a “gimmicky gadget”?
• What else I that I don’t know I should put on I Need To Get list?

Additional General Accessories I plan on getting and if you have any brands you have had positive experience with

• Universal Cell Phone Adapter Mount --- used mostly when showing telescope with kids so all can using my cell phone as a viewer which would be only larger brighter objects
• Red flashlights
   

[Sunshine]

Why that’s one heck of an introduction! was fun to read through, let me extend a huge and warm welcome to SGL.

This truly is a special place here, we look forward to hearing about your first light experience with your new XT8!.

[Hobbes_Is_Real]

LOL....thanks for the warm welcome. 

Sorry if a little TMI, but I just basically looked at several of the questions the guys and gals asked trying to help others with the same line of "Help Me I am New" posts and thought I would just answer all those questions right off the bat.  

[westmarch]

Hi there,

Welcome to the forum.

I hope you enjoy your scope as much as you anticipate.  A dob is a great way to find your way around the sky and if your son is anything like mine he can be your navigator - finding the target stars and telling you where to point the dob. An 8 inch is one of the best blends of portability and light gathering, it should give you years of good service.

My advice is to get some experience with the eyepieces you have rather than jumping into further purchases.

I must admit I don’t like laser pointers, especially near crowded urban skies.  I found that the best buy for me was a combination of a red dot finder to get you into the general area and a 9x50 RACI finder to allow you to quickly zero in on your target. 

Any old head torch can be turned into a red light by application of red electrical tape or nail varnish - providing its not too bright.

Collimation is important in a dob and everyone finds their own favourite method.  I am happy with a cheap collimation cap.

As for colour filters, why not try them first with your dob and if you find that it enhances your view of planets then a filter wheel might help.  Not everyone finds them helpful (moon filter excepted). If you get into deep sky objects then narrow band filters are something you may consider but why not join a club and ask someone if you can try them first.

Clear skies.

John

 

 

[Hobbes_Is_Real]

1 minute ago, westmarch said:

Hi there,

Welcome to the forum.

 If you get into deep sky objects then narrow band filters are something you may consider but why not join a club and ask someone if you can try them first.

Clear skies.

John

Great advice.  Thanks for sharing! 

 Yes I am looking forward to deep space objects so a narrow band filter at the moment is pretty high on my list.

I have already reached out to a club in my home town, but no response yet, they are probably more a loosely gathered group than club.  I think I might have to look deeper into larger city as I know there are some active clubs there, but they are like 30 miles further.  

[Jimtheslim]

50 minutes ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

 I need to be budget minded, but not 100% budget rigid
 

A universal truth amongst members if ever there was one! 

[Ricochet]

8 hours ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

1.25" O-III Nebula Filter

I would suggest a 2" OIII instead. OIII tends to require an exit pupil of >3mm. With an f6 scope that equates to an eyepiece of 18mm or higher, at which point eyepieces can easily be in the 2" format. If you have a 2"-1.25" reducer that is threaded for 2" filters you can still use the 2" filters with your 1.25" eyepieces. An alternative/additional filter would be the UHC filter, which is probably more useful on a wider range of objects but doesn't make quite as dramatic a difference on those objects it is best at. Long term most people own both filters.

8 hours ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

Low MM eyepiece…..maybe 4 or 6mm? what is the best lowest MM is best for XT8.

In my 8" dob I tend to top out DSO viewing with either a 5 or 7mm. Once you go past 1mm exit pupil the diffraction rings start to show around stars and I prefer to keep them as point sources. For galaxies and nebulae your existing 12mm will probably be the optimum length for unfiltered views. 

For lunar and planetary viewing the astronomical seeing will be the determining factor. In the UK we tend to use ~200x as a guideline maximum. For some reason I have it in my mind that Portland may be similar. Some nights conditions will be worse, some nights they will be better. Many people own either a zoom eyepiece or a number of similar focal lengths around this point in order to adjust for the conditions. For lunar you might be able to push to a 4mm on some nights, also perhaps Neptune and Uranus as they are so small and you will want a bit more magnification. Saturn and Mars maybe a 5mm and Jupiter might be best at 6-7 as it tends not to respond that well to magnification.

8 hours ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

Is it then worth getting a 8mm range eyepiece too to be between the lowest one above and the 12.3mm I already own?

Yes, but as others have said, start with the eyepieces you have and expand from there. You don't need to rush into things and with the planets where they are you will mostly be viewing DSOs, which tend to require lower magnifications and/or wider fields of view.

9 hours ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

Laser Collimator

Useful, with your barlow, for the barlowed laser method of primary mirror collimation. Make sure you get one with an angled face so that you can see it when you are at the rear of the tube adjusting the colimation bolts. A sight tube is still the best tool for secondary colimation. Most "cheshires" sold these days are combined cheshire/sight tubes.

9 hours ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

• Orion 10145 Dual Finder Scope Mounting Bracket (to mount green laser finder and traditional finder)
• Green Laser Finder

A laser is of no use for me with the amount of air traffic. I use a red dot finder and 9x50 RACI. The dual mounting bracket will be useful if you don't want to drill your tube to fit a second shoe.

9 hours ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

Filter Wheel--- is this really useful and handy or more of a “gimmicky gadget”?

More of a photography item. You may have trouble achieving focus with one inserted into the optical train.

[JOC]

I think I'd spend 6 months enjoying all the kit you already have and then you might discover that you already have enough (yes, I know that sounds like heresey - don't look at my signature, but I honestly haven't bought anything for about a year!)

[Hobbes_Is_Real]

Wow....thank you all for your time and advice!!!  

Below I tried to include links to items I mentioned to make as easy as possible for those who wish to share their insights.......

I got it today, put it together, and using just the Collimator cap it looked pretty darn close but I need to watch some YouTube videos to see how I get it Perfect.  But as luck would have it was just barely too cloudy (almost think hazy really) to really see much, so I didn't go out of town and just stayed in our bright cul d sac which is just under a street light.  Before the hazy overcast become a solid cloud overcast, I could see the moon and see how large Mars will look (though with no detail under this conditions, but I didn't even try for the classics like Andromeda, etc.... due to the hazy clouds.)  

Seeing the size of Mars though, I do think a lower MM lens will be my next purchase

• I think I am thinking of a 6mm.  
• I do see zoom lenses ranging from 8mm to 24mm ($65 range) and some from 7.2mm to 21.5mm ($180 range)

Since I have the 12.3 mm to 35 mm range pretty well covered  (12.3 mm 1.25”/ 20mm 1.25” / 25 mm 1.25” / 35mm 2")  and to fill in the gaps on my lower end I think I will get a 

1. 6mm 1.25” ....( on Amazon I see several from the likes of Gosky / Yosoo / SVBONY / Orion / Astromania /  Alstar / for between $34 to $60)......any good suggestions for a 6mm eyepiece?
2. Zoom eyepiece.....Celestron 93230 8mm to 24mm 1.25" Zoom   ......OR....... Meade Instruments 07199-2 Series 4000 8mm to 24mm 1.25" each for about $65 on Amazon.......OR ....Orion 8250 7.2-21.5mm Zoom!  (around $180).....any one know any pros and cons when compared to each other?    (I know i would LOVE the Baader Planetarium 8-24mm Hyperion Clickstop Zoom Mark IV but $289 is certainly out of budget range ATM.)
3. Throw in an O-III filter (Baader /  Astromania /  Orion / Alstar ) and I think I am set with an awesome starter kit and can then evaluate where to go and what to get next.

AND THAT'S IT FOR NOW.............with just filling in a gap at my lower end I think that would round me out nicely with a full range (6mm to 35mm) with a total of 6 eyepieces to start with (and a good starter set of filters to play with)  and then after a 6 months or more can see witch pieces I would want to upgrade as time goes on....ie upgrade what becomes my most go to 1.25" lens with a 2" version of itself. 

Do you guys find that Amazon has some of the best prices or there other Must Go To sites before even thinking about Amazon that you would recommend?

[Cosmic Geoff]

Don't buy any more stuff without trying your existing accessories a few times.

I would advise you to buy from an astronomy dealer rather than via Amazon - the service will be better.  Use your local dealer or lose him.

I would deprecate the use of green lasers.  Our site sponsor FLO does not sell them!

+1 for a dual 9x50 and red-dot finder setup.   And consider replacing the straight-through finder with a RACI finder.  The red-dot will get the scope pointed at the right area of sky for the optical finder or main scope.

Several of the lower-priced 8-24mm zoom eyepieces are essentially the same item with different badging (as you can see from the sales pictures). I have one and they work quite well. Note though that at the 24mm end, the field of view is so small that you'd probably use your 25mm eyepiece instead, which rather defeats the point of having a zoom.  (Small FOV + Dob = bad news). I also have to take the zoom eyepiece out and adjust it two-handed under a dim light, which again takes some of the shine off the idea.

[JOC]

1 hour ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

but I need to watch some YouTube videos to see how I get it Perfect

Nah, they are OK for gaining confidence in the fact that you can loosen things up and get them back, but chapter and verse on collimation is here:

http://www.astro-baby.com/astrobaby/help/collimation-guide-newtonian-reflector/

Follow it to the letter, don't deviate and do everything suggested and you won't go wrong.

[PaulM]

I'm pretty new to astronomy and bought my dobs a few months back, an 8" and then I bought a 12" goto

Firstly, rather than dwell on equipment (you have a lot already) at this early stage (I did) get out there and start observing and learning the sky. Purchase a good star atlas and get into the routine of getting the scope out and ready and using the equipment you have and prep each observation session beforehand so you have a list of objects to observe and get the most out of your observing time

 

Also download Stellarium (mobile\PC\laptop) and SkySafari (mobile) to help getting to know the sky

Have fun !

 

[PaulM]

1 minute ago, PaulM said:

I'm pretty new to astronomy and bought my dobs a few months back, an 8" and then I bought a 12" goto

Firstly, rather than dwell on equipment (you have a lot already) at this early stage (I did) get out there and start observing and learning the sky. Purchase a good star atlas and get into the routine of getting the scope out and ready and using the equipment you have and prep each observation session beforehand so you have a list of objects to observe and get the most out of your observing time

Also download Stellarium (mobile\PC\laptop) and SkySafari (mobile) to help getting to know the sky

As mentioned if required get a right angled finder (RACI) - this was a revelation on my 8" and made star hoping to DSO much easier

Have fun !

 

 

[JOC]

25 minutes ago, PaulM said:

As mentioned if required get a right angled finder (RACI) - this was a revelation on my 8"

I also got one of those within 2 weeks of ownership, but what really made the difference for me was a Y shaped holder so I could use two finders - a cheap Celestron red dot finder next to the Optical RACI made such a huge difference it was untrue - I went from not getting anything in the RACI in 20 minutes to being able to land on anything I could see with the RACI in about 30 seconds flat.

[PaulM]

1 hour ago, JOC said:

I also got one of those within 2 weeks of ownership, but what really made the difference for me was a Y shaped holder so I could use two finders - a cheap Celestron red dot finder next to the Optical RACI made such a huge difference it was untrue - I went from not getting anything in the RACI in 20 minutes to being able to land on anything I could see with the RACI in about 30 seconds flat.

Yep same here once I fitted a telrad and RACI it made a word of difference

[Hobbes_Is_Real]

Great responses all!  Very much appreciated and taken to heart.

My first impression of this community is very positive, patient, with an apparent willingness to offer sincere help with an encouraging and honest sharing

[Hobbes_Is_Real]

8 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Don't buy any more stuff without trying your existing accessories a few times.

I would advise you to buy from an astronomy dealer rather than via Amazon - the service will be better.  Use your local dealer or lose him.

I agree with not buying more stuff....BUT....I don't know if I can resist!  LOL  I do think I am going to get one inexpensive wide angle 6mm eyepiece (Probably the likes of Gosky / Yosoo / SVBONY / Orion / Astromania /  Alstar / for between $34 to $60) just so I can see the full range of my scope.  And buy nothing more until after 2-4 months and only then look at a better one in this range if needed if I find it useful or not if I don't.   I would LOVE to go to a Star Party and see if I could get a peek at 6mm lens in my scope, but there is not another Star Party until March . 

We used to have an Awesome Astronomy Shop in my home town, and I took all my business to him to support him, but he closed like 6 years back.  Another good one that was GREAT in repairing, offering advice, and sells a nice range of eyepieces / filters / accessories....but he passed away a few years back.  

My local stargazing club hasn't responded to my inquires so not sure if they are still around.  But we do a HUGE astronomy club in the city next to us (about 30 miles away).  I will probably go to their monthly meetings at least for the next next month or two to see what other local resources have still survived or not......but at the moment it looks like Online might really be my only option.   

8 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

+1 for a dual 9x50 and red-dot finder setup.   And consider replacing the straight-through finder with a RACI finder.  The red-dot will get the scope pointed at the right area of sky for the optical finder or main scope.

6 hours ago, JOC said:

I also got one of those within 2 weeks of ownership, but what really made the difference for me was a Y shaped holder so I could use two finders - a cheap Celestron red dot finder next to the Optical RACI made such a huge difference it was untrue - I went from not getting anything in the RACI in 20 minutes to being able to land on anything I could see with the RACI in about 30 seconds flat.

4 hours ago, PaulM said:

Yep same here once I fitted a telrad and RACI it made a word of difference

I am going to look into FACI finder to potentially add to wishlist. 

My telescope bundle came with a Orion 7228 EZ Finder II Telescope Reflex Sight  .  I assume this is a cheaper water down version of telrad that is probably far superior?

 

8 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Several of the lower-priced 8-24mm zoom eyepieces are essentially the same item with different badging (as you can see from the sales pictures). I have one and they work quite well. Note though that at the 24mm end, the field of view is so small that you'd probably use your 25mm eyepiece instead, which rather defeats the point of having a zoom.  (Small FOV + Dob = bad news). I also have to take the zoom eyepiece out and adjust it two-handed under a dim light, which again takes some of the shine off the idea.

Yes my 12.3mm / 20mm / 25mm are nice wide angles and probably superior...........another item crossed off the list.  This is why I love lists, put them on, compare them, and only have the what you really need left.

 

[Hobbes_Is_Real]

8 hours ago, JOC said:

Nah, they are OK for gaining confidence in the fact that you can loosen things up and get them back, but chapter and verse on collimation is here:

http://www.astro-baby.com/astrobaby/help/collimation-guide-newtonian-reflector/

Follow it to the letter, don't deviate and do everything suggested and you won't go wrong.

Thank you for this!!!!!   Unless the Supreme Ruler of the House has other plans for me tonight, since it will be super overcast tonight, I will go through this step by step.

[Hobbes_Is_Real]

9 hours ago, PaulM said:

I'm pretty new to astronomy and bought my dobs a few months back, an 8" and then I bought a 12" goto

Firstly, rather than dwell on equipment (you have a lot already) at this early stage (I did) get out there and start observing and learning the sky. Purchase a good star atlas and get into the routine of getting the scope out and ready and using the equipment you have and prep each observation session beforehand so you have a list of objects to observe and get the most out of your observing time

Also download Stellarium (mobile\PC\laptop) and SkySafari (mobile) to help getting to know the sky

Have fun !

 

Yes...my 17 yr old son and I are planing on spending some quality time together.  I am not one to buy something and let it sit and experience and getting to the point of using it without thought vs learning to use it makes a world of difference to (and time in the field to get there).  Just a matter of dropping everything and going out when we do get a break in between cloudy and raining days....we do live in the NW and we deserve our reputation for all the rain we get!

I did spend some of my "free" Google Rewards money in my GooglePlay Wallet on SkySafari.  My telescope came with some version of Starry Knight but not sure yet if it is the full version or a watered down one.  I will certainly check out Stellarium! 

[JOC]

1 minute ago, Hobbes_Is_Real said:

I will go through this step by step.

It is a really good guide recommended across SGL - I was terrified before I tampered with mine for the first time, but I followed the guide and did everything and ended up with a brilliant result.  The only thing that isn't mentioned is I found that as I did the final tighten on the screws you sort of get a final micro movement into place of the bit you are tightening up and I just found that I had to allow for that as I positioned the odd item - it just means loosening the screw and repeating the alignment and tighten allowing for what you know will be final movement - it's no big deal, but def. worth mentioning as I had to allow for it and it didn't occur to me for a while.