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Highburymark

Better value night vision

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1 hour ago, ginandtonic said:

Right, Ok... I am thinking of getting the PVS-14 PHOTONIS 4G ECHO+ ~2000FOM WHITE PHOSPHOR AUTOGATED

http://nighttec.net/produkt/pvs-14-photonis-4g-echo-2000fom-white-phosphor-autogated-sale-copy/

Is this the one that you have?

There's no indication of the resolution in the description. It's just that I saw a video on youtube with amazing sharpness (supposedly 81 lp/mm).

Although I'm not sure such resolution is necessary for astronomical use...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW4rpxuFYgE&list=WL&index=10&t=0s

Are you located in Europe? The reason I ask is that the YouTube link you give is to a USA L3 filmless Gen 3 night vision monocular that you won’t be able to legally get in Europe due to itar legislation.

The photonis 4g night vision white phosphor tube (Gen 2 tech) is very nice (I have an intens version which has better specs than the echo +) but if you are based in Europe, I would suggest you also consider a harder digital Gen 3 fom 2100 monocular which is a similar price. Being Gen 3 it has significantly greater light amplification which from my experience (I also have a harder digital Gen 3 tube and have compared it with the photonis 4g side by side) gives more detailed visual views. There is more halo round the brightest stars with the harder and you do have to adjust the gain control more to reduce the scintillation to an acceptable level so it’s horses for courses. 

And on resolution 81lp/mm is overkill imo. Around 70 gives as much detail as you can really see for astro. Other tube specs such as snr, ebi and luminance gain are more important imo if the resolution is around 70.

Edited by GavStar

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29 minutes ago, GavStar said:

Are you located in Europe? The reason I ask is that the YouTube link you give is to a USA L3 filmless Gen 3 night vision monocular that you won’t be able to legally get in Europe due to itar legislation.

The photonis 4g night vision white phosphor tube (Gen 2 tech) is very nice (I have an intens version which has better specs than the echo +) but if you are based in Europe, I would suggest you also consider a harder digital Gen 3 fom 2100 monocular which is a similar price. Being Gen 3 it has significantly greater light amplification which from my experience (I also have a harder digital Gen 3 tube and have compared it with the photonis 4g side by side) gives more detailed visual views. There is more halo round the brightest stars with the harder and you do have to adjust the gain control more to reduce the scintillation to an acceptable level so it’s horses for courses. 

And on resolution 81lp/mm is overkill imo. Around 70 gives as much detail as you can really see for astro. Other tube specs such as snr, ebi and luminance gain are more important imo if the resolution is around 70.

Thanks Gavstar. Yes. I am in Europe. I saw your pics of the Barnard's loop, very impressive.

Any other accessories (lenses, etc) you recommend from TNVC apart from the adaptor? Does the adaptor fit on the Harder digital gen 3 without modifications?

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21 minutes ago, ginandtonic said:

Thanks Gavstar. Yes. I am in Europe. I saw your pics of the Barnard's loop, very impressive.

Any other accessories (lenses, etc) you recommend from TNVC apart from the adaptor? Does the adaptor fit on the Harder digital gen 3 without modifications?

Thank you! 

I also got the tnvc phone camera adapter which lets you use the televue fonemate with the pvs-14 monocular. If you order harder digital with the pvs-14 monocular then the tnvc adapters will work fine.

i don’t think you can order any other lens from tnvc due to itar. But you can get these from actinblack and I’m guessing also nighttec. The 3x afocal magnifier is worth considering despite the vignetting you get with this lens.

Edited by GavStar

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3 hours ago, ginandtonic said:

Right, Ok... I am thinking of getting the PVS-14 PHOTONIS 4G ECHO+ ~2000FOM WHITE PHOSPHOR AUTOGATED

http://nighttec.net/produkt/pvs-14-photonis-4g-echo-2000fom-white-phosphor-autogated-sale-copy/

Is this the one that you have?

There's no indication of the resolution in the description. It's just that I saw a video on youtube with amazing sharpness (supposedly 81 lp/mm).

Although I'm not sure such resolution is necessary for astronomical use...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW4rpxuFYgE&list=WL&index=10&t=0s

Couple of things: check with nighttec that they still have Echo+ tubes on sale. Also make sure that you get the features you want - some of the sale tubes that I looked at were green phosphor, not white phosphor which I wanted, and which Gavin and Alan  on this forum also recommend for astronomy. The guy I dealt with at Nighttec (Tom) will send you some example tube specs - there's lots of info on SGL about the tube specs to look for. A good Echo+ will be excellent - but may have a couple of spots - I found the price difference of the best Echo+ tubes compared with full 4G was relatively small - so I went for the 4G. However the prices were still well below other retailers I checked out. Speak to Tom and get as much information on what's available in your price range. Good luck.

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Resolution on any of these things will be fine. You can add a camera behind the tube, but you might need a relay lens to focus on the output screen... the phone (or other) camera option works nicely.  If you want robust threaded adaption then the TNVC adapter is the only option, if you like living a bit dangerously then you can always make up a pushfit adapter... just make sure the ep never points downwards (security strap advised!)

PEter

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One question: why don't you guys use a PVS-7 "biocular" , aren't two eyes better than one?

 

post-42357-0-57926700-1475344134.jpg

Quote

 

 

Edited by ginandtonic

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1 hour ago, ginandtonic said:

One question: why you guys don't use a PVS-7 "binocular" , aren't two eyes better than one?

 

post-42357-0-57926700-1475344134.jpg

 

I’ve never used a pvs-7 but according to experienced posters on cloudynights because of the way that the pvs-7 splits the light from the intensifier tube, the stars and nebulae are less sharp. And the pvs-7 doesn’t have manual gain control (unlike the pvs-14) which I think is critical to be able to ‘dial out’ the scintillation that you get at full gain. I never run at full gain with my pvs-14 - too much scintillation and the sky background is too bright.

Here’s an example CN thread or two..

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/613051-pvs-7-out-after-3-years-mod3-in/

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/562798-pvs-7-ac-vs-pvs-7-bd-vs-mod-3-with-l3-target-m43/

Edited by GavStar

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Two monoculars is better. Of course you could try a PVS7 (if you can find one)  on a suitable optic.. the one in the posture looks nice... someone I know has a 300mm f1.5 cat lens.... needless to say it’s hard to filter!

PEter

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The PVS7 is talked about more as a first device by the night vision specialists in the States - most move on to a monocular offering better performance and control. Though as Peter says, some with deep pockets buy two monoculars to make a superbino. However night vision is cheaper over there. PVS7s can apparently be found secondhand for around $1000

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Gavin has two NV binoculars and a pair of binoviewers...... ?

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4 minutes ago, Stu said:

Gavin has two NV binoculars and a pair of binoviewers...... ?

That hasn’t escaped my notice Stu! ? I’ve been told they work pretty well just putting both to each eye at the same time - easy to get them broadly into line apparently...

Edited by GavStar

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Tried that with 2x multipliers when I was waiting for the printed housing to be printed. Should be easy to sort something out as long as you can keep the 2 halves from rotating round their 1/4-20 threads.

Peter

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22 minutes ago, GavStar said:

That hasn’t escaped my notice Stu! ? I’ve been told they work pretty well just putting both to each eye at the same time - easy to get them broadly into line apparently...

A pair of 40mm TV Plossls might work quite well? They have the dioptrix compatibility and should keep things quite fast. The FC100 should have enough in focus to use natively.

Just sayin’ ;)

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We have talked about LARGE custom bins before haven’t we.... thought it was going to be TEC140s...

PEter

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3 hours ago, Stu said:

A pair of 40mm TV Plossls might work quite well? They have the dioptrix compatibility and should keep things quite fast. The FC100 should have enough in focus to use natively.

Just sayin’ ;)

Looks like it has been tried already in the States and the verdict is that the pvs-7 is a better approach for binocular night vision...

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/492020-image-intensifying-or-night-vision-device/?p=6472369

I’ve just added up the cost of what would be hanging off the end of the scope and it’s made my legs go a bit like jelly....I don’t want to think about that lot crashing to the ground. ???

Edited by GavStar
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Bungee straps and a very shaggy bit of shagpile to cushion things. Remember NV tubes are designed to be put on guns. Not that I would recommend testing things against gravity!

Peter

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