Pillars of Creation, SH2 91

[jetstream]

Its been a long time since I had the chance for some serious deep sky observing and the recent storms cleared the sky for some terrific viewing tonight. Using Ursa Minor for some naked eye star reference a couple of nice stars popped out including the standby 20 Ursa Minor,6.3 mag in direct vision. Rolling my eye around that area produced HIP 77942 6.8 mag in averted vision, a pretty good sky for DSO with the superb 15" Ostahowski mirror...

A discussion with a few friends led me back to the Eagle nebula, where I thought I saw the pillars previously but didn't pay much attention then. Tonight I confirmed seeing the dark "knot" of the Pillars using the 20mm Lunt and also the 18 mm E82/UHC and thought that a hint of structure in rolling averted vision presented.

Next up was SH2 91, a favorite hard target. Well it came immediately in direct vision with the OIII and gave an extended length with wider section showing near the "end" of the wisp all this near 12 Cygni and there was some very faint nebulosity coming and going in averted, hopefully some more repetition will bring it into direct. This area keeps giving more up...

The Zeiss zoom was enlisted for a try on M57 central star, previously showing best in the 7mm KK ortho, and still does. The zoom grabbed the central star and I couldn't hold it long, just fleeting glimpses, but there none the less.

I finished the session by observing the Double Double naked eye which I can see and tonight gave a very clear dark gap between the stars, this is reassuring to know the eyes are still working well. Tomorrow brings more tree clearing as the recent storms brought many down unfortunately. Hopefully these kind of skies continue....

[GavStar]

Excellent report Gerry. Just read up on sh2-91 as the ‘other Veil’. I need to give this one a go soon, hopefully tonight ?

[PeterW]

Yes you do @GavStar!

Peter

[MarsG76]

Great report Gerry... I had a similar experience with the Pillars in my 14" scope.. there was a distinctly darker area in the nebulosity between two brightish stars (brightish in comparison to others in the FOV). This was with my 31mm Nagler T5 and 17mm Ethos... with and without the 2X Powermate....

[Pig]

Nice one Gerry, great session  ? you can see the double double naked eye !! That’s incredible. 

[Stu]

Awesome session Gerry, mag 6.8 is not too shabby! I hope you some more in while the skies are so transparent.

@Pig I’m assuming a split of the DD pair, not of the 4 stars, unless Gerry has developed bionic vision suddenly!!  

[scarp15]

Quite worth the wait Gerry, fantastic deep sky observing conditions, look forward to more reports. Particularly enjoy the detailed information you provide each time you get to observe SH2-91. Good luck with the tree clearing. 

[jetstream]

5 hours ago, Stu said:

I’m assuming a split of the DD pair, not of the 4 stars,

yup

5 hours ago, Stu said:

unless Gerry has developed bionic vision suddenly!!  

nope lol

Thanks Stu, the NELM practise is coming along nicely with some great lawn chair sessions had.

[jetstream]

4 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Quite worth the wait Gerry, fantastic deep sky observing conditions, look forward to more reports. Particularly enjoy the detailed information you provide each time you get to observe SH2-91. Good luck with the tree clearing. 

There is quite a lot visible in this object Iain but for now I'm concentrating in the area I reported, drawing a visual "map" of the area which takes me a while. It does pay off though. I know you have an interest for SH2 91  so I'll keep mapping away as time and conditions allow. Your 14", from your excellent dark site will show all of this.

[Special K]

9 minutes ago, jetstream said:

yup

nope lol

Thanks Stu, the NELM practise is coming along nicely with some great lawn chair sessions had.

I was gonna say!!!!  Took 100x for me to split them last night!  

Very nice results on the Pillars, Gerry. I can only dream of doing that one day.  Great report again!

[GavStar]

My goodness Gerry, sh2-91 is faint!!

I’m observing with my night vision monoculars from a 20.7 sqm site this evening. And I can just just get it - it’s pushing the night vision to the limit. 

Here’s a phone pic through the Night Vision monoculars and my 85mm refractor. It’s a 30 second exposure at iso 200. You can just see a thin line of nebulosity to the right of the brightest star (12 Cygni).

As a comparison of the faintness below is a phone photo of the Veil taken a few minutes after the one above with exactly the same iso and exposure settings.

 

I am extremely impressed with your observing skills...

 

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, GavStar said:

I am extremely impressed with your observing skills...

Thank you Gavin.

When first searching for this object those stars that this wisp intersects is a valuable tool to use. Great images Gavin.

[alanjgreen]

I got sh2-91 in the 20" with night vision in July, together with sh2-94 and sh2-96.

... but it was still hard. Some of these sharpless objects are very faint indeed!

I will be trying with the 107FL if it's clear at new moon. It should be noted that it was not very dark in July so hopefully more to come from this area now its getting darker.

Alan

[PeterW]

Never said it would be easy..... as it’s made of thin filaments a bit more scale could help, or maybe @alanjgreenhas better skies and a better tube! Seeing you are going wide @GavStar let’s see how much of the eridanus loop you can get this winter! Great veil shot, would be good  to see that down the eyepiece.

PEter

[alanjgreen]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Never said it would be easy..... as it’s made of thin filaments a bit more scale could help, or maybe @alanjgreenhas better skies and a better tube! Seeing you are going wide @GavStar let’s see how much of the eridanus loop you can get this winter! Great veil shot, would be good  to see that down the eyepiece.

PEter

Probably 20 inches of aperture made a difference! It certainly was not a dark sky in July. With the 55mm, I was operating under f2 as well. The scale (x38 magnification) was larger than the fov in the dob and I was able to trace along the length of sh2-91 but it was by no means bright and clear. There are multiple strands and it gets hard to follow. Sh2-94 and sh2-96 were much easier.

The pic of the Veil is "almost" as good as the view in the 20" with 55mm plossl and NV plus the 6nm Ha filter = yes it is that good!

I know it's not a competition (before anybody chimes in) but it's good to realize what a big dob can really do  

If you compare my description from 4th August (pasted below) with Gavin's image (it does not convey the sheer varying brightness of the Eastern section (which has some really bright NGC & IC within it) that I have seen in the dob and the general background seems a bit washed out compared to the eyepiece view?). It does show the two twines of "the thin thread" section which is now my favourite bit!

======================

Western Veil

As soon as I put my eye to the eyepiece I knew I was in for a treat! The upper section of NGC6960 was showing the split into three parts (I only saw a split into two on my last visit). I journeyed down the bright lane of nebula past the star to the tip, then across to Pickering’s Triangle.

Pickering’s Triangle was stunning. The wispy lanes and finer details within the triangle were just brilliant. I could see the small “E” curve to the left and the long bendy NGC 6979 to the right very clearly. Below NGC6979 were a further two small patches (one labelled “F”, the other below that).

Moving up I could see both “G” and the wispy lane to the left of “G” too. But the most memorable piece for the night was “The Thin Thread”. On my last visit I could just make it out and follow it up but tonight it was clear as day and also showed multiple threads! [ We have had a lot of rain over the past week so maybe the sky is extra clear for once? ].

Continuing up the thread it split into two forks at the top and I was able to see “D”, “C”, “B” and “A” over the top. [ I missed out looking for these last time so made extra effort tonight. I also bagged “H” as I header right to the Eastern Veil.

 

Eastern Veil

As I dropped down onto the IC1340 & NGC6995, it looked like the roof of a VW Beetle! Two parallel curvy lanes with some cross pieces and a couple of brighter blob sections (IC1340 was one of them). It was so bright, there was a lush patch of nebula bottom right just before the long bright NGC6992 came into view. This section was very bright and detailed but I kept returning to Pickerings and the Thin Thread. NGC6979 really did show its shape very well last night.

================================

[PeterW]

Enhanced scale helps to pull things out of the noise, I can detect the crescent in the 80mm, but only as I know it is there.

Competition....  never, just good to compare notes with different kit under different conditions.

PEter

[alanjgreen]

19 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Enhanced scale helps to pull things out of the noise, I can detect the crescent in the 80mm, but only as I know it is there.

Competition....  never, just good to compare notes with different kit under different conditions.

PEter

The Crescent seems to be a treat in all the scopes I have tried, 89mm, 107mm and 500mm.

Its a good target to show a newbie as its easy to see. At x38 in the dob, it is as big as the fov of the 40 degree night vision and shows all its features. It becomes a "9" rather than a Crescent and its so bright  

I love just bumping into it (by accident) as you nudge through Cygnus!

Anyway, getting off topic of sh2-91...

[scarp15]

Interesting, I have conversed numerous times with Gerry in attempting this object, visually it is right up there in terms of detecting but it is feasible with continued, full dark adapted attempts, gaining an understanding for the nature of its profile set against the background vicinity. This is with a 14" dob cannot recall the exit pupil, will have to check, in approx. SQM-L recorded 21.4 mag skies. That is interesting therefore to learn that Sh2-91 is equally one of those trickier NV subjects to engage with and it will be informative to gain feedback i.e. such as through Gerry's accounts and NV users going forward on this and similar. Comparable a little perhaps to the annual Man versus Horse marathon,      

[Pig]

Well I was hoping to have some of the famous “Galllway” dark skies so I could try some of these lovely targets, but alas I have been here 4 nights now and it has done nothing but pour down with rain ????????

[estwing]

the mob are off to Isle of  Skye next month so i'm planning targets to bag under proper dark skies.

Great observing skills again Gerry and a timely boost i need to get back in the saddle....clear skies to all.

[PeterW]

Hoping to catch some (darker) skies with @GavStar similarly. Though with a good deal less travel needed and hopefully better weather prospects. Do tell us the Mobs target list plan, then we can compare notes.

Peter

[jetstream]

57 minutes ago, estwing said:

the mob are off to Isle of  Skye next month so i'm planning targets to bag under proper dark skies.

Great observing skills again Gerry and a timely boost i need to get back in the saddle....clear skies to all.

Great to hear you guys are heading out again Calvin and I eagerly wait for your reports

[estwing]

Yeah me too!