Starter set up advice

[Extreme007]

Hi everyone

Very new member to the forum and astronomy ( so be gentle ?) although been reading a lot of the threads and other books for months to try and upskill. I know a lot more than I did about scopes and mounts etc but I know that's not much!  Still we all have to start somewhere. Anyway darker skies are approaching so I am considering an initial set up for observation with a view to DS and imaging somewhere down the line. Anyway your advice and views would be appreciated. I am looking at a skywatcher 130pds with AZ4 mount for viewing to build my knowledge and experience of the skies. I was going to purchase the NEQ6 and 130PDS or 200pds but decided to take it steady initially. I know I need a few other things, eyepieces,  barlow, collimator etc but greatful for your views on the scope and mount as a simple starter grab and go before I pull the trigger. I chose the 130PDS rather than another newtonian as it gets good reviews for imaging which would hopefully be my next step sometime in the future with approprate mount and tracker etc. Any comments or advice gratefully received. Many thanks for reading and apologies for yet another new equipment thread for newbies!

[Anthonyexmouth]

If budget allows it may be worth considering an heq5. It will allow you to grow without feeling restricted. Would be good for the 130 and later with a small refractor for some photographs. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

1 hour ago, Extreme007 said:

a skywatcher 130pds with AZ4 mount

Regardless of what you want to buy later, this would make a superb grab'n go setup. If you just leave the spreader tray off the AZ-4, it can be ready for use as soon as you get it outside. And unlike a lot of mounts that come with beginner scopes, it's a solid mount that will stably support scopes up to 7Kg.

By contrast, it can take a lot longer to get an equatorial mount assembled, aligned and ready for use.  A NEQ6 is definitely not grab'n go. Have you checked the weight of it?

[Extreme007]

58 minutes ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

If budget allows it may be worth considering an heq5. It will allow you to grow without feeling restricted. Would be good for the 130 and later with a small refractor for some photographs. 

Thanks Anthony. Do you think I need a eq mount at this time as a starter? That was one of my quandries I originally considered the eq5 and heq5 but some say they are difficult to set up and so it put me off!

[Anthonyexmouth]

1 minute ago, Extreme007 said:

Thanks Anthony. Do you think I need a eq mount at this time as a starter? That was one of my quandries I originally considered the eq5 and heq5 but some say they are difficult to set up and so it put me off!

not difficult at all, its just a process you learn and will be a good skill to have. Yes setting up for photography can take a little longer but the benefits of starting with an EQ i think out weigh the learning curve. for visual use setup time is very quick. 

[Extreme007]

7 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Regardless of what you want to buy later, this would make a superb grab'n go setup. If you just leave the spreader tray off the AZ-4, it can be ready for use as soon as you get it outside. And unlike a lot of mounts that come with beginner scopes, it's a solid mount that will stably support scopes up to 7Kg.

By contrast, it can take a lot longer to get an equatorial mount assembled, aligned and ready for use.  A NEQ6 is definitely not grab'n go. Have you checked the weight of it?

Thanks Geoff. You are right re the neq6 weight. I was only considering now to future proof and save double purchasing. Others have said it is a beast and a good one for imaging with the 130 or 200 pds. But on second thoughts i thought it wad a step too soon. Thanks for you comments re my suggested scope and mount. I did read lots of positives about both albeit not always together. Thanks again.

[Extreme007]

1 minute ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

not difficult at all, its just a process you learn and will be a good skill to have. Yes setting up for photography can take a little longer but the benefits of starting with an EQ i think out weigh the learning curve. for visual use setup time is very quick. 

Thanks. So no issues using an eq mount for general observing then? Can I just balance and then go?

[Anthonyexmouth]

for visual a rough polar align and basic balance and you're ready to do your 2 star alignment . balance and polar alignment become critical when imaging. the more you do it the quicker you get. 

[Anthonyexmouth]

If you can mark the ground with a dot where you set up where the tripod legs rest when polar aligned then setting up is a doddle for visual. 

[Extreme007]

Thanks Anthony. That is very helpful.

[happy-kat]

Add far as I have read the heq5 mount head only moves through use of the handset buttons. I'd find that annoying for visual use let alone it is big and heavy.

[Anthonyexmouth]

the other benefit of an HEQ5 is that its something thats very popular and if astro aint for you it'll sell without losing you too much money. also you wont outgrow it, its fully functioning. easy to connect to eqmod for laptop control, the only reason to upgrade is to go bigger which isnt always needed.

[Louis D]

How easy is it to pick up a fully assembled HEQ5 to move it to work around ground obstacles like trees and bushes?  It seems like it would be kind of top heavy.

[Anthonyexmouth]

6 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Add far as I have read the heq5 mount head only moves through use of the handset buttons. I'd find that annoying for visual use let alone it is big and heavy.

its really not that heavy. yes you use the handset but having go-to is a real boon and slewing with the buttons is fast and accurate. 

[Anthonyexmouth]

9 minutes ago, Louis D said:

How easy is it to pick up a fully assembled HEQ5 to move it to work around ground obstacles like trees and bushes?  It seems like it would be kind of top heavy.

its top heavy but only if you pick it up from the bottom. why move it fully assembled anyway? attach the scope when its in place, takes seconds to attach

[vlaiv]

Have both AZ4 and HEQ5.

AZ4 is indeed grab'n'go depending on type of scope put on it.

HEQ5 is no where near grab'n'go setup. It is more, have multiple trips to selected location, spend at least 15 minutes assembling, 5 minutes balancing and adjusting and at least 10-15 minutes aligning the thing. Once assembled, adjusted and aligned - don't move until the end of session setup

Sure you can maneuver tripod and head together to some extent around the place (although I setup in pieces - first tripod, then head, then polar align, then CW and scope at the end)  but I would not try that with counterweight on, and certainly not with scope and counterweights on. Depending on scope and CWs used - polar align it self could be really hard to do, alt bolts are tough to use with no additional weight on mount head (many people end replacing them for this reason - az are much easier to tweak).

[Anthonyexmouth]

Id agree on balancing time and polar alignment time for imagining but for visual my experience is under 5-10 mins and good to go. 

[vlaiv]

Let me put it this way:

AZ4 + 130PDS = 8.5kg + 4kg = 12.5 kg (even lighter on aluminum tripod, but less stable).

Heq5 + 5kg CW + 130PDS = 15kg + 5kg + 4kg = 24kg (and I did not account for power supply)

[Paul67]

Gotto say from my perspective, I am so glad I didn't opt for goto for visual observing. It is very satisfying to hunt around the skys with good old fashioned star maps, brings the explorer out in you

If that sounds like your bag, then the AZ4 mount would be my choice.

Oh, one more thing, a pair of 8*42 bino's will really help pop the stars out under light poluted sky's to find your way around.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Anthonyexmouth said:

why move it fully assembled anyway?

I do this all the time with both my 8" Dob and my dual mount alt-az setup because my backyard has only a 15 to 20 degree clear view between the houses and the trees now that they've matured.  By moving around, I can get a better westerly, northerly,  or easterly view at the expense of my southerly view depedning on where I setup the scope(s).  I don't try this with my 15" Dob, though.  It does best being assembled in place.

[happy-kat]

I'll add it is not uncommon in time to have more than one mount so if visual is your thing stick with easy setup aimed at visual use, later on get a different mount new or second hand for imaging. If it is too heavy or more time consuming to set up any slight cloud and you may well not bother to try and observe. Grab and go has advantages.

[cletrac1922]

11 hours ago, happy-kat said:

Add far as I have read the heq5 mount head only moves through use of the handset buttons. I'd find that annoying for visual use let alone it is big and heavy.

Skywatcher just have made it lot more simpler

Been using now for a few months

Wi-Fi adaptor now available for EQ5, HEQ6, HEQ6

Download APP to your mobile device or tablet

Once done star alignment, just aim your device where want to observe, and mount goes there

 

 

[Stu]

If you want to learn the sky and not get put off by having to set up a heavy mount each time, then getting the 130PDS/AZ4 or AZ5 would definitely make sense to me. This combination will show you plenty and will get you out looking far more often.

Yes, setting up an EQ for visual is relatively quick, I use one myself for planetary, lunar and solar observing, but navigating around the sky and star hopping is much less intuitive than with an AltAz, and the eyepiece on a Newt  ends up in all sorts of awkward places.

This 130/Az setup will remain relevant and useable even if you do move to an EQ for imaging. Oh, and one more thing.... remaining a visual astronomer and NOT moving to imaging is no less an achievement, there is a lifetime of satisfaction to be had in visual astronomy. (Can you tell I’m visual only? )

[Cosmic Geoff]

Time and motion study ?: Setup time depends on the number of operations you have to carry out, each one adding to the total time. So the more fetching, carrying, assembling, and adjusting you have to do, the longer it will all take.

I found that to get a telescope on a manual RA-powered EQ-5 and ready to use consistently took around 15 minutes.  (Tripod, spreader tray, counterweight, battery, OTA, accessories, rough align, fiddle fiddle) Getting an alt-az GoTo system ready to use can be quicker - it depends how practiced you are and how many actions you can eliminate.  Carrying a complete C8SE/mount/Starsense assembly out to a patio and getting it going takes only a few minutes.

But for grab'n go, carry out AZ-4, ignore the spreader-tray, attach OTA and uncover - very quick!

Imaging setups take longer - I have seen others quote 40 minutes, and to get my C8 ready for planetary imaging, elevated to cope with low planet/high fence, all imaging gear present and connected, camera focused using a star, takes half an hour.  One starts to see the attraction of that expensive home observatory, or leaving the mount in place.?

[Extreme007]

20 hours ago, Paul67 said:

Gotto say from my perspective, I am so glad I didn't opt for goto for visual observing. It is very satisfying to hunt around the skys with good old fashioned star maps, brings the explorer out in you

If that sounds like your bag, then the AZ4 mount would be my choice.

Oh, one more thing, a pair of 8*42 bino's will really help pop the stars out under light poluted sky's to find your way around.

Thanks for the advice. Really helpful. Think I will end up with some level of photography as I am a keen photographer. But I believe I need to know more about the subjects first hence wanting not to start too big.