My back may change my mind?

[emadmoussa]

So, I went to the shop to look at the Meade 12" ACF SCT, which I've been eyeing for a while. My plan was to buy it next week (still living amongst boxes in the new home, sorting things out). The scope does look attractive, and as far as I know, the performance is nothing but superb. I tried to lift it and it was OK-ish. I can imagine the weight not being a big deal if I want to move the scope from the house onto the garden deck - about 1.5/2m. Being realistic and from experience, for a quick casual observing session, I can see the size of the scope becoming too old too quickly. 

I'm now in limbo, trapped between my need (or want) for a large aperture and my concern for my back, which already sort of busted lifting boxes full of books (my health and safety measures are nothing but rubbish).  

Today I was thinking, maybe I could get 2 scopes: a large aperture and a portable one. My budget is £3K for everything. So I was thinking, what if I get an 8" Meade ACF SCT, which is a great scope, and also a 14" Flextube Dobsonian, which I originally wanted? One for casual observing and the other for those rare, perfectly clear nights. The 2 scopes combined are £300 cheaper than one 12" Meade SCT. Is this reasonable, or I'm just all over the place?

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!! 

[alanjgreen]

Emad,

Personally, I cant see the point of owning an SCT & a big dob as they are both long focal length.

Better to get the big dob and a 100mm frac on a lightweight mount (AZ5 GTI for example). Then you get two COMPLEMENTARY scopes.

If you want a small SCT then I would also consider the CPC800 (they are great scopes with better focuser than Meade), one just came on astrobuysell for less than 1K with loads of extras too.

But if you want the big dob then do consider a frac to go alongside it!

Alan

[emadmoussa]

Erm, but the Dob is f4.6 and the SCT f10, 2 different focal lengths. Did I miss something? 

[alanjgreen]

8 minutes ago, emadmoussa said:

Erm, but the Dob is f4.6 and the SCT f10, 2 different focal lengths. Did I miss something? 

thats "focal ratio" you are quoting to me, not "focal length"

Focal ratio is the focal length divided by aperture, for 8" SCT 2050/200 = f10

Focal length is the distance from the mirror to the point of focus.

[emadmoussa]

Just now, alanjgreen said:

thats "focal ratio" you are quoting to me, not "focal length"

LOL - wires are fried here. Yes, sorry! 

[emadmoussa]

13 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

Emad,

Personally, I cant see the point of owning an SCT & a big dob as they are both long focal length.

Better to get the big dob and a 100mm frac on a lightweight mount (AZ5 GTI for example). Then you get two COMPLEMENTARY scopes.

If you want a small SCT then I would also consider the CPC800 (they are great scopes with better focuser than Meade), one just came on astrobuysell for less than 1K with loads of extras too.

But if you want the big dob then do consider a frac to go alongside it!

Alan

And, I don't think I want to use a Celestron ever again. Never liked the field curvature and coma in my old C11. This is why I'm after a ACF version - Meade. 

[alanjgreen]

8 minutes ago, emadmoussa said:

And, I don't think I want to use a Celestron ever again. Never liked the field curvature and coma in my old C11. This is why I'm after a ACF version - Meade. 

Sounds like you need an APO refractor.

[Chris]

9 minutes ago, emadmoussa said:

And, I don't think I want to use a Celestron ever again. Never liked the field curvature and coma in my old C11. This is why I'm after a ACF version - Meade. 

I'm not sure if the Meade ACF is as good as the Celestron Edge HD? All standard SCT are bad for coma unless you use a corrector. 

This might be biased as it's Celestron's White Paper, but the Edge spot diagrams look a lot better than the ACF's. Go to page 5:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/celestron-site-support-files/support_files/edgehd_whitepaper_final.pdf

 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Well, they can take my nearly 23 year old C8 out of my cold, dead hands. I do have an apochromatic refractor next to it (APM 80mm F/6), but for observing the C8 does most of the heavy lifting (that or the 16x80 bins). I do intend to get a big Dobson next to these two, as it will grab far more light. The C8 complements it in the sense that I can travel with it far more easily than with a big Dob.

[emadmoussa]

23 minutes ago, Lockie said:

I'm not sure if the Meade ACF is as good as the Celestron Edge HD? All standard SCT are bad for coma unless you use a corrector. 

This might be biased as it's Celestron's White Paper, but the Edge spot diagrams look a lot better than the ACF's. Go to page 5:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/celestron-site-support-files/support_files/edgehd_whitepaper_final.pdf

 

That's the whole point of the ACF system. It does indeed significantly reduce or eliminate coma. I didn't try it myself, but I read several reports, including Uncle Bob's.  

I'm sure the Edge is a fine scope, but I really doubt it'll be massively better the Meade ACF. An 8" Meade ACF with mount/goTo and everything is only £300 more expensive than an Edge OTA only. The CPC Version of the 8" Edge is, I think, 1K more expensive. 

And...of course, as some know, I'm a bit allergic to Celestron. Had 2 bad experiences with them. 

[RobertI]

Do you still have the 300P Flexitube? Would the two scopes be in addition to that?

[emadmoussa]

29 minutes ago, RobertI said:

Do you still have the 300P Flexitube? Would the two scopes be in addition to that?

Unfortunately, 3 years ago, I had to sell all my kit due to family circumstances. Building up gear from scratch at the moment. 

[Davey-T]

IMHO you'd be better off with one of these, more money but more quality, maybe biased because I've got one 

Mine came with electronic focuser but they seem to have done away with including it.

I'm old and weak but can just about manage to lift it.

For outright observing I'd get a nice big dob, more bang for your buck, but it's easier to fit an SCT in an obs'y, mines only 6' X 6' and fits easily including long dew shield.

100mm refractor piggy backed on top no problem.

Roll off the roof and I can be imaging inside 10 minutes.

https://www.harrisontelescopes.co.uk/acatalog/meade-lx200-acf-10-telescope.html#SID=39

Dave

[ShrewView]

Lovely looking scope but in your first post you mentioned quick and casual observing and taking the scope out of the house to observe. Think a 12inch sct takes about a fortnight to cool down doesn't it? ?

I like Alan's idea of two scopes.

[Chris]

2 hours ago, emadmoussa said:

hat's the whole point of the ACF system. It does indeed significantly reduce or eliminate coma. I didn't try it myself, but I read several reports, including Uncle Bob's.  

I'm sure the Edge is a fine scope, but I really doubt it'll be massively better the Meade ACF.

Well the ACF corrects for coma, and the Edge corrects for coma and field curvature, it's completely flat/aplanatic, so if field curvature bothers you then the Edge would be better. The spot diagrams very much support this also and show a large difference.

My guess would be the Edge is as much better than the ACF as the ACF is better than the standard SCT.  I too have a soft spot for Meade despite their history of poor service and electrical problems, I'm always willing them to do better. I think this is because of fond memories of my long gone ETX90, so I'm honestly not being brand biased just because I own the CPC800 Edge. 

2 hours ago, emadmoussa said:

An 8" Meade ACF with mount/goTo and everything is only £300 more expensive than an Edge OTA only. The CPC Version of the 8" Edge is, I think, 1K more expensive. 

And...of course, as some know, I'm a bit allergic to Celestron. Had 2 bad experiences with them. 

Yeah I think Celestron are expensive when they don't have a sale on, but they do fortunately have sales on a couple of times a year with sometimes massive savings! I bought my CPC800 Edge for £1699 in the spring sale.  I can't remember how much the ACF is exactly, my memory says around 2k?  

I think historically Meade have a bad rep, but I know what you mean, even though I got a great deal there has been a problem with my azimuth drive when slewing anti clockwise. I did think it was a power supply issue but I've upgraded everything power wise. FLO and Celestron UK have been great and very quickly picked the scope up from my house for a service. That kind of leads me to another thing, I really do feel in safe hands with FLO as they bend over backwards to help with any issues. Maybe if they stocked Meade I would have gone that way before the Celestron sales, but they don't stock them. Whoever you get the Meade from please make sure the dealer has a good rep for service as I think all these fancy goto's can have teething problems from time to time.

[dweller25]

I also have a bad back - which the weight of a 10” SW Dob managed to aggravate - a 14” Dob weighs even more ? plus I found the viewing angle uncomfortable.

But if you can do it a manageable Dob and a good  5” refractor would be be a good pair

[John]

Sometimes large (10" plus SCT's) never quite cool down or can't quite keep pace with changes in temp as the session progresses.

Personally I'd only consider one if it was going to be permanently mounted in a dome or roll off shed.

Celestron over Meade for me, every time.

 

[Chris]

1 minute ago, John said:

Sometimes large (10" plus SCT's) never quite cool down or can't quite keep pace with changes in temp as the session progresses.

Personally I'd only consider one if it was going to be permanently mounted in a dome or roll off shed.

Celestron over Meade for me, every time.

 

Yeah I think Emad is doing the right thing considering an 8" without an obsy. 

[John]

9 minutes ago, Lockie said:

Yeah I think Emad is doing the right thing considering an 8" without an obsy. 

Agreed. I also don't think that a 14" dob is going to do anything good for a bad back. Having seen a few 14" Flextube dobs I tend to think of them as 2 person setup scopes.

 

[emadmoussa]

1 hour ago, ShrewView said:

Lovely looking scope but in your first post you mentioned quick and casual observing and taking the scope out of the house to observe. Think a 12inch sct takes about a fortnight to cool down doesn't it? ?

I like Alan's idea of two scopes.

Yeah, notoriously so. 

And, yes, I'm thinking about getting two scopes as I mentioned above: 8" SCT and 14" Dob. 

[emadmoussa]

28 minutes ago, Lockie said:

 FLO and Celestron UK have been great and very quickly picked the scope up from my house for a service. That kind of leads me to another thing, I really do feel in safe hands with FLO as they bend over backwards to help with any issues. Maybe if they stocked Meade I would have gone that way before the Celestron sales, but they don't stock them. Whoever you get the Meade from please make sure the dealer has a good rep for service as I think all these fancy goto's can have teething problems from time to time.

1

Yep, I wonder why FLO don't stock Meade? 

And yes, the guys at FLO are indeed helpful. They're often my first choice. 

My second option has always been Rother Valley Optics, they stock Meade and this is where I'm possibly buying it from. 

I used to be a big fan of Teleskop Service, but since Brexit and the drop in the sterling value, the prices are no longer appealing. 

[kerrylewis]

15 minutes ago, John said:

Agreed. I also don't think that a 14" dob is going to do anything good for a bad back. Having seen a few 14" Flextube dobs I tend to think of them as 2 person setup scopes.

 

I have the 14" Flextube and it is set up permanently on a trolley I got from B&Q. I just wheel it out of the garage when needed. My son calls it the 'trundlescope'. 

I agree that it is heavy if you need to do anything else. I certainly wouldn't want to set it up every time  

[Rob]

3 hours ago, emadmoussa said:

So, I went to the shop to look at the Meade 12" ACF SCT, which I've been eyeing for a while. My plan was to buy it next week (still living amongst boxes in the new home, sorting things out). The scope does look attractive, and as far as I know, the performance is nothing but superb. I tried to lift it and it was OK-ish. I can imagine the weight not being a big deal if I want to move the scope from the house onto the garden deck - about 1.5/2m. Being realistic and from experience, for a quick casual observing session, I can see the size of the scope becoming too old too quickly. 

I'm now in limbo, trapped between my need (or want) for a large aperture and my concern for my back, which already sort of busted lifting boxes full of books (my health and safety measures are nothing but rubbish).  

Today I was thinking, maybe I could get 2 scopes: a large aperture and a portable one. My budget is £3K for everything. So I was thinking, what if I get an 8" Meade ACF SCT, which is a great scope, and also a 14" Flextube Dobsonian, which I originally wanted? One for casual observing and the other for those rare, perfectly clear nights. The 2 scopes combined are £300 cheaper than one 12" Meade SCT. Is this reasonable, or I'm just all over the place?

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!! 

Humm Yes. Speaking as a fellow back sufferer. I ended up selling my EQ6 a few years ago for this reason. The issue being if you part with a handsome amount of cash, then end up selling a year later thats going to really annoy you!. I see you have a nice 300P dob. I'd buy a nice APO and HEQ5 that your budget will stretch too.

[Rob]

Oh and for the record I've owned 2 x C8's in the past. The first Starbright black tube addition was nice. The second (non USA made) was soft on contrast.

However Russ (another founder member of SGL with myself) did some extensive tests on a shoot out between the black tube C8 & ED100. We both agreed they performed equally.

[emadmoussa]

16 minutes ago, John said:

Agreed. I also don't think that a 14" dob is going to do anything good for a bad back. Having seen a few 14" Flextube dobs I tend to think of them as 2 person setup scopes.

 

Now, do you guys see my conundrum?  The SCT and Dob will be stored in the conservatory, so it'll be somewhat cool before taking it out. Although, it might catch on fire in summer  

I think I can manage a 14" given the position of the conservatory vis-a-vis the garden. This photo is taken from the inside of the conservatory, so a large dob could potentially be rolled out and in.