Celestron SkyProdigy review

[RobertI]

I recently acquired a used SkyProdigy mount and thought I'd share my initial experiences. There seems to be very little information out there on owner experiences so I'd be interested to hear other owners thoughts.

The mount

The mount was upgraded by the previous owner - improvements include improved azimuth bearing and a homemade wooden tripod, which I have to say is wonderfully light and solid, and doesn't clank when you move it late at night - I think I could be a convert to wooden tripods!

My main reason for buying the mount was that I needed a lightweight altaz goto mount which is very quick to setup for widefield visual and EAA . I had been considering the Star Adventurer, but the SkyProdigy came up, which basically includes Starsense, for £200, so seemed interesting. I had never thought that the idea of mounting the starsense camera on the mount rather than on the scope was a good one, and I could find very few reviews of the SkyProdigy but had a vague feeling that reviews and owner experiences had not been good, so I was very trepidacious, but I just couldn't resist the Starsense so took a punt.  

Initial impressions

The mount seems solid and well put together. No significant play was apparent in either axis. The dovetail clamp is interesting, it seems overengineered I guess to ensure consistent alignment with the camera, but the down side is the dovetail has to be slid in. Another thing is that nowhere in any of the reviews/literature have I seen mentioned that a 130P reflector (one of the two scopes I was planning on using; the 130 is a standard scope which comes with the mount) cannot reach the zenith without hitting the legs.  On reflection this might only be a problem for visual but something I could live with. For EAA it seems that being anywhere near the zenith causes rapid field rotation, so again not an issue. I also noticed that the starsense  lens assembly does not seem to be pointing directly out of its cylindrical housing, but at an angle. Something to bear in mind if there are goto problems which need explaining.

First outing

First outing last night had a slow and frustrating start. I did get it to align eventually but enountered a number of problems along the way including too few stars, enough stars but unable to solve, a random error message and on one occasion just stopping reponding completely with the message "moving to home position" permanently on handset. The first and possibly second of these could be explained by the brightish summer sky (which was dark by the end of the test) and my built up horizon, not sure about the others. I was powering from mains, but with a male to female cigar lighter socket halfway along, so a better power source with a screw in connector would be good in future. Another issue was that the the anti-cordwrap didn't seem to be working even though set to 'on'. Once aligned though it put the object halfway to the centre of the FOV at x20 with a 50 degree e/p. I re-aligned the scope and camera using the 'starsense camera align' feature and it was then able to put on object halfway to the centre at x43 with a 68 degree e/p. This I believe is good enough to get it onto the Lodestar chip for EAA with at least my 72mm frac at F3, so looking hopeful. I finished by switching everything off, powering up and letting the scope self-align. This it successfully did in a few minutes (with at least one "to few stars" message) and I was able to then use the Sky Tour feature to show me some interesting objects I had not viewed before. There was little vibration at those magnifications and I cannot see mayself going above around 80-100x with that scope, so vibration should not be an issue, especially with the small scope. I will test the 130P Heritage at some point which may be more of a challenge, especially on a breezy night. Next outing I will try some EAA and see if the tracking is good enough for images at up to 30 seconds at around 220mm focal length.

Conclusion so far

The apparent glitches have made me concerned about the consistency and reliability of the mount, but if these prove to be user error or sky/environmental conditions, which I hope is the case, then the mount looks very promising. I am hoping that darker skies and perhaps fettling of the settings may eliminate these issues. My current plan is to leave the 72mm frac permanently on the mount, which may restrict visual with such a small scope, but hopefully make for some great EAA. The fact I saw some hithertoo unseen objects within a few minutes of aligning showed that visual with a goto mount does pay dividends. I could even conceivably put batteries in the thing and carry the whole lot to a nearby dark field. So far, a promising start, but more real world testing required.

Pics below, with the assistance of Iron Man junior.

 

 

 

 

[johninderby]

One thing that you need to do with this mount is to set the sky condition (dark sky, urban etc) otherwise you may have problems getting an alignment and the mount may not be able to,find enough stars if it is set to say dark sky and you are observing from a light polluted urban garden. 

The procedure is there in the manual but a lot of people miss this vital bit of set up info.

 

Go to the Starsense menu.

“Capture Setting exposure time settings for the camera to use under different sky conditions. Capture Setting should be changed only if you are having difficulties aligning the telescope using the StarSense alignment method. The options below represent various conditions that could result in unsuccessful alignment under normal capture settings.”

 

[RobertI]

Thanks for that John, I did check this setting and it is set to 'urban/hazy which I think is the default setting which the manual says should work under most conditions, but I shall definitely revisit this if I have problems. ?

[Chris]

I've often wondered about these mounts, and did wonder who had bought Ade's pimped out version of the Prodigy. I have to say it looks good with the wooden tripod, I hope the alignment becomes a bit more reliable, it would be a real buzz just to plonk the mount down and let it do everything itself with no worries. 

Thanks for spotting that there is very little review material on this mount, and I hope you can add further to this when you use the mount more.

Geez! I remember when you told me you were having a baby, and now look how big he's got! Time goes so quick. It's my girls 4th birthday today, that's gone fast too! 

[johninderby]

I have one of these mounts. The box with it in is somewhere in the loft amoung the pile of still to be opened boxes from the move. 

Got perfect alignment the first time I used it. Made up an adaptor plate to fit a standard EQ5 type tripod so it could be fitted to my Berlebach tripod. Will have to dig it out one of these days.  ?

[RobertI]

9 hours ago, Lockie said:

I've often wondered about these mounts, and did wonder who had bought Ade's pimped out version of the Prodigy. I have to say it looks good with the wooden tripod, I hope the alignment becomes a bit more reliable, it would be a real buzz just to plonk the mount down and let it do everything itself with no worries. 

Thanks for spotting that there is very little review material on this mount, and I hope you can add further to this when you use the mount more.

Geez! I remember when you told me you were having a baby, and now look how big he's got! Time goes so quick. It's my girls 4th birthday today, that's gone fast too! 

Yes it was a shame I didn't more time to speak to Ade, a font of knowledge and a true gentleman. In fact I probably wouldn't have bought the mount if hadn't been Ade selling. Actually your name came up in conversation actually, he said you bought a 6" Newt off him once, but you didn't have time to use it, so he bought it back off you! 

It is frightening how quickly the littluns grow, your eldest was about 2 when I first saw him, he must be 6 or 7 now?

9 hours ago, johninderby said:

I have one of these mounts. The box with it in is somewhere in the loft amoung the pile of still to be opened boxes from the move. 

Got perfect alignment the first time I used it. Made up an adaptor plate to fit a standard EQ5 type tripod so it could be fitted to my Berlebach tripod. Will have to dig it out one of these days.  ?

It's reassuring to know you got good alignment John. What sort of scope(s) did you use on it? And the EQ5 mod for your Berlebach must have worked wonders, because from what I can gather standard tripod was next to useless. 

Looks like it might be clear tonight so I'll try and give it another whirl.  

[johninderby]

Used a 70ED refractor on it and also a 127 Mak.

Chucked the standard tripod in the skip when I moved. Was usable without the legs being extended but  had to use a little footstool to sit on.

 

 

[RobertI]

Slight setback - it seems I have one of the early models which does not support remote control via a cable from the handset, and cannot be upgraded to do so. Good news is that my 10m handset extension cable works, so at worst I can remote control the mount using the handset at the kitchen table! Should work fine.

[Chris]

16 hours ago, RobertI said:

Yes it was a shame I didn't more time to speak to Ade, a font of knowledge and a true gentleman. In fact I probably wouldn't have bought the mount if hadn't been Ade selling. Actually your name came up in conversation actually, he said you bought a 6" Newt off him once, but you didn't have time to use it, so he bought it back off you! 

It is frightening how quickly the littluns grow, your eldest was about 2 when I first saw him, he must be 6 or 7 now?

Yeah Ade is a cool guy, not sure about his memory though ? I bought an 8" f/4 CF imaging Newtonian off him, only that it turned out that it didn't reach focus with a DLSR which was a bit surprising, think it was a GSO version, anyway when I next spoke to Ade a couple of months later I mentioned this and he mentioned that he missed having it, so we met back up and did a swap. I think he intended to cut the tube down a bit so it did reach focus, something I didn't fancy doing with carbon fibre as I have no idea how it cuts.

Yeah they certainly grow fast, Alex is 7 in November, don't seem long ago that I held him when he was born! 

[RobertI]

2 hours ago, Lockie said:

Yeah Ade is a cool guy, not sure about his memory though ? I bought an 8" f/4 CF imaging Newtonian off him, only that it turned out that it didn't reach focus with a DLSR which was a bit surprising, think it was a GSO version, anyway when I next spoke to Ade a couple of months later I mentioned this and he mentioned that he missed having it, so we met back up and did a swap. I think he intended to cut the tube down a bit so it did reach focus, something I didn't fancy doing with carbon fibre as I have no idea how it cuts.

Yeah they certainly grow fast, Alex is 7 in November, don't seem long ago that I held him when he was born! 

To be fair it’s probably partly my memory that’s at fault! ?

[RobertI]

I’m sure Ade won’t mind me saying, but he has sold all his equipment and bought a single portable all rounder,  and he went for ........ a CPC Deluxe 800 Edge! Great minds....?

[Chris]

1 hour ago, RobertI said:

I’m sure Ade won’t mind me saying, but he has sold all his equipment and bought a single portable all rounder,  and he went for ........ a CPC Deluxe 800 Edge! Great minds....?

The mans got good taste  

[pluton]

What fascinaing Iron Man Hero!!

Regards,

Paul

[RobertI]

Aaaaaaaaaaargh! Sorry.....had to get that out. Just had another session with the mount and was very pleased to find the scope completely aligned itself first time and subsequent gotos were put the object well in the FOV. So decided to have a look at some open clusters , slewed to the first object, and the mount slowed, then abruptly stopped with a loud clicking noise. The handset displayed the message "HC Trap Occurred..\Source\align\align.c Line:540.". Switched on the torch and the handset cable had got trapped between the moving base of the mount and the top of the tripod leg.   Switching off and on does not get rid of the message. The mount can be made to move in alt and az (so hopefully no motor damage), but alignment does not work and the motors respond in a wierd way. 

Having done some research it appears that the only way to get rid of this message is to relaod the firmware, but I think I already have the latest version installed, so not sure I can force a reload. Getting a horrid sinking feeling......?

Will try re-loading firmware over the weekend and hope......?

[RobertI]

SUCCESS! After a long and troublesome few days I finally managed to get the mount working again. Updating the firmware just did not work, the mount was not recognised as connected to the laptop, so I think what I read is true, that older Skyprodigies cannot be reflashed or remote controlled via the handset. In desperation I contacted FLO, and without prompting they telephoned Celestron UK, who suggested that I plug the handset into the Aux port and try it. Bingo! Everything worked and tonight I was able to get the scope to self-align (under a bright moon), track and do a sky tour. So it seems that the handset port has been damaged in some way. No matter, it now works!

 Thank you Martin at @FLO for going above and beyond the call of duty to help me and thankyou Celestron UK for the clever suggestion. ??

I have just had a very nice hour of observing some clusters and doubles with my 72mm frac, courtesy of Sky Tour. Its a clever utility that finds object in the vicinity of where you are pointing, which is great as I viewed six or seven clusters and doubles without having to move the chair or eyepiece. It was a lovely relaxing way to observe. I felt that all I needed was a remote control zoom eyepiece and remote control focussing!

I was planning to get a 130PDS for visual on this mount, but I think it may be a bit too long to be stable at higher mags,  and a stubby 102 or 127 Mak might be better. 

Looking forward to getting out again soon and sharing some more observations.

 

 

 

[johninderby]

Glad you have got it sorted. So the HC port was damaged when you bought it?

[RobertI]

6 hours ago, johninderby said:

Glad you have got it sorted. So the HC port was damaged when you bought it?

Thanks John. Everything was fine when I bought it, but the cable bacame trapped during a slew and must have damaged the port when put under tension. I think the cause is possibly the wooden tripod mod, which is excellent, but creates jamming points at the top of the leg. Not having seen the original legs I cannot compare. I will just have to watch the cable in future, which is a shame, as the point of the mount is you just let it do its thing so you can do other things.

Still very relieved its working though. ?

 

[Chris]

Good to hear, Rob, I didn't even know you could use the Aux port for the hand controller. Good on FLO for helping out  

[johninderby]

Will have to dig out my mount which is somewhere in the loft but no way am I rumaging around the loft in this weather. ☹️

[RobertI]

...another nice feature about this mount worth mentioning is that it has a real time clock so no need to re-enter the time every time it is used.

So if using the batteries too, it really is a case of plonking it down in the garden (as level as possible), switching on, selecting auto-align and letting it do its thing. I think it has definitely met my requirements for reducing set up time!  

[RobertI]

In the spirit of maintaining a log for posterity I continue to post my experiences.....

Was out again last night and have good and bad news.

Good news: I tried some EAA and the mount seems able to put the object on the chip and track nicley for 30 seconds at 250mm FL and a lodestar camera - not too demanding. Results with the crescent nebula below (incorrectly labelled as the Cocoon) - not brilliant, there was a nearly full moon and high hazy cloud and the scope was reduced a bit too aggressively to F3.4, but a result.

Bad news: The Azimuth axis was starting to slow down to a crawl in one direction only as if it was getting stuck. Didn't affect alignment, goto or tracking but not right and sounded terminal. Looked on the net and seems to be a common problem with SLT mounts (the same as a SkyProdigy) and usually sorted by sending back to manufacturer under warranty...which I obviously cannot do.

[RobertI]

Another quick update for posterity. I have replaced the motor (see here for full story) and had a chance to test it a couple of nights ago. To my relief it aligned itself perfectly, did pretty accurate gotos (to within around 15' arc, that's without calibrating the scope and sensor for this session) and tracked nicely. The azimuth motor is now really quiet, much quieter than before, and was actually worth the additional spend for that alone. I had a really good visual session to try it out (see here) and previously had a couple of good EAA sessions while the motor was dying (see here and here).

So what have I learned from owning this mount?

• Having a lightweight, easy to set up goto mount really maximises my time under the stars and is great for getting me out there as often as possible.
• The Sky Prodigy / SLT / Star Discovery / Nexstar4/5  range of mounts are very capable with lightweight scopes.
• Altaz mounts are not all plain sailing - cord wrap/jam issues abound and viewing at the zenith is a no go for EAA/imaging.
• This style of alaz mount cannot reach the zenith anyway with anything but the shortest of scopes - a shame for visual as many of the best summer objects are overhead, but is something I can live with.
• The database of 4000 objects actually is not enough for me, but fortunately the ability to enter coordiantes or remote control (on later versions, sadly mine does not have this) solves this.

And what about Starsense?

Well, it works, and I don't feel I have wasted my money, but I think I would prefer to have Celestron's All Star Align as it works under all conditions and is almost as quick to use. But I would also say following:

• It actually seems to cope well with a certain amount of sky brightness and moonlight, but cloud and possibly full moon can throw it out.
• The SkyProdigy does not come with ability to do a normal 3 star align, which I would say is essential to be able to fall back on if it fails to align. Once this happens you have to use solar system align, but what if there are no moon or planets? You're stuffed.
• If you have a restricted horizon all round it can struggle, and you have to tell it where to point (a 'manual' align), which kind of defeats the point, so not for everyone. Fortunately you only really need a decent horizon for a 90-120 degrees for it to work automatically and it was fine for me.
• I could not get the camera and scope to align perfectly, but actually it was good enough.
• Generally I don't think StarSense is a good tool for a beginner, if it doesn't work out of the box, it's pretty complex to get your head around how to fix it.

A word of warning - the very early versions like mine cannot link to a PC so cannot be remote controlled or upgraded - a pain. I also suspect the database is smaller than even the 4000 quoted, but could be wrong.

Final point, I velcroed the handset to the top of the mount so the cable can never be trapped - the handset is also much more accessible from here. I now have the confidence to let the mount just auto align without me standing and watching!

Hope that will help future buyers, although I'm not sure they actually make it anymore!?

Rob