Need Advice on My Equipment

[waruna]

Hello all.

Above subject refers, I have bought my first ever equipment at local store (after getting advise and recommendation from the store owner):

• Telescope: Skywatcher Maksutov 150/1800 Catadioptric
• Orion Starseeker IV GoTo Computerized Altzimuth Mount & Tripod
• Barlow 1.25" 2X Lens Fully Multi-Coated
• Zoom Eyepiece 8mm-24mm
• Optolong Moon & Sky Glow Filter
• ZWO ASI034 Camera
• Synscan WiFi Adapter

So for the past few weeks, I had enjoyed the beauty of Moon, Saturn and Mars (though Mars is very small like a tiny ball). No Jupiter yet because its always below horizon every time I started my session.

Then few days ago I do the 'try and error' to capturing DSO & Nightscapes (Milky Way). By self-explored any available online tutorial (mostly Youtube), eventually the result is very catastrophic.

Now I don't know whether it is something to do with SharpCap setting, or my focus is way off, or my equipment is simply not good enough to do both DSO & Nightscapes.

Seek your advice, experts.

I thank you all in advance. May God bless we all.

[drjolo]

Your telescope is long focal ratio (slow) instrument. It is more suitable for observing and imaging objects with small apparent size (Moon & planets), compact star clusters, bright planetary nebulae - that at the beginning. You may start to capture imaging of the Moon, then you can confirm if you have reached the focus. You can also set focus at daylight pointing telescope at some distant object. 

PS - do not use barlow - you do not need it. With your zoom eyepiece you can reach 225x power, and it is enough for such instrument. 

[noah4x4]

One problem with an alt-az scope is that you are limited to extremely short exposures unless polar aligned on a wedge (due to rotational drift). That means you are limited to only the brightest DSOs and require dark skies. I also suspect you are attempting far too high magnification which will impact on focus. Have you visually seen any DSOs? Even a 24mm is quite high for many DSOs.

Your kit should work fine with bright objects like Moon or planets, but many DSOs will be quite difficult, but practice on  the Orion Nebula and Andromeda Galaxy initially viewing through your 24mm. However, once visually in focus through an eyepiece, the degree of focus adjustment required for a camera is likely to be significant.

Astrophotography isn't easy and no disrespect intended but your equipment is limited at the budget end of the scale. I am not saying it is impossible, but it is more challenging .

[adyj1]

5 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

One problem with an alt-az scope is that you are limited to extremely short exposures unless polar aligned on a wedge (due to rotational drift). 

This would be the case for a non-tracking mount, but this is a goto mount, so should easily manage 30-60s exposures. 

I would concentrate on making sure you are getting focus - view a bright star through the eyepiece and than switch to camera. Make sure you can focus 'through' the star, focusing in one direction and going from fuzzy blob to sharp pinprick back to fuzzy blob. Then focus back again and fine-tune until the star is as small as you can make it. 

If you can't even get a fuzzy blob, it may be that you don't have sharpcap set up correctly - I know that the wrong gain and/or exposure settings will mean you can't see anything. Let us know your settings to see if someone can help with that.

You should hopefully be able to get something! 

Ady 

[noah4x4]

It is true that 30 second exposures are feasible before rotational drift is an issue. But for other than the brightest DSOs you won't capture enough photons to produce a worthwhile image. I have adopted Hyperstar for that rreason. 

One reason I don't like generic applications like SharpCap is that focus, exposure and gain settings can be difficult for novices. I struggled for ages with I-Cap and my Celestron NexImage Burst camera. I also found SG Pro challenging.  This is where I think Atik has a distinct edge by bundling its own easy to use software for its camera range with helpful presets etc. 

[johninderby]

I see that the max scope weight for your mount is 13lbs and the Skymax 150 OTA is over 12lbs without eyepiece or diagonal so stability could be an issue. 

[adyj1]

32 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

But for other than the brightest DSOs you won't capture enough photons to produce a worthwhile image. 

I think you are doing cheap AP a disservice when you say any image will not be worthwhile... When you've got cheap kit you don't (or at least shouldn't) expect fantastic images, but I've seen 'worthwhile' images captured on a smartphone with eyepiece projection. As long as expectations are reasonably set I see no reason not to get many worthwhile images of the brighter DSOs and globular clusters. 

Cheap AP is worthy! It's just a bit dimmer than expensive AP ? (ok, a lot dimmer, but you get my point ?) 

[waruna]

2 hours ago, drjolo said:

Your telescope is long focal ratio (slow) instrument. It is more suitable for observing and imaging objects with small apparent size (Moon & planets), compact star clusters, bright planetary nebulae - that at the beginning. You may start to capture imaging of the Moon, then you can confirm if you have reached the focus. You can also set focus at daylight pointing telescope at some distant object. 

PS - do not use barlow - you do not need it. With your zoom eyepiece you can reach 225x power, and it is enough for such instrument. 

Hi Mr. Drjolo,

Yes, capturing Moon is not a problem. Here is some of the results:

Those Moons above is captured using afocal (am i right?) technique . No barlow, zoom is 24mm and by using Samsung Galaxy Note 5 smartphone, I just point the smartphone's camera centered to the eyepiece and shoot the shutter with 2-sec timer. So I guess focus is ok right?

Thank you.

[waruna]

2 hours ago, noah4x4 said:

One problem with an alt-az scope is that you are limited to extremely short exposures unless polar aligned on a wedge (due to rotational drift). That means you are limited to only the brightest DSOs and require dark skies. I also suspect you are attempting far too high magnification which will impact on focus. Have you visually seen any DSOs? Even a 24mm is quite high for many DSOs.

Your kit should work fine with bright objects like Moon or planets, but many DSOs will be quite difficult, but practice on  the Orion Nebula and Andromeda Galaxy initially viewing through your 24mm. However, once visually in focus through an eyepiece, the degree of focus adjustment required for a camera is likely to be significant.

Astrophotography isn't easy and no disrespect intended but your equipment is limited at the budget end of the scale. I am not saying it is impossible, but it is more challenging .

Hi Mr. Noah,

Two nights ago when the sky is very clear, I tried to find Horsehead Nebula, but I don't know how to find it using SysnScan Pro mobile app. So I just find Altinak star and all I can see is pack of stars around it. I know that is not the correct way to do it as I told before I'm just messing around the 'try & error' thing. Not much tutorial found on Youtube. Will try again to find Orion Nebula & Andromeda Galaxy as suggested. Just need some help & guidance from experts here.

I also receive similar comments from others about attempting the DSO with my equipment is challenging. It's okay, it's not an offence at all. None taken, don't worry. Because when I purchased this equipment, my intention is only to familiarize with planetary imaging and maybe some of nightscapes (Milky Way) should be fine. Hopefully when I really understand how it works, then I can think of upgrading for DSO's. 

Thank you.

[waruna]

2 hours ago, adyj1 said:

This would be the case for a non-tracking mount, but this is a goto mount, so should easily manage 30-60s exposures. 

I would concentrate on making sure you are getting focus - view a bright star through the eyepiece and than switch to camera. Make sure you can focus 'through' the star, focusing in one direction and going from fuzzy blob to sharp pinprick back to fuzzy blob. Then focus back again and fine-tune until the star is as small as you can make it. 

If you can't even get a fuzzy blob, it may be that you don't have sharpcap set up correctly - I know that the wrong gain and/or exposure settings will mean you can't see anything. Let us know your settings to see if someone can help with that.

You should hopefully be able to get something! 

Ady 

Hi Mr. Adyj,

Firstly, forgive me if I misinterpreted your comment.

As for the stars like Sirius, Altair, Pollux and few more, I have no trouble viewing them. But I am yet to try switching the eyepiece to camera at have a look at SharpCap. Will do that trick possibly tonight (if weather permits).

Thank you.

[waruna]

1 hour ago, noah4x4 said:

It is true that 30 second exposures are feasible before rotational drift is an issue. But for other than the brightest DSOs you won't capture enough photons to produce a worthwhile image. I have adopted Hyperstar for that rreason. 

One reason I don't like generic applications like SharpCap is that focus, exposure and gain settings can be difficult for novices. I struggled for ages with I-Cap and my Celestron NexImage Burst camera. I also found SG Pro challenging.  This is where I think Atik has a distinct edge by bundling its own easy to use software for its camera range with helpful presets etc. 

I guess I need to study more on the exp and gain setting using software like SharpCap.

By the way, my SharpCap trial version has ended. Should I purchase the license or can you guys recommend me a good one for beginner like me? (free of paid don't matter)

Thank you.

[waruna]

1 hour ago, johninderby said:

I see that the max scope weight for your mount is 13lbs and the Skymax 150 OTA is over 12lbs without eyepiece or diagonal so stability could be an issue. 

Maybe. I've read about the mount and few comments I read somewhere else suggests that it's better to upgrade to EQ mount, which I cannot afford to upgrade it yet due to budget constraint. So maybe until I totally understand how it works, then I can start the saving program

But if it is stability issue, then is it fair to say that I have no chance what so ever to even do the nightscapes?

Thank you. 

[waruna]

1 hour ago, adyj1 said:

I think you are doing cheap AP a disservice when you say any image will not be worthwhile... When you've got cheap kit you don't (or at least shouldn't) expect fantastic images, but I've seen 'worthwhile' images captured on a smartphone with eyepiece projection. As long as expectations are reasonably set I see no reason not to get many worthwhile images of the brighter DSOs and globular clusters. 

Cheap AP is worthy! It's just a bit dimmer than expensive AP ? (ok, a lot dimmer, but you get my point ?) 

Actually, for starter, I don't mind getting dimmer object as long as can see the final result of the image  .. As I said before, I think upgrading is not a right option, at least not until I can understand the whole process.

Unless my equipment can't do anything even with planetary imaging, then I have no choice other than upgrading  

[The-MathMog]

What constitutes it being a disaster? Is the images just completely black, or is it all out of focus? Starting out, it is indeed a good idea to focus on the moon, as the focus will be pretty much the same for everything else in the sky.

But the moon is also very bright, so camera settings will need to be very different for other objects. Way longer exposure and higher gain.

As mentioned too, your mount is an Alt-Az mount, and is decent enough for photographing planets and the moon, but it gets hard when trying to do Deep Sky Objects. It is possible though.
I started out with an Alt-Az mount too, and found the longest exposures I could do was just short of 30 seconds. Enough for some of the brightest objects, and getting your head around astrophotography.
But if astrophotography is your main interest, then you should eventually look at getting an Equatorial mount and even a telescope with a shorter focal length, but as you said, don't do that quite yet. Get comfortable with your current setup, and spend time learning and observing. Figuring out what your expectations are

[Cosmic Geoff]

I have also dabbled with astrophotography using the kit in my signature.  I find that (by my standards) imaging the Moon and several planets is moderately successful, and imaging high brightness planetary nebulae is possible, but imaging globular clusters, star clusters and galaxies is a Fail.   I use the free version of Sharpcap.

Your Mak should be highly suitable for planetary imaging (for its aperture). As others have pointed out, an alt-az GoTo is just about adequate for planetary imaging,  but very limiting for deep-space.

By all means continue to experiment, but I suggest you set your expectations of deep-space  astrophotography with your current kit very low.

You should also buy the much recommended book "Making Every Photon Count" .

[adyj1]

@waruna, the focusing I am talking about is with the ZWO camera attached. You can carry on taking afocal images - nothing wrong with that, in fact getting a smartphone/camera holder will allow you to take longer exposures, but the next step is getting the camera directly attached and focused...

You may have installed a trial version of Sharpcap Pro - the regular version of Sharpcap is free...    I do agree with @noah4x4 that these apps have a steep learning curve (i.e. unless you tweak them you may not be able to see anything), so you will have to do a bit of work to get that sorted. 

Once you have sorted focusing you will then be able to see what your equipment is actually capable of.  I think you can forget images of the horsehead - concentrate on easy-to-capture bright objects.  With your equatorial location you've probably got a wide selection ?  What is your light pollution like?

Ady

[waruna]

22 hours ago, The-MathMog said:

What constitutes it being a disaster? Is the images just completely black, or is it all out of focus? Starting out, it is indeed a good idea to focus on the moon, as the focus will be pretty much the same for everything else in the sky.

But the moon is also very bright, so camera settings will need to be very different for other objects. Way longer exposure and higher gain.

As mentioned too, your mount is an Alt-Az mount, and is decent enough for photographing planets and the moon, but it gets hard when trying to do Deep Sky Objects. It is possible though.
I started out with an Alt-Az mount too, and found the longest exposures I could do was just short of 30 seconds. Enough for some of the brightest objects, and getting your head around astrophotography.
But if astrophotography is your main interest, then you should eventually look at getting an Equatorial mount and even a telescope with a shorter focal length, but as you said, don't do that quite yet. Get comfortable with your current setup, and spend time learning and observing. Figuring out what your expectations are

Hi Mr. MathMog,

Thanks for the comment. as for your 1st question, the images is full of white dots. I will try to upload it later.

Right now, I'm thinking of to stick with my equipment for planetary and moons, while at the same time have to work out on the budget to purchase DSLR & SW Star Adventurer for DSO & nightscapes. What do you think? Is it too complicated having 2 different set up, one for planetary & moon and another one for DSO & nightscapes?

Thank you.

[waruna]

22 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I have also dabbled with astrophotography using the kit in my signature.  I find that (by my standards) imaging the Moon and several planets is moderately successful, and imaging high brightness planetary nebulae is possible, but imaging globular clusters, star clusters and galaxies is a Fail.   I use the free version of Sharpcap.

Your Mak should be highly suitable for planetary imaging (for its aperture). As others have pointed out, an alt-az GoTo is just about adequate for planetary imaging,  but very limiting for deep-space.

By all means continue to experiment, but I suggest you set your expectations of deep-space  astrophotography with your current kit very low.

You should also buy the much recommended book "Making Every Photon Count" .

Hi Mr. Geoff,

Yes, moon and planets is very good so far. But I've read somewhere people said we (earth) are racing away from those popular three until July (I think). So they will continue t shrink in size.

Thanks for your constructive comment. Appreciate it very much. I will keep on going to experiment .

Thank you

[waruna]

22 hours ago, adyj1 said:

@waruna, the focusing I am talking about is with the ZWO camera attached. You can carry on taking afocal images - nothing wrong with that, in fact getting a smartphone/camera holder will allow you to take longer exposures, but the next step is getting the camera directly attached and focused...

You may have installed a trial version of Sharpcap Pro - the regular version of Sharpcap is free...    I do agree with @noah4x4 that these apps have a steep learning curve (i.e. unless you tweak them you may not be able to see anything), so you will have to do a bit of work to get that sorted. 

Once you have sorted focusing you will then be able to see what your equipment is actually capable of.  I think you can forget images of the horsehead - concentrate on easy-to-capture bright objects.  With your equatorial location you've probably got a wide selection ?  What is your light pollution like?

Ady

Hi Mr. Ady,

Okay I will try to install regular version of SharpCap. But what about FireCapture. Some said FireCapture is better than SharpCap in term of planetary, is it true?

And one more thing, may I ask, which bright objects is easier to capture for beginner like me? I live in suburbs area, so the light pollution is not in worst condition, gut a few from street lights as I normally do my session at the back of my house, no other lights other than that.

Thank you.

[Cosmic Geoff]

41 minutes ago, waruna said:

And one more thing, may I ask, which bright objects is easier to capture for beginner like me? I live in suburbs area, so the light pollution is not in worst condition, gut a few from street lights as I normally do my session at the back of my house, no other lights other than that.

Moon, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn, Venus, Mercury (a challenge), Uranus, Neptune (small and bland), M42 (brightest nebula), planetary nebulae: Cat's Eye,  NGC6210, NGC6572, double stars: Epsilon1 and Epsilon2 Lyrae, and other double stars of equal brightness down to 2" of arc separation.

My camera has twice as many pixels as yours and my C8 is a larger aperture than yours, so treat the above as a guide.

Be aware that with a telescope of 1800mm focal length, just getting an object (other than the Moon) onto the camera chip is a challenge (your GoTo will NOT be accurate enough), and getting the image in focus on the camera chip is also a challenge (it will be several turns of the focus knob away from the eyepiece focus.) It gets worse: You can't see if the image is on the chip or not unless it's in focus, and you can't focus unless the image is on the chip -"Catch 22".  You may find it helpful to get a 'flip mirror diagonal' that looks like this: https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/ovl-125-flip-mirror-system.html

Your ZWO camera should screw onto it, and an eyepiece in the top port should be roughly in focus (adjustable) when the camera is in focus.

 

[waruna]

Hi Mr. Geoff,

3 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Moon, Jupiter, Mars, Saturn, Venus, Mercury (a challenge), Uranus, Neptune (small and bland), M42 (brightest nebula), planetary nebulae: Cat's Eye,  NGC6210, NGC6572, double stars: Epsilon1 and Epsilon2 Lyrae, and other double stars of equal brightness down to 2" of arc separation.

My camera has twice as many pixels as yours and my C8 is a larger aperture than yours, so treat the above as a guide.Be aware that with a telescope of 1800mm focal length, just getting an object (other than the Moon) onto the camera chip is a challenge (your GoTo will NOT be accurate enough), and getting the image in focus on the camera chip is also a challenge (it will be several turns of the focus knob away from the eyepiece focus.) It gets worse: You can't see if the image is on the chip or not unless it's in focus, and you can't focus unless the image is on the chip -"Catch 22". 

Noted on that. That will be a challenge for me. I will try it once weather if superb.

 

3 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

You may find it helpful to get a 'flip mirror diagonal' that looks like this: https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/ovl-125-flip-mirror-system.html

Your ZWO camera should screw onto it, and an eyepiece in the top port should be roughly in focus (adjustable) when the camera is in focus.

So this way I don't have to switch between eyepiece and camera right?

[Galen Gilmore]

Use this website to check the field of view for many objects, I find it to be quite helpful.

FOV Calculator

[waruna]

16 hours ago, Galen Gilmore said:

Use this website to check the field of view for many objects, I find it to be quite helpful.

FOV Calculator

Hi Mr. Galen,

Thank you for the link. Wow I don't know there are such Imaging Tools available. 

Very helpful especially for me. Thanks a lot once again.!