ZWO 183C MC Pro, ZWO 294MC Pro or other camera?

[Space Ranger]

I've spent a few years carrying out unguided astroimaging with a DSLRs and have gradually reached the stage where I can get results I'm very happy with. 

Although I very much like the uncomplicated portable nature of the DSLR setup (especially when hooked up to a Star Adventurer mount), I think the new cooled OSC CMOS cameras may provide significantly better results for me taking into account that I want to keep things "simple", the amount of time I tend to have available is limited, and my normal astroimaging arrangements. I'm therefore looking at potentially purchasing a new camera and would welcome the advice of the very helpful and knowledgeable people who use this forum.

The astroimaging I do is varied. I know it isn't possible to have a camera that will be ideal for all equipment set-ups and all celestial targets, but I'd like to choose a camera that would be capable of producing decent results for as much of the imaging I like to do as possible ie
- widefield imaging to produce sky mosaics (mainly using 50mm and 105mm lenses)
- imaging of nebulae, star clusters, larger galaxies, bright comets etc using a Skywatcher 80 ED refractor (I seem to be able to easily get 60-120sec subs without trailing through this scope on a EQ-AZ5GT mount, depending on how much time I spend on polar alignment, and how near the celestial equator I'm imaging)
- imaging of the moon (and very occasionally planets) using a Skywatcher 80 ED refractor and a Celestron 6"SCT (I'm not too worried about planetary imaging at the moment as at 58.5N they are not ideally placed for me just now - too low and normally hidden by surrounding houses)
I'd also use it to give "real time on screen" views of celestial objects at local astronomy events.

I set up the mount/scope from scratch each session, either in the back garden or often at locations a 30 min drive away where there is less light pollution (SQM readings >21.5). The Scottish weather (cloud / wind) and other commitments tend to limit me to 1-3 hours observing / imaging per night, so being able to gather useable data quickly is important to me. At this stage my image processing skils are relatively basic, so I'm after a camera that will allow me to "see" and image lots of different objects without any illusion that I'll be able to produce prize winning results. I'm not interested in guiding or narrowband imaging at this time (or probably anytime soon).

I've used a ZWO 120MC camera before for lunar, solar and planetary imaging and was quite impressed by it, so based on this and reviews I've read I'd be happy to buy a ZWO camera. I'm willing to spend £1k (or thereabouts).

Based on a bit of reasearch, including reading lots of forum posts (some of which were way over my head!), I'm thinking the ZWO 183C MC Pro and ZWO 294MC Pro may suit my needs, but am not ruling out other options for now. I'd welcome advice that would aid my decision making.

[Adam J]

The ZWO183mc pro is most suitable for the  50mm and 105mm lenses due to its small pixels, the pixel scale is also suited to the 80ED (just). I would also say that its the better choice for lunar and planetary. 

The ZWO294mc is probably the more sensitive camera and would be great with the 80ED for nebula, but the pixels are a little big for those lenses. Its also better for EEA for your real time shots with the ED80.

 

So it depends on your priorities. 

As you want to do the live imaging ill not try to push mono like I normally would. 

I would say that if your main interest is with the wide 50mm and 105mm the 183 is for you. If your main interest is to do real time EEA with the ED80 then the 294 is for you. 

The only other camera I would consider is the Atik Horizon color due to its great live stacking software but that really would need to be a top priority for you to justify the additional cost as the 294 is probably the better for normal longer exposure imaging. 

  

Adam

 

 

[Space Ranger]

On ‎06‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 10:43, Adam J said:

The ZWO183mc pro is most suitable for the  50mm and 105mm lenses due to its small pixels, the pixel scale is also suited to the 80ED (just). I would also say that its the better choice for lunar and planetary. 

The ZWO294mc is probably the more sensitive camera and would be great with the 80ED for nebula, but the pixels are a little big for those lenses. Its also better for EEA for your real time shots with the ED80.

 

So it depends on your priorities. 

As you want to do the live imaging ill not try to push mono like I normally would. 

I would say that if your main interest is with the wide 50mm and 105mm the 183 is for you. If your main interest is to do real time EEA with the ED80 then the 294 is for you. 

The only other camera I would consider is the Atik Horizon color due to its great live stacking software but that really would need to be a top priority for you to justify the additional cost as the 294 is probably the better for normal longer exposure imaging. 

  

Adam

 

 

Thanks for your very clear and helpful advice Adam J. As I suspected I have a bit of thinking to do before the piggy bank gets raided.

I found a useful reference table for these cameras here - https://agenaastro.com/media/documents/ZWO_Camera_Specifications_v4.0.pdf (with more discussion here - https://agenaastro.com/zwo-astronomy-cameras-buyers-guide.html)

It looks like they would both be a good choice for what I'm hoping to used them for (ie pretty much everything except narrowband and detailed planetary imaging). But as you've pointed out they both have their individual strengths depending on the optical kit they are connected to. As there is not a big difference in price I think I'm leaning towards the 294mc pro based on the following...….

• I quite enjoy widefield imaging, but tend to make the individual images into multi-pane mosaics, so not much pixel peeping of the final image takes place. I've been happy with the resolution afforded with DSLR/lens combination thus far - the noise has been the bigger issue. As the image scale with 294mc will be similar to that of the 600Da  and 760D I use, I suppose its use for this could still be acceptable and will provide a step forward on the noise front.
• My main imaging is through the Skywatcher 80ED, and the 294mc looks to be the ideal match for it on my budget. Looks like the lesser pixels might not fill up my portable hard drive as quickly either.
• I enjoy imaging the moon and seeing what interesting features I can pick out. I know this is probably where the 294mc lags a bit behind the 183mc, but I don't suppose you can have everything. I normally image the Moon from my garden (which is surrounded by heat emitting houses), so the increased image scale achievable with the 183mc might not be that beneficial a lot of the time anyway. And when the seeing is good I suppose I can jus pop in the good quality barlow lens I have? 
• The above mentioned website guide says the 183mc is good for EEA too, just not quite as good as the 294mc. So probably not much difference between them for that method of use.

 

I wonder if anyone can comment / advise on the following:

- anyone know if these cameras can be hooked up to a microscope or to a really wide angle lens to "video" aurora. 

- what spec of laptop would be needed to operate the camera - I have an old-ish i7 based one, but the battery life is poor. I also have an Asus with a m3 intel processor, SSD storage and a battery that lasts for ages - would it be up to the job?

Gordon

 

[Adam J]

3 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

Thanks for your very clear and helpful advice Adam J. As I suspected I have a bit of thinking to do before the piggy bank gets raided.

I found a useful reference table for these cameras here - https://agenaastro.com/media/documents/ZWO_Camera_Specifications_v4.0.pdf (with more discussion here - https://agenaastro.com/zwo-astronomy-cameras-buyers-guide.html)

It looks like they would both be a good choice for what I'm hoping to used them for (ie pretty much everything except narrowband and detailed planetary imaging). But as you've pointed out they both have their individual strengths depending on the optical kit they are connected to. As there is not a big difference in price I think I'm leaning towards the 294mc pro based on the following...….

• I quite enjoy widefield imaging, but tend to make the individual images into multi-pane mosaics, so not much pixel peeping of the final image takes place. I've been happy with the resolution afforded with DSLR/lens combination thus far - the noise has been the bigger issue. As the image scale with 294mc will be similar to that of the 600Da  and 760D I use, I suppose its use for this could still be acceptable and will provide a step forward on the noise front.
• My main imaging is through the Skywatcher 80ED, and the 294mc looks to be the ideal match for it on my budget. Looks like the lesser pixels might not fill up my portable hard drive as quickly either.
• I enjoy imaging the moon and seeing what interesting features I can pick out. I know this is probably where the 294mc lags a bit behind the 183mc, but I don't suppose you can have everything. I normally image the Moon from my garden (which is surrounded by heat emitting houses), so the increased image scale achievable with the 183mc might not be that beneficial a lot of the time anyway. And when the seeing is good I suppose I can jus pop in the good quality barlow lens I have? 
• The above mentioned website guide says the 183mc is good for EEA too, just not quite as good as the 294mc. So probably not much difference between them for that method of use.

 

I wonder if anyone can comment / advise on the following:

- anyone know if these cameras can be hooked up to a microscope or to a really wide angle lens to "video" aurora. 

- what spec of laptop would be needed to operate the camera - I have an old-ish i7 based one, but the battery life is poor. I also have an Asus with a m3 intel processor, SSD storage and a battery that lasts for ages - would it be up to the job?

Gordon

 

yes both can be used with a lenses and microscopes with the correct adapters.

For capture it just needs to run windows 7 or 10.

For processing I would think that the I7 is required.