Total novice to this, but..

[timwetherell]

Not even sure if this is the right place to ask, but anyway  I have a 7" refractor that I've used almost exclusively for visual observing for many years now. I'd been wondering about getting a bigger aperture scope  but talking to some friends I've started to wonder if another option would be some sort of CCD based real time imaging. The ideal thing would be a big ultra sensitive CDD live feeding a small high res display in more or less real time. In some ways I'm quite surprised I haven't seen such a thing available - perhaps they are? I'd really appreciate any help and advice anyone could offer as to what would be a good camera etc? At this point I don't even know if I want something like a mirrorless DSLR or a dedicated astro camera. The main requirement is that it's relatively stand alone, I don't really want to have to run PCs in the observatory or get heavily into astro imaging, just looking for a light boost!  I'm pretty rubbish at football so don't have David Beckham's budget, but would probably stretch to a couple of grand ish if needs be.

[lenscap]

There is the Revolution Imager;

 

 

[JamesF]

If I understand your intentions correctly then perhaps the Mallincam website might be worth a look.  Some of their cameras have a direct S-video output.  I know the Xtreme and Xterminator do, but perhaps others too.

I think Point Grey used to produce similar (video output) cameras with decent spec sensors too, but I'm not sure what's happening since they were bought by FLIR.  I only have dealings with them relating to supporting the Point Grey cameras on Linux, but I'm underwhelmed at the responses I've had thus far.

James

[shirva]

Good thing about video astronomy is you can go from diy to as expensive as you can afford,,also there are various techniques in doing it as well.

The equipment and techniques are dependent on what you want to see.

Going back a few years analogue was the weapon of choice and cctv cameras were adapted for astronomy use,, watec 902h camera's,, very sensitive,, used extensively for meteor capture,, one of the main work horses was and still used is the Samsung scb2000, it has a 1/3 sensor and integration to 512 ( exposure),, powered by 12v dc and by removing the factory fitted ir filter made a great video camera for astronomy, the Av feed could be put to a monitor or TV for live/ near live viewing,, the use of a usb video Grabber allowed the image to be recorded to a computer, the ln300 became more popular ,it was smaller and had double the integration 1024 this was the first camera in the revolution cameras range put together by mike at oc telescopes,, ken James ( dragonman) was a tester for the revolution cameras and has a few utube videos on them.

Along came usb cameras and mallincam made  some of the first to add to the highly successful mallincam analogue camera's like the exterminator and extreme,, 

Zwo has joined the many camera suppliers and do an extensive range,, Altair astro and many more, zwo has released the asi air that may be of interest,, it is a stand alone concept that can transmit images from its usb 3 camera's to tablets ect.

Dslr camera's with live view can be used,, tethered to a laptop and using backyard eos or Nikon,, and stacking ect done via astrotoaster software,,

A camfi WiFi control unit can wirelessly transmit live images from a dslr to a smartphone,tablet or pc.

Hopefully some information may be relevant.

Davy

[timwetherell]

16 hours ago, JamesF said:

If I understand your intentions correctly then perhaps the Mallincam website might be worth a look.  Some of their cameras have a direct S-video output.  I know the Xtreme and Xterminator do, but perhaps others too.

 

Mmm, some interesting stuff on there. One of the micro cameras might be very much the thing!

[shirva]

To dabble with analogue camera's,, I would check eBay out for a cheap scb2000,, I've bought one as low as £25,, but can easily still get to nearly £100.

Bit of diy,, remove factory fitted ir filter,, fit a c to a 1.25 adapter,, and 12v power supply and your good to go,, if you like what you see then,, you could add a usb video Grabber and save images to a pc..

Very rarely do we hear of folk going back to analogue but it's good to hear,, video astronomy with latest kit and techniques are ,, just about,, astrophotography at times,, 

I just do what makes me happy and cross between both,, 

[RobertI]

Some great suggestions above. I am working on the assumption that you do not know much about imaging (I wouldn't claim to be an expert either!) but it may be worth understanding a bit more about what kinds of objects you are wanting to view and what you are wanting to get out of it? For instance, are you after nice colour images of the brighter deep sky objects to share with friends or are you wanting to track down really faint elusive fuzzies? I think its worth thinking about because, different camera scope combinations excel at different things (stating the obvious I know!). A setup which is great at showing the Lagoon Nebula in glorious colour may be utterly useless at revealing the fainter Owl Nebula.

Now I will say up front that I have only ever had experience of USB CCD cameras, but I wouldn't discount the laptop approach. My feeling is that a cheap battery powered laptop running some live capture software with a camera attached via a USB cable is pretty simple and stress free and can support a really nice camera/scope combination. Most of the incovenience for me comes from the setup of the scope, alignment, focussing, framing, etc, which you get whatever camera you use. For me the laptop is a minor issue! But  I know there are many equally valid opinions out there. 

I use a very sensitive Lodestar mono USB camera, relatively low resolution and has a small sensor, but is very sensitive and perfect for tracking down really small, faint DSOs, typically down to mag 20 under my average skies and reveals a surpirisng amount of detail. But its useless for showing the Lagoon Nebula in glorious colour.

Another thing to consider is the scope - if your refractor is an achromat, the stars might look bloated and a bit disappointing. If you cannot get down to F4 or F5 you might find you cannot get bright enough images. 

And then of course there is the 'Night Vision' (NV) option, which reveal some fantastic faint detail directly through the eyepiece, but costs £thousands. There are some recent posts in the Observing Section which show what is possible. If I had the money I would definitely be giving that a go! 

I guess the safe option is to go for a cheapish camera setup to start with and see what you like and dislike about the camera and the whole EAA/Video experience. As with many things you'll probably end up going in a direction you had never considered. 

Bit of a ramble but hope that's food for thought. 

[timwetherell]

16 hours ago, RobertI said:

Some great suggestions above. I am working on the assumption that you do not know much about imaging

Yes, that would be a correct assumption!  I'm a fairly experienced visual observer but know next to diddly about astrophotography.  My thinking is that the 7" has about all the resolution the UK's skies will support 99% of evenings but it's not really much of a deep sky scope compared to something like a 16" sct or 20" newt. I don't have the money or the space for a second deep sky scope so I'd toyed with the idea of selling the 7" to get a c14 but that brings with it as many problems as it solves. I was visiting friends recently and they showed me a sony dslr they use for live video projection at outreach events and it got me thinking that if I could digitally boost the light levels of the 7" to that of an 18" it could offer a solution within a reasonable budget? My dream device would be a 1" sensor with electronics to give a live update to a high resolution miniature display (perhaps integrating over 1/2 second) with magnifier, all built into a neat self contained 2" eyepiece for less than a grand. That's probably asking way too much, but something along those lines would be ideal. I'd imagine within 5 to 10 years it will be possible to get them off the shelf but for now it may have to be a cobble together job  Your Lodestar mono USB camera sounds interesting! i'm not particularly bothered about colour but say for example it would be nice to see the central star of M57, or moons of uranus and the spiral structure of brighter galaxies. 

[shirva]

Definitely go usb camera and laptop,,  given what you would like,, this is the way you should look to go,

Sensor's on the modern camera's are bigger and better than what was available during our time using analogue,, I don't think the analogue route would suit your needs or impress you,,  zwo have probably the widest range of cameras available and there back up is good as well.

And there are lots of folk using zwo camera's and tons of great information available, via forums, websites and Facebook pages.