What to invest in for my first expensive (1K) telescope?

[Sedna]

Hi all, I've been into astronomy since I was kid but have only had small telescopes (~2") up until now. I move a lot and haven't really been in a position to invest in good equipment until recently. This looks like a great community for advice so I thought I'd post here and read your thoughts about what to invest in for my first expensive telescope.

My budget is $1000 +/- 200 USD. Direct viewing and astrophotography are both important to me, I have DLSR that I would use with the scope. Aperture size is very important, but also a stable mount (I'm sure you all know the frustration of having a light breeze knock whatever you were looking at out of view with a cheap mount). Portability is also important--I live in Los Angeles and would almost exclusively use this on long car trips out to the desert. Because I'd be using this out in the middle of nowhere, I'm wondering about battery life on a computerized telescope? I really want something with automatic alignment, and I figure I can probably charge the battery with my car or some solar panels like these (assuming they have the right adapter). 

My top choice right now is the Celestron NexStar 8 SE telescope. I like the SkyAlign and good aperture size (8"), and it's within my budget (though on the more expensive end). Sounds like it's both easy to transport and easy to use with a DLSR. I'm hoping battery life won't be too much of an issue if I charge with my car or solar panels during the day.

What do you all think? Is this a good telescope? Are there better ones offering the same features for about the same price? Thanks for the input!

[Stu]

It’s a nice scope for visual, but limited for astrophotography. It’s hard to achieve both with the same scope, that’s the problem.

With an AltAz Mount such as the SE has, with long exposures you will get field rotation, so it is only really suitable for short exposures. AP really requires a good strong equatorial Mount such as an HEQ5 or EQ6. Likewise the 8SE has a relatively long focal length which will require careful guiding and because it is a slow scope at f10, will need longer exposures. Many people start AP with a small, reasonably fast refractor.

What are your intended targets for AP?

A decent sized dobsonian is ideal for visual, but hopeless for AP.

[Charic]

From the little amount I know about astrophotography and the books Ive read like Making Every Photon Count, I'd be inclined to get an ED80 scope or maybe push for the 100, but the ED80  is often highly rated for this sort of work.

Not sure how good it would be for visual use, such is the dilemma of one scope doing everything well, there's not, I believe, any scope that matches that criteria, best of everything.

Under desert skies, a 6" skyliner might enable you to see more than my 8" skyliner, but I'd have no problem suggesting a reflector telescope for your visual requirements, and the larger the aperture the better, but size, weight and portability are issues to contend with.

[Stu]

Although not ideal, I guess a C8 with a reducer on a decent EQ Mount might give possibilities for both visual and AP

[Cosmic Geoff]

Depends what exactly you want to photograph.  I have a C8 SE - it's good for visual observing, is usable for planetary astrophotography, but for deep space astrophotography you really need something else.   Battery life with a 12v 7AH battery is plenty long if you just power the mount and not an array of dew heaters, laptop, ete etc.  I also have the auto-aligning Starsense accessory - nice to have and saves the fag of doing a 2 or 3 star  alignment, but not essential.  (and not cheap).

Note also there's no rule that says you have to have just one telescope. ?

[Sedna]

4 hours ago, Stu said:

What are your intended targets for AP? 

Hey Stu, thanks for the input. In principle, I'm more interested in planetary, but I think you really need a webcam to take good planetary photos, right? So for my DLSR I would probably focus on deep space. Honestly, both are very cool to me

[Sedna]

4 hours ago, Charic said:

From the little amount I know about astrophotography and the books Ive read like Making Every Photon Count, I'd be inclined to get an ED80 scope or maybe push for the 100, but the ED80  is often highly rated for this sort of work.

Hi there Charic, thanks for feedback. Can you tell me a bit more about ED80? Does the 80 imply 80 mm aperture? I'm really trying to get as much aperture per my dollar as possible ... maybe that's a superficial criterion, but I'd probably go with a big aperture scope that's less suited to AP and fits my budget rather than a scope that's great for AP but has a small aperture for my budget.

[Sedna]

3 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Note also there's no rule that says you have to have just one telescope. ?

For sure One day I will have a big collection like most of you all have. I'm still a student right now though, and I move about a one a year on average, so it's gonna be a while till I'm at that place in life.

[Charic]

Absolutely right sir, the 80 refers to the aperture and although 80mm seem's quite small,  two authors, Steve Richards, Making Every Photon Count, mentioned above, and  Mark Thompson, Astrophotography with Mark.... both have and use  80mm ED  scopes, mentioned in their own books!  and the images are stunning. Can they both be wrong?
I have asked Steve Richards before, and he had no issues with me mentioning/stating  the fact that his ED80 APO is made by Skywatcher. His book is a good read too, money well spent,  which ensures, or should ensure that you don't go down the wrong street when it comes to anything astro-photography  related, as any mistakes you could make, have already been discovered? There are other authors too, but the two mentioned, I have in my book collection.

Are you able to visit a club or society, just to try and see what the various apertures provide, both visually and photographically, that alone may sway you  one way or the other, by seeing the scopes in action,  the flesh as it were. 

Specifically seek out an ED80 APO and an 8" - 12" Reflector, then make up your mind, but one thing for sure, there's no need to rush, nothing up in the skies is likely to change much over the next 100 years!

[Sedna]

12 hours ago, Stu said:

Although not ideal, I guess a C8 with a reducer on a decent EQ Mount might give possibilities for both visual and AP

Thanks, maybe C6-S GT XLT is better for me? It's also an SC tube but on an EQ mount.

[Sedna]

8 hours ago, Charic said:

Are you able to visit a club or society, just to try and see what the various apertures provide, both visually and photographically, that alone may sway you  one way or the other, by seeing the scopes in action,  the flesh as it were. 

Good idea, there are star parties in the city sometimes, but they are strictly planetary (since we're in LA) and usually it's not so open that the hosts let other people hook up their DLSRs. Thanks for the input.

[Stu]

12 hours ago, Sedna said:

Hey Stu, thanks for the input. In principle, I'm more interested in planetary, but I think you really need a webcam to take good planetary photos, right? So for my DLSR I would probably focus on deep space. Honestly, both are very cool to me

Planetary and DSO have different requirements too, but planetary imaging and visual can rub along quite well. Aperture is important for both and the longer focal length of an SCT is an advantage.

[RobertI]

10 hours ago, Sedna said:

Thanks, maybe C6-S GT XLT is better for me? It's also an SC tube but on an EQ mount.

I have this exact setup but with a C8 rather than a C6. The mount is no longer made I believe and I'm surprised you can still buy it new. It's a good sturdy mount, especially with the very heavy 2" legged tripod, but I would have thought better to buy something current. However having said that, it's not that portable and observing with an equatorial is not as pleasant as using an Alt-Altaz. 

Here's a suggestion which rather appeals to me, how about a Skywatcher AZEQ5 (eq mode for imaging and altaz mode for visual, pretty portable) and a Skywatcher 150PDS or 130PDS Newtonian, which are both designed for imaging but work well for observing too? Should be within your budget too.

[Sedna]

1 hour ago, RobertI said:

I have this exact setup but with a C8 rather than a C6. The mount is no longer made I believe and I'm surprised you can still buy it new. It's a good sturdy mount, especially with the very heavy 2" legged tripod, but I would have thought better to buy something current. However having said that, it's not that portable and observing with an equatorial is not as pleasant as using an Alt-Altaz. 

Here's a suggestion which rather appeals to me, how about a Skywatcher AZEQ5 (eq mode for imaging and altaz mode for visual, pretty portable) and a Skywatcher 150PDS or 130PDS Newtonian, which are both designed for imaging but work well for observing too? Should be within your budget too.

Hi Robertl, thanks so much for your feedback. Can you tell me a little more about observing with the EQ mount? Why is it uncomfortable or less pleasant than alt-altaz? Re:portability, I have a small sedan, but I rarely travel with more than one other person--how practical do you think it would be to fit it in my car? 

Also, is the Skywatcher mount only compatible with other Skywatcher telescopes?

[cletrac1922]

Sedna

First welcome to SGL from land down under

I have ED80, for a number of years now, and still learning to drive the hand controller

Recently purchased the Wi-Fi adaptor, which operates off from your mobile device, and takes the guess work out of setting up EQ mount for the ED80

Have attached a pic of mine taken at a recent solar public viewing day, with solar filter attached

ED80 is on a EQ5 mount

John

 

 

 

[Sedna]

4 minutes ago, cletrac1922 said:

First welcome to SGL from land down under 

Hi John, thanks for the welcome and the picture! You must have amazing skies in Australia, I can only imagine.

[RobertI]

2 hours ago, Sedna said:

Hi Robertl, thanks so much for your feedback. Can you tell me a little more about observing with the EQ mount? Why is it uncomfortable or less pleasant than alt-altaz? Re:portability, I have a small sedan, but I rarely travel with more than one other person--how practical do you think it would be to fit it in my car? 

Also, is the Skywatcher mount only compatible with other Skywatcher telescopes?

No problem. With an Eq mount the eyepiece will twist and turn into different positions as you look at different objects in different parts of the sky. Not so bad if you are observing just one or two objects, but if you are looking at a lot, it can be a pain readjusting your viewing position every time. I find altaz mounts much easier as the eyepiece does not move so much, and its always up/down or left/right. I think its something you need to try to appreciate, but there may be some video on youtube demonstrating this. Of course there are always varying opinions, and some people won't be parted from their Eq mounts for visual, but I think it is generally accepted tha altaz mounts are easier for visual. The scope and mount I suggest will easily fit into a very small boot.

As to your second point, it's easy to mix and match scopes and mounts from different manufacturers, they pretty much all share the universal 'Vixen' style dovetail mounting system.

[cletrac1922]

6 hours ago, Sedna said:

Hi John, thanks for the welcome and the picture! You must have amazing skies in Australia, I can only imagine.

Sedna

U make it down under, welcome to come to one of our club meets

Every night look up, and have clear skies where I am, even though only 15kms inland from Goldcoast foreshore

Live in the hinterland, and have hills behind me which blocks light pollution from high-rises of Goldcoast

Captured attached image couple of months ago

Sunrise reflecting of ranges, where I live 

 

[Sedna]

2 hours ago, cletrac1922 said:

Sedna

U make it down under, welcome to come to one of our club meets

Every night look up, and have clear skies where I am, even though only 15kms inland from Goldcoast foreshore

Live in the hinterland, and have hills behind me which blocks light pollution from high-rises of Goldcoast

Captured attached image couple of months ago

Sunrise reflecting of ranges, where I live 

 

Very nice, John. I live in Los Angeles, and after a longish drive we do have some very nice, clear skies in the Mojave desert, Bortle 1 in Death Valley. But Los Angeles and Las Vegas are the two most light polluted cities in the world. Australia just looks amazing on the light pollution map. Plus you get to see so many stars I've never seen!

[Louis D]

On 21/07/2018 at 13:27, Stu said:

With an AltAz Mount such as the SE has, with long exposures you will get field rotation, so it is only really suitable for short exposures.

Why couldn't he use the Celestron EQ Wedge for NexStar 6/8SE with it for longer exposures?  Is it that poor of a piece of kit?

[Stu]

4 hours ago, Louis D said:

Why couldn't he use the Celestron EQ Wedge for NexStar 6/8SE with it for longer exposures?  Is it that poor of a piece of kit?

In theory no reason why not Louis, you are correct. I have zero expertise in this though so cannot comment at all. I do often read posts saying that the AltAz/Wedge combination is trickier to get to work well than an EQ, but others would have to comment.

[cletrac1922]

15 hours ago, Sedna said:

Very nice, John. I live in Los Angeles, and after a longish drive we do have some very nice, clear skies in the Mojave desert, Bortle 1 in Death Valley. But Los Angeles and Las Vegas are the two most light polluted cities in the world. Australia just looks amazing on the light pollution map. Plus you get to see so many stars I've never seen!

Sedna

Amazing objects around The Crux, known as the Southern Cross, situated in the Milky Way

Contains Coalsack Nebula, Jewel Box, which is absolutely amazing, consisting of white, yellow, blue and red stars, hence its name

Omega Centauri is also located adjacent to The Crux, and when giving presentations to Joey's, 7-9 yo's, scout movement, tell them when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, one of the things he had to do for NASA, was to see how far he could hit a golf ball

Neil Armstrong's golf ball is in space,

Omega Centauri looks like the dimples on a golf ball, hence its nick name, Neil Armstrong's golf ball

Some of the rural areas now becoming light polluted due to mining industry, and coal seam gas electricity generation, still heaps of areas clear skies

Come on down

No need to bring a scope, have several, and club has loan dobs as well

John

 

[Sedna]

Thanks for the input everyone ... direct viewing is more important to me than AP, so I probably value aperture over focal length, but I'll get something on an EQ mount. I'm glad Stu pointed out to me the limitations of my first idea. What do you all think about these: Orion Sirius 8 EQ-G GoTo Reflector Telescope and Celestron Advanced VX 8" Newtonian? There is one review on Amazon saying that the Celestron has a bad mount, but everyone else seems to like it? Also, does anyone know if either of these two are compact enough to fit into the back seat of a small sedan like a Honda Civic? 

[Sedna]

9 hours ago, cletrac1922 said:

Sedna

Amazing objects around The Crux, known as the Southern Cross, situated in the Milky Way

Contains Coalsack Nebula, Jewel Box, which is absolutely amazing, consisting of white, yellow, blue and red stars, hence its name

Omega Centauri is also located adjacent to The Crux, and when giving presentations to Joey's, 7-9 yo's, scout movement, tell them when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, one of the things he had to do for NASA, was to see how far he could hit a golf ball

Neil Armstrong's golf ball is in space,

Omega Centauri looks like the dimples on a golf ball, hence its nick name, Neil Armstrong's golf ball

Some of the rural areas now becoming light polluted due to mining industry, and coal seam gas electricity generation, still heaps of areas clear skies

Come on down

No need to bring a scope, have several, and club has loan dobs as well

John

 

Thanks John, I will definitely DM you if I'm ever in Australia! That would be a dream trip for me.

[Cosmic Geoff]

18 hours ago, Louis D said:

Why couldn't he use the Celestron EQ Wedge for NexStar 6/8SE with it for longer exposures?  Is it that poor of a piece of kit?

I have used the C8 SE alt-azimuth mount for planetary astrophotography.  I found that it drifted about quite a lot and I was relying on the stacking software to take out the drift and get a decent final image.  I wouldn't waste my time putting it on a wedge and trying to do long exposure deep-space astrophotography with it.