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Philip R

a nagging Nagler dilemma

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Posted (edited)

Having purchased a TeleVue 13mm Nagler/Type 1 from @25585 a few months ago, I have a nagging Nagler dilemma...

Do I go for the 13mm/Type 6 as FLO have 10% off the SRP. I admit this is a tempting offer and certainly would suit my TeleVue Ranger and 're-modded' Meade ETX105. What are your thoughts? 

Edited by Philip R

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Why not go for a different focal length first instead of duplicating a focal length you already have?  Once you have all your focal length holes filled, go back and start upgrading things.  That's what I've been doing over the past 20 years of observing.  That's why I have so many duplicates at certain focal lengths.  Since I don't need the money right now, I just keep them all for comparisons instead of trying to remember how things used to look in long gone eyepieces.  I never understood the constant churn of buying and selling so many amateur astronomers go through unless it's because they're really short of cash or storage space.

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My 'buying' rule of thumb ... I ask myself why I want to buy it; what do I hope to achieve with it that I cannot achieve without it. If I cannot provide a satisfactory response to that question, then it is probably a purchase I can do without.

In case that comes off sounding too Utopian, I should maybe state that I do not always follow that rule, but, as I say, those are usually the purchases I end up wishing I hadn't made.

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Lots of reviews out there on the 13T1 and 13T6.  I wouldn’t worry too much about those reviews, but the obvious difference is the huge reduction in size and weight with the T6.  If the size / weight of the T1 doesn’t bother you, I’d stick with it myself.

But the T6 is such a little tempter.......

Ed.

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Louis makes a valid point, and I guess I would ask where you see your collection going in future?

I've used t6 nags in the past, admittedly not the 13mm and thought they were lovely, compact eyepieces and excellent performers.

As to the benefits of upgrading at the same focal length, I can only recount a tale that happened at Lucksall a few years ago. Moonshane was perfectly happy with his 16mm Nag T1 (I think I've remembered that correctly), and considered it a great way of avoiding having to spend so much money on the latest eyepieces......until someone handed him a 17mm Ethos. The different was pretty significant, enough to see the 16 moved on, so modern designs and coatings do make a difference.

@Louis D I'm sure most of the churn for many of us is financially driven, not wanting or being able to have large sums tied up in expensive kit that gets used alot less frequently over here because of the weather!

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This won't help - but you started it. :grin:

I've got the full set of Nagler T6 and keep coming back to them. Nothing else gives this big a field in so small a package with a view this nice. It may be a personal thing, but eye placement is "right there" as well, effortless, like coming home. They travel so well, easily stowing away wherever there's space in the bag.

They're not the newest or the widest or the cheapest or the (very) smallest - but by Herschel, they are compelling!

Regardless of what else I use, I'm keeping the T6's. :happy11:

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From what I read, the 13mm T1 is a great EP, so aside from the alleged kidney bean effect, you most likely wont see that much benefit in the real world use between a T1 and a T6. The Kidney bean effect is dependent of how you place your eye, and it is something you can train yourself into avoiding and/or placing your eye correctly... Initially I had a kidney bean effect on my 5mm X-Cel ep but once I used it a few times I haven't seen a bean in ages... I'd say got for another focal length.

 

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Or you could just do what I did when I purchased the 10mm Delos.... Completely forget you own the 10mm Radian.  However, it was one of the best mistakes I have made as the Delos is excellent. 

 

I have a couple of the Type 6 EPs and they are great.  So compact and light weight which belies the wide field experience they deliver.  However, as others have suggested, I would be more likely to fill in gaps in my focal lengths before I start duplicating.

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The 13mm is one of my most used and according to CN the T6 is lighter and has better coatings, so really it is up to you.  One of the differences will be how it feels ergonomically, I don't like smoothsides so it depends on what pleasure you get out of using it.  Having said that, rather than repeat the focal length if you haven't got the 16mm T5 (that has the reputation of being the smallest Nagler) this diminutive gem punches well above it's apparent size. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, DirkSteele said:

Or you could just do what I did when I purchased the 10mm Delos.... Completely forget you own the 10mm Radian.  However, it was one of the best mistakes I have made as the Delos is excellent. 

 

I have a couple of the Type 6 EPs and they are great.  So compact and light weight which belies the wide field experience they deliver.  However, as others have suggested, I would be more likely to fill in gaps in my focal lengths before I start duplicating.

first paragraph/first line/second half... Mine is the 6mm... not 10mm.

second paragraph/second sentence... That was my thoughts too.

Edited by Philip R

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I started out with T1 Naglers, then compared them to T6's and saw a difference in terms of comfort, light scatter control, sharpness and light throughput so moved to a set of T6's (all but the 11mm for some reason) and enjoyed them a lot. The Steve at FLO loaned me a Pentax XW and again I saw some slight improvements that I liked so eventually the T6's were replaced either by XW's or by Ethos. All the differences were really quite slight and all are very good eyepieces. Depends how fussy you want to be really - if you don't see any difference, or at least not one that you value, then stick with what you have. There a many other factors (eg: seeing conditions, scope collimation etc) that will have much more effect on the views than the differences between these eyepieces I reckon. In the "wobbly stack" the eyepiece is towards the bottom.

Doesn't stop us discussing them quite a bit though :smiley:

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The 13mm T6 had become my first nagler and provided me with my initial encounter of M13, quite superb but subsequently replaced with 100 degree eps for dobsonian use.  If considering anew for use with a small aperture refractor and in a compact format, I would perhaps favour a 13mm DeLIte.

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As mentioned above by @Stu I did have the 16mm T2 and loved it but the 17mm Ethos has noticably more contrast. The view was clearly wider but that's not what amazed me. It was the contrast which was far superior. I liked the T2 and T1 Naglers as they didn't suffer the chromatic aberration I see on the moon with Ethos, Delos and new Naglers. Not many others seem to see this but it bugged me. I have since bought a 19mm Panoptic, plus 11mm, 9mm and 7mm Delites all of which I love and don't see this CA either. BUT the contrast and sharpness of the newer eyepieces is noticeable in my experience. Annoyingly, I still feel that T2 and T1s did a bit better on cyclops solar. Too late now though! As always, the differences are slight but for me anyway apparent, especially on that night at a dark site with 16" of aperture.

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If budget is no object then maybe it's worth buying to see if you like the T6 more.......or wind up liking them both for different reasons?!!!  Or take the view of selling on the one you like the least.  But certainly if money is an object, I'd be exploring other focal lengths if there are still have gaps.  

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I have just ordered the 13mm/Type 6. :evil62:

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If I can't take a full set of eyepieces somewhere, the 13mm T6 is probably the first one I pick out of my collection.

James

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27 minutes ago, JamesF said:

If I can't take a full set of eyepieces somewhere, the 13mm T6 is probably the first one I pick out of my collection.

James

I am surprised how much time and use a 13mm T6 gets in my dob. I am sure that it is surpassed by other EPs, but it gives a lovely view in a lot of situations. Naglers do suffer badly from CA on the moon, but that is generally not one of my targets.

I would wholeheartedly recommend the 13mm T6, but if you have an older version stick with it, as others have said the differences are small.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Uplooker said:

I am surprised how much time and use a 13mm T6 gets in my dob. I am sure that it is surpassed by other EPs, but it gives a lovely view in a lot of situations. Naglers do suffer badly from CA on the moon, but that is generally not one of my targets.

I would wholeheartedly recommend the 13mm T6, but if you have an older version stick with it, as others have said the differences are small.

I concur Ian, I use a pair of them in my Binoviewer , and they are simply  superb from f15 to f 5.3

Edited by Saganite

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I'm a fan of the 11mm T6 too - lovely little eyepiece that is the workhorse of my fixed focal length eyepieces. Only gripe would be modest eye relief if you wear glasses, otherwise very comfortable. Great secondhand buy if you can find one for £160-£170.

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Posted (edited)

It's arrived! :blob1:

PIC044.JPG.54acb21c9b4e6e69cda54fdd37a1defe.JPG

From left to right... 13mm 'smooth-side' Plossl* ---> 13mm Nagler/Type 1 ---> 13mm Nagler/Type 6.

 

* added for comparison.

Edited by Philip R
PIC044.JPG added + additional text.

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On 30/07/2018 at 17:27, Uplooker said:

I am surprised how much time and use a 13mm T6 gets in my dob. I am sure that it is surpassed by other EPs, but it gives a lovely view in a lot of situations. Naglers do suffer badly from CA on the moon, but that is generally not one of my targets.

I would wholeheartedly recommend the 13mm T6, but if you have an older version stick with it, as others have said the differences are small.

Thank goodness somebody else sees this! I Love TV eyepieces (they are all I have) but have recently changed to Panoptics, Delites and Plossls to avoid this. That said, You are the only person that I know sees it so maybe it's just us LOL!

I am positive Philip will love his new eyepiece though. 

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