Frustration with bins...

[PhotoGav]

5 hours ago, emadmoussa said:

Well, I'm a fuzzies aficionado, ergo, bins will always fail to deliver. 

Ah ha! No wonder the bins were frustrating! Not a patch on a scope for that kind of thing. However, I do think there can be a place for a pair of sharp wideish low magnification bins for cruising around the Milky Way. What ever, I hope your scopes arrive soon and you have some great nights under the stars in your new home!

[emadmoussa]

14 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

Ah ha! No wonder the bins were frustrating! Not a patch on a scope for that kind of thing. However, I do think there can be a place for a pair of sharp wideish low magnification bins for cruising around the Milky Way. What ever, I hope your scopes arrive soon and you have some great nights under the stars in your new home!

I'm just putting the delivery on hold at the moment until we have finished living amongst boxes and finished some minor renovations around the house  (new scope and paint shouldn't be in the same space). Well,  at least I know it's there waiting for my 'go ahead and dispatch' signal. 

[emadmoussa]

1 hour ago, daveintheshire said:

Sorry OP, I really have steered us OT here......

Astronomy With An Opera Glass by Garrett P Serviss is said to be an inspirational read, though I confess I have not yet read it.  It is available on freely on archive.org here:

https://archive.org/details/astronomywithope00servuoft

and Project Gutenberg here:

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36741

No worries, discussions naturally evolve. Let it flow! 

[Ricochet]

I had some cheap 25x70 bins and they weren't for me either. I think the relatively high magnification was a lot of the problem. The weight and magnification meant they had to go on a tripod and the constricted field of view meant they had to be fitted to a tripod adaptor with an RDF. This essentially put them in direct competition with the dob (which was also quicker to set up) and of course they lost out. I suspect that a high quality 15x70 on a monopod might be a nice addition and overcome all the issues, except for neck strain, that I found with the 25x70s, but a sufficiently high quality binocular is an expensive test to try.

[Nyctimene]

On 22/08/2018 at 18:11, emadmoussa said:

I struggle to use both eyes at the same time. I go all squinty and headachy and end up using one eye. Every bins I used, small and big, was like that, so I doubt it's an issue of collimation. 

Did you have your eyes checked by an opthalmologist or optometrist? Your description of symptoms might have to do with a physiological/medical problem, e.g. a latent strabism, that is uncovered only under the specific conditions of observing with binos at nighttime; or night myopia.

Otherwise, I agree with Peter above: binos are complementary to scopes - so low mags are their favourite playground. And all  binos are profiting from a sturdy mount, even the 7x ones.

On 22/08/2018 at 21:20, daveintheshire said:

Astronomy With An Opera Glass by Garrett P Serviss is said to be an inspirational read, though I confess I have not yet read it.  It is available on freely on archive.org here:

https://archive.org/details/astronomywithope00servuoft

and Project Gutenberg here:

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36741

A wonderful read, still valuable today; I love it!

Stephan

[Charic]

On 22/08/2018 at 17:11, emadmoussa said:

I struggle to use both eyes at the same time. I go all squinty and headachy and end up using one eye. Every bins I used, small and big, was like that, so I doubt it's an issue of collimation. 

Going back to basics, fold the binoculars along their hinge point in order to align both your eyes with the axis of both  eyepieces.
When you look through binoculars your view should be circular, not the flat horizontal figure of eight as portrayed in the movies!

When you have the perfect circular view, focus ONLY the left eye, but keep BOTH eyes open, with the right objective covered.
Once you have a clear sharp focus, repeat the task, only this time, focus only the Right eye using the diopter adjuster ( the rotating ring on the right eyepiece) and ensure to cap the left Objective, still keeping Both eyes open.
When  your satisfied that the right eye is sharp, un-cap the left objective and then focus normally by just using the centre focus wheel. Or if indeed, you have Individual Focus binoculars, then no further adjustment  is required for the target you just focused on.

If at this stage, you still need to go all squinty, headachy, or just  use the one eye, then something is  not quite right, and for you my friend, not suited for binoculars.

Sorry if you think this is too simplistic but some folk do not set up their bins correctly.? It could still be that the collimation is out, in which case, they need further servicing, but go over the basic setup again, see if theres' any difference.

The best thing I find with my binoculars, especially the low powered ones like my  8x40's, their just so  darn simple to use and  their instantly ready to go at a moments notice, day or night. I just got to have binoculars. I mount mine too, just about always, no matter the target, which just gives  more stability to the view, enhancing what I see. ⭕⭕

[LukeSkywatcher]

On 22/08/2018 at 17:48, daveintheshire said:

I hope I'm not veering too far OT, but is there a cheaper alternative to the Vixens?  I really like the idea of them, but they're a bit pricey just to try out!

For me, binocular observing is about the simplicity and the according relaxation.  I get out my scope when I want to see detail, but far more often I get out my bins just to "tour the skies".  For anyone who is into their Amateur Radio I think binocular astronomy has a similar appeal to QRP (low output power) operating with simple, lightweight equipment.   The views don't stun you like a scope, but there is still much beauty to be found and a real sense of achievement for many objects.  You learn to love different things too - wringing the last drop out of fuzzies is replaced by seeking asterisms and splitting doubles (though personally I really enjoy fuzzies in binoculars too!).  You can also be up and running in under a minute flat, with no polar alignment to do - good for dodging the clouds so typical of the UK.

To each his own though - whatever it is in the hobby that makes you happy, that's what you should be doing.

The Omegon (as i own) are a good 50% cheaper than the Vixens. IIRC, i paid about 180 euros for the Omegon. There are cheaper brands still.

Yep, i just checked..................179 euros (162 Sterling):

https://www.astroshop.eu/instruments/omegon-2-1x42-wide-field-binoculars-for-star-field-observing/p,50354

[LukeSkywatcher]

On 22/08/2018 at 18:29, daveintheshire said:

Now that's what I'm talking about.  Thanks for link and the explanation.

They are not Vixen. Kasai is the cheaper brand (i couldnt think of the name). Those ones (what brand are they?) are cheap and look cheaply made. I'd pay the extra for Omegon.

Great wide field views of star fields,clusters etc. Like any bins, they are a great companion for a scope. A cheper option is to buy a 32mm Plossl to scan the night sky.

[daveintheshire]

9 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

They are not Vixen. Kasai is the cheaper brand (i couldnt think of the name). Those ones (what brand are they?) are cheap and look cheaply made. I'd pay the extra for Omegon.

Great wide field views of star fields,clusters etc. Like any bins, they are a great companion for a scope. A cheper option is to buy a 32mm Plossl to scan the night sky.

Ah yes, I'm on track now!  Just looked at the link in your previous post and they are currently showing 129 sterling!

I had (and still am) considering a 32mm Plossl - my 25mm Plossl is my favourite eyepiece, but it's just not wide enough!  My binocular to scope observing ratio is probably about 10 to 1 so in terms of usage vs outlay I'd do well to stump up the cash and go for the Omegon.

[BinocularSky]

On 22/08/2018 at 17:48, daveintheshire said:

 is there a cheaper alternative to the Vixens?

There are: Kasai and Omegon have already been mentioned (Kasai also do a sort of helmet-mask so you can wear them), but even cheaper can be a couple of  cheap x2 teleconverters with a 3D printed frame. (If my memory is correct, there's a thread somewhere on CN about this)

On 22/08/2018 at 20:04, Stub Mandrel said:

If anyone wants to take a punt on cheap pair that have coated achro optics and don't look like something out of Blackadder, these Bresser 'scala' ones might do

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bresser-Scala-CB-3x27-Opera-Glass/272565216983

Only 27mm aperture: will restrict FoV.

[Stub Mandrel]

47 minutes ago, BinocularSky said:

Only 27mm aperture: will restrict FoV. 

True, but they also cost less than £50 so the cost per star is comparable ?

[kirkster501]

Love astronomy with bins, infact, I prefer it to the telescope. However, they need to be mounted if of any reasonable aperture other wise it gets tiring and frustrating holding them, for me at any rate.

I'm in the market for a pair of the Helios 25x100 Q4's.  I keep getting there too late on ABS when they come up.

[mark81]

28 minutes ago, kirkster501 said:

Love astronomy with bins, infact, I prefer it to the telescope. However, they need to be mounted if of any reasonable aperture other wise it gets tiring and frustrating holding them, for me at any rate.

I'm in the market for a pair of the Helios 25x100 Q4's.  I keep getting there too late on ABS when they come up.

Agreed.  I have been looking at the same pair recently.  One thing I was wondering.. is the image fully corrected?

[ollypenrice]

You can easily assess your sky by looking for a limiting magnitude. This won't give an objective measure but will give a good idea. My eyes are poor but I could, when I last checked, reach mag 5.8. This is a long way from the Mag 7 achieved by one of our Dutch guests (and objectively tested by the rest of us!) Basically just look at the darkest part of your sky, probably the zenith, find a clear asterism you will recognize on the charts, and identify the faintest star you can see. Then look it up on the chart. Don't use a PC screen, even a red one, when doing this!

For me 25x70 is not a very appealing spec. 25x needs proper mounting and looking straight through is not good once up in the best part of your sky. I had a 4 inch refractor which could get down to 15x and I still have refractors which go below 25x. On a nice alt-az mount with a star diagonal I'd take these over 25x straight through bins any day.

But, with the summer Milky Way overhead and a lounger chair I find nothing nicer than Milky Way cruising with my hand held 8x42.

Olly

[DirkSteele]

I find binoculars can be a rather personal thing compared to telescopes. One observers treasure is another’s trash.

 

However, I believe the really benefit /utility is in being complimentary to a telescope rather than replacement. They do things well that scopes can’t. Real wide field sweeping (more than 5 degree fields) hence giving a different perspective on the night sky, and are grab and go in a way no telescope can ever be. But that means 10x magnification and less is the sweet spot for me. I cannot hold 15x plus steady enough to see all they can actually show so I have wide field scopes like my Taks and LZOS 4” that can achieve those powers when I want that magnification.

[Alfian]

I'm a great fan of binos . Binocular summation apart ,viewing with two eyes adds a dimension and level of satisfaction which I really enjoy. Over time however I've found that the versatility of a wide field scope has won out certainly with respect to 15x plus magnification.Given that I would mount my 15X70s its as easy to use a lightweight mount/scope combo and get similar wide fov. With a diagonal its easier to use and I can swap EPs. Its not the same but for me weighing up the pros and cons its what I tend to choose. That does not stop me enjoying my other binoculars 6.5x32,10x42, 12x50 or pondering the undoubted  joys of big binos.