A Theft, Check Your Insurance

[JamesF]

2 minutes ago, Oddsocks said:

My current insurance contain a similar clause that states "If undisclosed individual items of a replacement value of £1500 or above are damaged or stolen the underwriter reserves the right to reduce the total  repayment for all items lost or damaged in the claim by 50%"

I wonder if that means you could say to them "I have these items over £1500 in value, but I do not wish them to be covered by the policy" and then you'd be ok?

I bet they'd probably increase the premium anyhow on the grounds that having more expensive items, insured or otherwise, means you're at greater risk of being burgled.

James

[Gina]

I bet they would too James!

I don't take my astro kit away from home as my home site is adequate for imaging, though light pollution has increased considerably over the last few years.  Narrowband DSO imaging is little affected by light pollution but is affected by the dreaded contrails!

[spillage]

I can bet you that the minute you do this the police will then jump into action and arrest and prosecute you and you will have to pay compensation to the burglar.

[Oddsocks]

1 minute ago, JamesF said:

I bet they'd probably increase the premium anyhow on the grounds that having more expensive items, insured or otherwise, means you're at greater risk of being burgled.

James

I think they do James.

I once tried to get household and outbuilding contents insurance with Halifax and they would not insure the outbuildings contents at all once they knew what was in there. I had to take specialist insurance just for the outbuildings and that cost a small fortune.

[Moonshane]

I'd suggest it unlikely that a burglar would go to prison unless it's an aggravated/violent burglary. To be fair to the Police, they are excellent in general at 'solving' what most people would refer to as serious crime (murder, rape etc). Resources are limited as with most public services and I genuinely understand them focusing on such crime.

It's a good post though and it's certainly important to check the wording in your policy. 

[Gina]

I've always known insurance to be a racket and generally only insure the essentials.  You have to be careful or you end up paying far more in insurance over several years than your items are worth.  Bear in mind that insurance companies assess the risk and charge appropriately, then add on a lot of extra for their costs and profit.  Take the risk yourself and don't pay insurance companies through the nose!

[Rob]

Humm. I feel a mini project to canvass the Insurance firms to understand who actually offers 'REAL' cover on their policies!..

[upahill]

So sad reading posts like this - doesnt take very long for someone to ruin your equipment or worse steal it. We had a van locally that they couldn't get into so just torched. The mind boggles at what goes through their heads.

I got back from SGLSP and decided insurance would be a wise investment so phoned up and asked about it. They were a little concerned by my main building construction as its primarily wood, so I imagine if my gear ever goes walkies that will be the insurers first 'get-out'. I did make a point of clarifying about a dozen scenarios and asking what would be covered. Wanted to make sure it was expressly covered if I took gear off site, if it was in the shed, and if it was setup in the garden.

Reality is im probably wasting my money - only ever claimed once on insurance and it took 18 months, in the end I think they only paid out because I was calling every single day. ?

Hope you are back up and running at 100% soon.

We need a dedicated astro-insurer really.

[Rob]

It almost makes me think we are all better off spending the money on tough metal boxes/chest that could be bolted to a concrete floor in your shed/obs!

Oh, and invest in 1 or 2 IP wireless cameras.. most are decent HD 1080p for very little money

[Moonshane]

I sort of agree with Gina

I buy insurance for those things I cannot or cannot afford to replace or where there's a legal requirement to insure. My life, my house, my car, my contents. My astro gear is as far as I am aware insured through the main house policy but in truth I expect the insurance company to try and wriggle. It's important to insure the right value though as stated above. This is why I tend to prefer companies with standard terms which are always a lot more than I need in total.

[Moonshane]

Best bet is make it look like a standard shed with no security. Then the thinking (if such people even think) will be there's nothing of value likely to be in there!

[Gina]

Yes, I agree there.  I have the feeling that making things ultra secure and evidently so with visible alarms etc. only advertises the contents as worth stealing.

I have sold a lot of my most expensive astro kit and replaced with cheaper or reduced my astro coverage.  eg. gone from a triple imaging rig to dual (or even single) and gone over to wide field imaging with secondhand cheap SLR camera lenses.

[spillage]

I have always thought that security lights and large padlocks just shout out "expensive stuff in here that I do not want you to steal".

I think something more discrete is needed.

 

 

 

[Gina]

Oops - illegal!  But guess you were joking!

[Rob]

Sorry.. Yes I agree the lights / cameras advertise. I meant hide them outside & in.. that way you can at least grab some footage. I have them looking down the drive, and overseeing the garage door. They are not easy to see, but they see you! . They also fire footage to server in my computer room at work

[spillage]

6 minutes ago, Gina said:

Oops - illegal!  But guess you were joking!

Partially. I really think that if someone goes onto someones property with the intent of committing a crime then they should not have right to have the owners prosecuted for protecting themselves or property and reasonable force/action should be allowed (to an extent). I can always remember when a company advertised for smoke to be set off if your house gets broken into. Great idea as the trespasser cannot see anything to take. But they might trip and fall it was deemed unsafe and you might get taken to court by the burglar. I really think that we have turned into a nanny state at times. I do look at america and think if you did that there you would just get shot!!!! but here they carry on because the law seems to be more on their side. Sorry little rant over and going back into my box :))

[Grimbles]

1 hour ago, JamesF said:

Not a pleasant story in so many ways Whereabouts-ish in Somerset are you, Martin?  There was a spate of burglaries around here (south east edge of Exmoor) around the same time-frame if I recall correctly.  The local cricket pavilion was broken into amongst others, despite being lit up like a Christmas tree.

Clearly it hasn't occurred to insurance companies that if they don't pay out then there is no reason for them to exist (except for where insurance is legally or contractually required).  I know of a few bee-keepers who "self-insure" equipment by investing the money they'd otherwise have to pay to insurance companies because, basically, they don't trust the insurers.

Despite the proliferation of security lights it seems to me that noise is a far better deterrent against thieves, and it isn't necessary to own a big noisy dog to have the noise of a big noisy dog

James

Hi James

I am not a million miles from Frome, this happens every year locally, then the following week around Trowbridge the week after around Westbury, and it goes on, all you have to do is look at when the fairs are in each town.  This is not some random accusation it is verifiable 'coincidence' and apparently a very similar pattern can be traced around Dorset, the Police are fully aware but look at you with a blank expression and shrug their shoulders when you mention the 'coincidence', that has been happening annually for decades.

 

Martin

 

[Moonshane]

As always it's not so simple. You cannot lay traps as that's illegal. If they trip on something you'd reasonably expect to be there (like a bag) then they have no case. If you take extreme security measures, then you may need to add signage to prevent litigation. Anyway, this is getting a bit silly now so probably worth avoiding discussion about illegal retribution - not that I disagree with you, but this forum is not the right environment for airing such views. I've hidden a couple of bits (including my own reference to the dob trap) whilst not all of them as it's a decent thread.

[Gina]

Agreed - you have to stay within the law.

[upahill]

I think cameras are not a deterrent anymore - useful for showing your insurance company perhaps but ultimately they are foiled by a hat/mask/poor quality. Most home camera systems wouldnt stand up quality wise to a prosecution anyway. Same with locks / bars etc - if they want in they will get in. I think the only useful deterrant is the idea of being caught in the act and that means something that alerts the public or you to their presence - a bloomin loud siren. And a backup loud siren for if they find the first one. Change the mindset from 'what can we take' to 'how can we get away'.

For me I think its about making it as much of a pain to steal as possible.

8 minutes ago, spillage said:

Partially. I really think that if someone goes onto someones property with the intent of committing a crime then they should not have right to have the owners prosecuted for protecting themselves or property and reasonable force/action should be allowed (to an extent).

I think the biggest problem is that yes you could technically restrain/citizens arrest or whatever but what danger are you putting yourself in? Is it worth the risk - equipment can be replaced, you cant. You can be sure if you hurt an intruder the legal costs defending yourself would probably outweigh the cost of what they were going to steal.

[Stub Mandrel]

Actually, non-fatal mantraps are still legal in the UK. The relevant part of the 1861 offences against the person act is till in force:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/31

" A mantrap is a mechanical physical security device for catching poachers and trespassers. They have taken many forms, the most usual being like a large foothold trap, the steel springs being armed with teeth which met in the victim's leg. Since 1827, they have been illegal in England, except in houses between sunset and sunrise as a defence against burglars.^[1][2] "

Note well that they are only legal inside a house.

[Demonperformer]

All this reminds me of the story of the man who phoned the local police to say his shed was being burgled. They said there was no one available just now but would send someone as soon as possible. 

He phoned back 60 seconds later to say they didn't need to hurry as he had just shot the culprits.

Within five minutes, six police cars, a SWAT team and a police helicopter were on the scene. They caught the burglars red-handed.

"You said you had shot them," said one of the cops.

To which he responded: "You said no one was available!"

[JOC]

2 hours ago, Gina said:

It wasn't me who was burgled.  See OP

Oops....sorry OP - the comments hold for you too.

[Carbon Brush]

I have read through the posts. Empathised with those affected by theft and insurance companies (in my views) conning their way out of payment.

I have thought about adding some my insurance conman (sorry company) tales to the thread.

But no. Here is a suggestion.....

Is there anyone on SGL who has goods words for an insurer? If so shout now!

As it happens I have had a good response response to a claim in 1996. A mediocre response to a claim in 2017. Apart from that just money down the plughole.

[Paz]

I agree with the idea of trying to prevent anyone knowing you have anything of worth. Any half decent theif is going to steal anything they want and mostly get away with it.