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Canon 600D modified or Altair Astro Hypercam 183 Pro V2


Jim

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Hi guys,

So I want to start some DSOAstrophotography. I have a relatively low budget of £500 for a camera.

Kit I have already:

HEQ5, Altair astro Lightwave 80 with 0.8 reducer,Skywatcher 200PDS, ZWO ASI185MC Cool.

 

I now want to do more DSO stuff without breaking the bank, so shall I get a Canon 600D modified or the Altair Astro 183 pro V2?

 

cheers.

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I’ve seen a 600d for £179 at London camera exchange with a warranty ... then just gotta get it modified... 

 

think I’ll try this over the winter learn the basics...Then maybe look for a used cooled cmos / ccd, unless anyone can suggest something else worth trying at £500 ish?

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1 hour ago, Jim said:

Wish there was a TEC cooled dso camera for £500-600 

These are slightly over your budget and have small sensors but are cooled. 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi178mc-cool-usb-3-colour-camera.html

 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-385mc-cool-usb-30-colour-camera.html

 

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Ah that’s interesting, will take a look at those. I bought a used ZWO ASI185MC Cool a couple years back for £300 but it’s only suitable for planetary stuff as it has an issue with amp glow on anything upwards of 2-3” exposures. So I’m a bit hesitant on buying ZWO again. 

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3 hours ago, Jim said:

Ah that’s interesting, will take a look at those. I bought a used ZWO ASI185MC Cool a couple years back for £300 but it’s only suitable for planetary stuff as it has an issue with amp glow on anything upwards of 2-3” exposures. So I’m a bit hesitant on buying ZWO again. 

I'm fairly sure all the new cmos technology astro cameras suffer from amp glow. Fortunately it calibrates out 

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On 23/10/2018 at 16:24, Jim said:

Hi guys,

So I want to start some DSOAstrophotography. I have a relatively low budget of £500 for a camera.

Kit I have already:

HEQ5, Altair astro Lightwave 80 with 0.8 reducer,Skywatcher 200PDS, ZWO ASI185MC Cool.

 

I now want to do more DSO stuff without breaking the bank, so shall I get a Canon 600D modified or the Altair Astro 183 pro V2?

 

cheers.

Personally I feel a modified DSLR is a better bet that the 183c with no TEC cooling.

The two pillars of dedicated cameras are TEC cooling and mono sensors, it has neither.

Buy this:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/323944-atik-414ex-mono-reduced-%C2%A3-650/

and a HA filter

Failing that get the mono version of the hypercam.

You will be much better off.

Adam

 

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On 23/10/2018 at 17:36, alacant said:

Hi. According to this video, the 183 'blows the dslr out of the water'. I wonder...

 

 

Yeah.....I wonder too.  He is essentially sponsored. I note that he has not used that camera in almost 18 months..thats how good he thinks it is.

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On 02/11/2018 at 08:11, Jim said:

So I think I’m gonna go for a mono, cooled camera.

 

Looking at the ASI290MM-COOL, 178, 385.... which would suite my needs better? 

Of those the 178 is the standout for me ask @Uranium235 about it as he is imaging with it at the moment, the sensor on the 290 is just too small in my view. I dont think that the 385 actually comes in mono.

Personally I would be looking at that second hand 414ex though....better solution than any of those for the focal lengths of your scopes.

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11 hours ago, Adam J said:

Of those the 178 is the standout for me ask @Uranium235 about it as he is imaging with it at the moment, the sensor on the 290 is just too small in my view. I dont think that the 385 actually comes in mono.

Personally I would be looking at that second hand 414ex though....better solution than any of those for the focal lengths of your scopes.

Thanks Adam. However looking at the CCD suitability calculator I'm getting 3.46 " / pixel  for my Lightwave 80 with 0.8X which will mean its massively under sampled right?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jim said:

Thanks Adam. However looking at the CCD suitability calculator I'm getting 3.46 " / pixel  for my Lightwave 80 with 0.8X which will mean its massively under sampled right?

 

 

Really??? I was assuming that scope was a F6 so I got 2.7'' / pixel. Which is not ideal but very workable. I guess the reducer is pushing it over 3''/ pixel though and that is under-sampled.

To be honest the 414ex with a 1.0x flattner for F6 is still going to be more sensitive than the 178 with the 0.8 reducer at F4.8 so dropping the 0.8 for a 1.0 is an option. 

But they are about the same FOV at that point, so you are most likely better off with the 178 for the better sampling although you can afford to bin that 2x2 for 2.6'' / pixel as its sampling below the Daws limit (1.45''/pixel) for a 80mm scope at 1.29''/pixel with 1x1 binning.

The FOV is not too tiny with the 178mm at about 380mm, you can fit the whole of m33 in a frame for example. But you wont get close to m31 or getting M42 + running man without two tiles. So as long as you are happy with that limitation the 178mm will do very well. If not its the 183mm pro...which as you know is 300 pounds more. Mind you you dont get the 14-bit a/d with the 183 that you do with the 178mm.

Adam

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Jim said:

Thanks Adam. However looking at the CCD suitability calculator I'm getting 3.46 " / pixel  for my Lightwave 80 with 0.8X which will mean its massively under sampled right?

 

 

I wouldn't say 3.4" is bad, in fact you can get some smashing images at 3.4, this image was taken at that sampling rate: 

QSI 683 WSG - 2x2bin on the 130pds 

 

Image2_Ps.jpg

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Wow great photo!

so I’m a bit confused now. Undersampling is ok? Oversapling is bad? 

Will a 414ex be a better camera for my Altair 80  refractor (500mm, f6.2) plus x0.8 reducer the. The zwo asi178? I also have a skywatcher 200 pds.

 

many thanks!

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On 06/11/2018 at 08:13, Jim said:

Wow great photo!

so I’m a bit confused now. Undersampling is ok? Oversapling is bad? 

Will a 414ex be a better camera for my Altair 80  refractor (500mm, f6.2) plus x0.8 reducer the. The zwo asi178? I also have a skywatcher 200 pds.

 

many thanks!

I would say that you would get away with it at 500mm but once reduced to 400mm by the x0.8 reducer the 414ex will be undersampled.  You dont really want to go more than 3'' / pixel in my opinion as you are going to lose detail in most seeing conditions. 

You can always bin the 178mm to prevent oversampling if required. You wont get quite the same benefit as binning a CCD but it certainly still improves Signal to Noise. 

As discussed before the best idea for you is a ASI183mm pro or even a ASI1600mm pro....I might be tempted to at least save for the 183mm pro myself. But if you really don't want to wait or point blank done want to spend the extra then the ASI178mm-c is the best bet. You will have a small feild of view at 400mm but it wont be totally unworkable. 

Adam

 

 

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