Veil neb,faint observations

[jetstream]

I'm intrigued by pioneering members with their night vision and what they can see. One thing is beyond a doubt, that NV opens up opportunity from less than dark skies. It also is giving some great views from dark ones.

So here we are, a few observations old school and hopefully some input by those with more modern technology. The scope used by me for the Veil here is the 15" f4.8 and my sky is 21.8 mag plus and at least NELM 6.8, still working on the NELM obs.

This borrowed image shows some very faint features in the Veil above the underlines and the faint wisp with long underline, is very faint That wisp is near my limit with the 15". Thoughts?

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[alanjgreen]

I will have to specifically check next time with the big dob. As the veil does not fit in the fov, I will have to nudge on down under there to see what's there.

Also remember that night vision sees red, emission nebulas are best. These supernova remnants are a bit "pot luck" - depends how much red there is?

i have seen the twisted pair of the thin thread really clearly on my best night, I never saw that in the 20" without night vision.

[jetstream]

3 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

I will have to specifically check next time with the big dob. As the veil does not fit in the fov, I will have to nudge on down under there to see what's there.

Also remember that night vision sees red, emission nebulas are best. These supernova remnants are a bit "pot luck" - depends how much red there is?

i have seen the twisted pair of the thin thread really clearly on my best night, I never saw that in the 20" without night vision.

Excellent Alan.

The thin thread is visible easily here as is the 3rd split in the broom, which I reported in previous threads, from a while back.

[alanjgreen]

1 minute ago, jetstream said:

Excellent Alan.

The thin thread is visible easily here as is the 3rd split in the broom, which I reported in previous threads, from a while back.

I have seen the third split without NV using the 20" and ethos 21. 

- I have also seen it with NV too.

The veil is just not one of the best objects to pick to compare NV to non-NV. NV does not take this object to another level.

Emission nebula are revolutionary using NV. I am now seeing many sharpless clear as day and another example would be the bubble, clear as day that I had no chance with before I got NV. The wizard is seen as a flying horse. The heart and Soul are unbelievable!

sh2-157 was superb in the 107mm frac the other night. Bet I could not see that in the 20" without NV - I would have to check as I have only become a serious sharpless searcher since June.

I am building a catalogue of my favourite Sharpless as I make my way following The Astrophotography Sky Atlas by Bracken (great book by the way).

Alan

[jetstream]

SH 157, the Lobster Claw neb is a favorite visited often. I see both claws and associated nebulosity such as LBN544 which I obs last night again. I made a serious attempt for the actual bubble in the Bubble neb, no go.

I use Vogels Sharpless map and see this neb as the image does, but with some parts almost undetectable. This is on page 293 of his catalog. Do you have his maps?

http://www.reinervogel.net/index_e.html

edit: I'm refering to the black and white image.

[alanjgreen]

35 minutes ago, jetstream said:

SH 157, the Lobster Claw neb is a favorite visited often. I see both claws and associated nebulosity such as LBN544 which I obs last night again. I made a serious attempt for the actual bubble in the Bubble neb, no go.

I use Vogels Sharpless map and see this neb as the image does, but with some parts almost undetectable. This is on page 293 of his catalog. Do you have his maps?

http://www.reinervogel.net/index_e.html

Yes, but I saw it in a 107mm scope (at only x12 magnification). What aperture did you have?

 

sh2-157 in the 20" with Night Vision is just a "wow" there is so much to see in all directions. On 17th July (on a summer light sky night) I wrote:

Sh2-157 – Beautiful large shape that had to be nudged to see the whole thing. It really looked like a “Heart”. There was a small bright blob seen inside the upper part of the “heart”. The uneventful patch shown in sky safari did not do justice at all to this fantastically detailed nebula. I encourage everyone to google an image of this nebula – it’s wonderful!

 

No, I dont use Vogels, I just have the Bracken Sky Atlas open and Sky Safari (connected to Nexus push-to on the dob - but many Sharpless are missing from Sky Safari )

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Astrophotography-Sky-Atlas-Charles-Bracken/dp/1517687802

I just added GOTO to the frac, so I can at least navigate to SAO stars or NGC/IC near Sharpless objects (identified in Sky Safari) to get them quickly in the FOV. I have a bad back and using the frac on manual mount forced me to pretend to ba a "contortionist" as I tried to look through the eyepiece while pushing/pulling at the mount! Much more comfortable now to just stand back and wait for the slew to finish (even the Mrs can have a go!)

 

[alanjgreen]

22 minutes ago, jetstream said:

 I made a serious attempt for the actual bubble in the Bubble neb, no go.

The bubble was fantastic in the 20", I can see the whole complex of nebulosity with a clear black bubble central.

On 17th July (summer sky), I noted:

Time to BLOW THE BUBBLE!

55mm Plossl & 6nm filter – With the increased speed offered by using the 55mm Plossl, the whole Bubble nebula appeared. There was now  a long upper section reaching out towards a third star. I began to realize that I had oriented myself incorrectly and the two stars I thought were the Bubble stars were in fact not them. The second star was further away and the scale of the object was much larger than I had anticipated! As I turned down the gain on the NVD, the bubble appeared and it was BIG. I held the image from Sky Safari in my hand to the side of the eyepiece and finally got the two to match. Literally, I could see “everything” that was in the image. Amazing, I smiled with satisfaction. Bubble Nebula = CHECK!

 

I had a crack in the 107mm the other night in poor conditions and could just about make out the tiny tiny bubble at x12 magnifiation. I need to increase the magnification as best I can (you need low magnification for high speed focal ratio, without this the exit pupil is too small and the image is too dark. Night Vision benefits from as big an exit pupil as you can manage to throw at it), I will report on a future outing (weather permitting of course) - but i reckon that it is doable with 107mm aperture. The ever darkening skies will help too.

 

[jetstream]

I observe this nebula using fracs of 90mm to 120mm using the Lumicon OIII and 42mm LVW. Using multiple scopes gives different presentations with the larger 15" pulling out smaller detail. The 200mm f3.8 newt also works well here. This object is a favorite of mine with years spent on it.

[alanjgreen]

15 minutes ago, jetstream said:

I observe this nebula using fracs of 90mm to 120mm using the Lumicon OIII and 42mm LVW. Using multiple scopes gives different presentations with the larger 15" pulling out smaller detail. The 200mm f3.8 newt also works well here. This object is a favorite of mine with years spent on it.

From the UK, I wager there is no way you will see sh2-157 in a 4" frac without night vision but I am happy for someone to shout up and say they have done it! (Its not a competition & I offer no prize if you have done it )

[jetstream]

For some of this stuff the telescope does matter, my 90mm f7 triplet APO does not do as well as the SW120ED which is a great DSO scope. Eye illumination is critical as well. I don't compete but like to share obs with other observers as we all can learn from others experience. Scarp15 is an excellent observer and with truly dark sites who sees things much as I do, limited a bit perhaps because of time constraints and conditions.

I am fortunate to be semi retired and in a dark location so I observe a lot, which is a huge advantage.

Last night the Swan nebula riveted my attention, with a bright, eerily light green mottling around and just below the neck. It reminded me of a smaller more subtle core of M42.  So many objects and features to explore...

[Stu]

12 minutes ago, jetstream said:

For some of this stuff the telescope does matter, my 90mm f7 triplet APO does not do as well as the SW120ED which is a great DSO scope. Eye illumination is critical as well. I don't compete but like to share obs with other observers as we all can learn from others experience. Scarp15 is an excellent observer and with truly dark sites who sees things much as I do, limited a bit perhaps because of time constraints and conditions.

I am fortunate to be semi retired and in a dark location so I observe a lot, which is a huge advantage.

Last night the Swan nebula riveted my attention, with a bright, eerily light green mottling around and just below the neck. It reminded me of a smaller more subtle core of M42.  So many objects and features to explore...

Great to have some more reports from you Gerry, I’m always fascinated to read what can been seen just with the eye, unaided at the eyepiece of a scope under truly dark skies. Being a largely suburban observer, separating the Witch’s Broom into two using my TV Genesis whilst down in Dorset is about as good as I get! I do have a few more tools in the armoury now though so hopefully things will look up.

[RobertI]

I'm just starting to investigate the Sharpless catalogue, as they seem well suited to my (relatively) wide field grab and go EAA setup. From what I can gather sh2-157 is about 1.5 degrees across so should just about fit in the FOV, so I shall be sniffing out this interesting looking  object next time out.  

[alanjgreen]

1 hour ago, RobertI said:

I'm just starting to investigate the Sharpless catalogue, as they seem well suited to my (relatively) wide field grab and go EAA setup. From what I can gather sh2-157 is about 1.5 degrees across so should just about fit in the FOV, so I shall be sniffing out this interesting looking  object next time out.  

Rob,

Check out the Bracken Atlas linked above. It's a great help in finding and charting your sessions. All the usual objects are removed and only the imaging targets are shown.

All the Sharpless objects are shown on the maps, their size and shapes etc. Their colour and shading indicates the nebula type and brightness - it really is very good. 

There are pages and pages of catalogue tables at the back too.

Alan

[RobertI]

11 hours ago, alanjgreen said:

Rob,

Check out the Bracken Atlas linked above. It's a great help in finding and charting your sessions. All the usual objects are removed and only the imaging targets are shown.

All the Sharpless objects are shown on the maps, their size and shapes etc. Their colour and shading indicates the nebula type and brightness - it really is very good. 

There are pages and pages of catalogue tables at the back too.

Alan

Thanks Alan, that looks really good. Unfortunately the Amazon preview does not show a preview of the charts, so I cannot see how it compares to Interstellarum, which I already have and does seem to show many of the Sharpless. I downloaded a Skysafari observing list of Sharpless but its pretty useless as the actual objects are not in Skysafari so cannot see what they look like, only where they are. I'll see if I can get some more inside views if the Bracken catalogue so I can decide whether to buy. ?

[PeterW]

A small section of Bracken for the end of Cygnus. It plots a reasonable number of stars, but leaves out most of the little galaxies, this is a Nebula book.

Peter

[RobertI]

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

A small section of Bracken for the end of Cygnus. It plots a reasonable number of stars, but leaves out most of the little galaxies, this is a Nebula book.

Peter

Thanks Peter, very useful, I'll compare to Interstellarum (might even include a page scan of the equivalent area for everyone's interest). On initial glance there seem to be a lot more Sharpless (as expected I guess).

[PeterW]

Only 300 or so, but Sharpless like Messier didnt survey the southern skies, so we have Gum too. Also Lynds has also had a go too. You’ll find one number and several patches sometimes... can be annoying.

Peter

[PeterW]

Interstalellarum for the same area, more stars, bigger scale, more (and different) objects, though some Sharpless are missing (but dark nebulae are plotted). Bracken selected for photographically interesting, Interstellarum for stuff you can see visually in different kit. 

PEter

 

[jetstream]

14 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Interstalellarum for the same area, more stars, bigger scale, more (and different) objects, though some Sharpless are missing (but dark nebulae are plotted). Bracken selected for photographically interesting, Interstellarum for stuff you can see visually in different kit. 

PEter

 

The map shows another fainter section of SH2 91 that I can just make out at times, right near 9 Cyg, been trying to pull this one out in continuous direct vision for quite a while.

[RobertI]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Interstalellarum for the same area, more stars, bigger scale, more (and different) objects, though some Sharpless are missing (but dark nebulae are plotted). Bracken selected for photographically interesting, Interstellarum for stuff you can see visually in different kit. 

PEter

Thanks Peter, very interesting to see the differences between the two maps, and a good point about one being for imaging and one for visual. I suppose SH2 91 is a good example - in Interstellarum it's shown as two thin strands and an OIII filter is recommended, in Bracken it's more extended, and in one part only (presumably as you might see if imaging)  and I guess an Ha filter would be recommended for imaging. I think the Bracken is definitely worth getting if imaging (or EAA) of Sharpless objects is the goal.

[scarp15]

As Gerry had mentioned, it is worth uploading the Reiner Vogel Sharpless pdf. The descriptions and charts for each object convey a good account for visual astronomy. You can cross reference these with your Interstellarum, for which as stated, many are absent so filling in the gaps. I have printed out selective pages for reference. Before considering attempting sh2-91, observe other nebulae structures, it is difficult but placement is straight forward and repeated attempts may gain definition. An OIII filter as you suggest is necessary and it goes without say that very good transparency and optimum location is required. 

[PeterW]

I have taken Reiners overview images and then colour inverted them... black becomes  white and red (nebulosity) becomes blue... which is seen as black when used with a red Astro torch. I use them as a way to check what I am seeing. Not a fan of the charts in Reiners book, but his notes are helpful.

PEter