How bad is my situation (to get inton astronomy)?

[StarFiveSky]

2 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I didn't take that image, so I don't know the details.  I just found it on CN as an example of what is possible with image stacking.  Here's what a recent image of Mars looks like:

As you can see, the central part of Mars is basically featureless due to the dust storm.

Still looks nice  Yet I'm missing a link to a telescope that is compareable to the mak 127 because holy stars is it expensive (500-600€) 

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, StarFiveSky said:

Yet I'm missing a link to a telescope that is compareable to the mak 127 because holy stars is it expensive (500-600€)

I picked up my 127 Mak used for $200 off of CN classifieds here in the states a couple of years back.  There are plenty of them showing up monthly here, so I suspect you could track down a good used one wherever you're located.  You'd still need a decent alt-az mount like the Sky-Watcher AZ5 to mount it on.

You could go cheaper with a 6 inch Dob that would actually perform slightly better than Mak due to its smaller secondary obstruction and slightly larger aperture.  An 8 inch Dob would completely outclass the Mak on all targets.

[StarFiveSky]

7 hours ago, Louis D said:

I picked up my 127 Mak used for $200 off of CN classifieds here in the states a couple of years back.  There are plenty of them showing up monthly here, so I suspect you could track down a good used one wherever you're located.  You'd still need a decent alt-az mount like the Sky-Watcher AZ5 to mount it on.

You could go cheaper with a 6 inch Dob that would actually perform slightly better than Mak due to its smaller secondary obstruction and slightly larger aperture.  An 8 inch Dob would completely outclass the Mak on all targets.

Is the 8" really that much better than the 6" ?

Is it future proof (to some degree) ?

Can I just buy it without anything additional equipment and is it upgradeable / can I put filters and lenses afterwards to make it better?

Any other 8" telescopes ?

 

[StarFiveSky]

8 hours ago, Louis D said:

I picked up my 127 Mak used for $200 off of CN classifieds here in the states a couple of years back.  There are plenty of them showing up monthly here, so I suspect you could track down a good used one wherever you're located.  You'd still need a decent alt-az mount like the Sky-Watcher AZ5 to mount it on.

You could go cheaper with a 6 inch Dob that would actually perform slightly better than Mak due to its smaller secondary obstruction and slightly larger aperture.  An 8 inch Dob would completely outclass the Mak on all targets.

Holy snails, the FLO Dob 8" Site wants 65€ for shipment.... Not an option. Any other links ?

[Stub Mandrel]

9 minutes ago, StarFiveSky said:

Holy snails, the FLO Dob 8" Site wants 65€ for shipment.... Not an option. Any other links ?

They are big, heavy and fragile. You could try Teleskop Express, a German Skywatcher distributor.

[Ricochet]

The dob suggestions do not fit with the original request for a telescope that can be transported on a motorbike. If the 127Mak is too expensive then I would consider the Skywatcher Heritage 130p plus a suitable photo tripod/mount. 

See This thread on such a set up

[StarFiveSky]

19 hours ago, Louis D said:

I didn't take that image, so I don't know the details.  I just found it on CN as an example of what is possible with image stacking.  Here's what a recent image of Mars looks like:

As you can see, the central part of Mars is basically featureless due to the dust storm.

Btw Source: mars 03 07 2018 - First pictures - Photo Gallery - Cloudy Nights 

looks like OP from the picture used a 6" one. So 8" would be much much better in terms of quality (clarity) or magnification (or apperture? Just learnt what it is :D) ?

[LukeSkywatcher]

On 10/07/2018 at 00:11, Davey-T said:

Binoculars, 2 spotting scopes stuck together ? 

Dave

Binoculars are 2 refractors stuck together.

[LukeSkywatcher]

2 hours ago, Ricochet said:

The dob suggestions do not fit with the original request for a telescope that can be transported on a motorbike. If the 127Mak is too expensive then I would consider the Skywatcher Heritage 130p plus a suitable photo tripod/mount. 

See This thread on such a set up

As compact and light as the Heritage is, i cant think of a way to transport it on a bike unless you add a sidecar to the bike. 

[LukeSkywatcher]

6 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

They are big, heavy and fragile. You could try Teleskop Express, a German Skywatcher distributor.

Ive bought from here a few times:

https://www.astroshop.eu/

Most recently..............Bresser ar 102 xs refrac:

 

[Ricochet]

16 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

As compact and light as the Heritage is, i cant think of a way to transport it on a bike unless you add a sidecar to the bike. 

Thanks. Is it too big for a backpack then? 

[LukeSkywatcher]

8 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

Thanks. Is it too big for a backpack then? 

The OTA could possibly fit in one, but the Dob mount wont. 

[Alan64]

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2705_Skywatcher-Heritage-130P-FlexTube-Dobson---6years--.html

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7222_GSO-Dobsonian-Telescope-150C---6-inch-aperture-with-fine-Crayford-focuser.html

 

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7789_Bresser-4802600---102-mm-Refractor--f-600-mm--OTA.html ...and... https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1753_TS-Optics-Altazimuth-Mount-GSAZ-with-fine-adjustment-and-tripod.html ...or... https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p8069_TS-Optics-Altazimuth-Mount-with-Fine-Adjustment-and-Quick-Release.html

[StarFiveSky]

9 hours ago, Alan64 said:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2705_Skywatcher-Heritage-130P-FlexTube-Dobson---6years--.html

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7222_GSO-Dobsonian-Telescope-150C---6-inch-aperture-with-fine-Crayford-focuser.html

Those recommendations are really good, especially the second one! (And the price is perfect for me as well (incl. shipment))

 

Quote

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7789_Bresser-4802600---102-mm-Refractor--f-600-mm--OTA.html ...and... https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1753_TS-Optics-Altazimuth-Mount-GSAZ-with-fine-adjustment-and-tripod.html ...or... https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p8069_TS-Optics-Altazimuth-Mount-with-Fine-Adjustment-and-Quick-Release.html

Ouch. Those tri / pods are just as expensive as the telescope itself. And something seems weird about the weight that they can withstand / carry <-- while the telescope weights 17kg(?) , the tripod can only carry ~9 kg.

[Alan64]

1 hour ago, StarFiveSky said:

Ouch. Those tri / pods are just as expensive as the telescope itself. And something seems weird about the weight that they can withstand / carry <-- while the telescope weights 17kg(?) , the tripod can only carry ~9 kg.

No, the 102mm f/5.9 achromatic-refractor weighs only 3.6 kg.  In any event, this refractor, within this kit, would be better-balanced in observing the gamut; the Moon and planets, and the  brighter deep-sky objects, including double-stars...

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7793_Bresser-4790907---Refractor-Messier-AR-90-900-with-EXOS-1.html

The longer an achromat, the less false-colour will be seen when viewing brighter objects.  Chromatic aberration degrades an image; blurs, smears it.  Refractors require little to no maintenance, and if cared for they will, theoretically, last forever.

I must say, it's a "strange" thing among these entry-level kits that a more-complicated equatorial mount is included, and instead of a more-intuitive and user-friendly alt-azimuth.  Alt-azimuths are no more difficult to manufacture, yet the manufacturers seem to think that an equatorial is best for beginners, when it's actually the other way around.  Consequently, I think that the industry does this simply to increase profits, and with little to no regard for the consumer.  For example, you want a particular telescope, but you have to get an equatorial that's included with it, whether you want it or not.  Then the user later acquires an alt-azimuth, and the equatorial gathers dust.  The industry knows that an alt-azimuth is more appropriate and popular, and they're going to capitalise on that.  Some entry-level kits do come with alt-azimuth mounts, but not that many, and most if not all of those are not of very good quality and stability.

This kit would instill a pride-of-ownership, in addition to its performance, like no other kit at its price-point...

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2683_Skywatcher-Evostar-102-on-EQ3---Refractor-telescope-102-1000mm.html

...and yes, it too comes with an equatorial. 

[Alan64]

But for the here and now, I must also say that the best buy, price-wise, would be that 150mm f/8 "Dobsonian"(actually, a Newtonian on a Dobson alt-azimuth).

[StarFiveSky]

1 hour ago, Alan64 said:

But for the here and now, I must also say that the best buy, price-wise, would be that 150mm f/8 "Dobsonian"(actually, a Newtonian on a Dobson alt-azimuth).

Thanks for all the links and info, you seem very wise in terms of astronomy any optics.

Though I'm not sure which telescope you're referring to. This one? https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7222_GSO-Dobsonian-Telescope-150C---6-inch-aperture-with-fine-Crayford-focuser.html.

The issue is that I'll most likely carry the entire telescope to an observatory nearby (15mins walking time, won't be able to drive there with the motorcycle yet).

Maybe I should visit the observatory at night just to determine whether anything is visible there...

(I mean they place the observatory specifically there for some reason right??).

 

[Alan64]

Yes, that's the one.

Well, some observatories were built at a time when there was little to no light-pollution....but nowadays...  How old is this one?

You could pull along most any telescope in a cart of some sort whilst walking.  If you fitted an easily-detachable sidecar to the bike, you could carry a telescope in that.

[StarFiveSky]

16 minutes ago, Alan64 said:

Yes, that's the one.

Well, some observatories were built at a time when there was little to no light-pollution....but nowadays...  How old is this one?

You could pull along most any telescope in a cart of some sort whilst walking.  If you fitted an easily-detachable sidecar to the bike, you could carry a telescope in that.

according to the website it was built in 1955.

[Louis D]

The OP has multiple conflicting constraints.  He wants a low cost, highly transportable, large aperture telescope to allow for detailed planetary images.  I think I may have come up with the solution assuming he is good with woodworking and tools and has more spare time than money.

He could locate a donor used Newtonian telescope in rough shape but with good optics and mechanicals.  He could then salvage those parts and build a travel dobsonian of one sort or another.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

6 hours ago, Alan64 said:

I must say, it's a "strange" thing among these entry-level kits that a more-complicated equatorial mount is included, and instead of a more-intuitive and user-friendly alt-azimuth.  Alt-azimuths are no more difficult to manufacture, yet the manufacturers seem to think that an equatorial is best for beginners, when it's actually the other way around.  Consequently, I think that the industry does this simply to increase profits, and with little to no regard for the consumer.  For example, you want a particular telescope, but you have to get an equatorial that's included with it, whether you want it or not.  Then the user later acquires an alt-azimuth, and the equatorial gathers dust.  The industry knows that an alt-azimuth is more appropriate and popular, and they're going to capitalise on that.  Some entry-level kits do come with alt-azimuth mounts, but not that many, and most if not all of those are not of very good quality and stability.

Not sure I agree with the logic behind that. Equatorial mounts with their worm gearing are much more expensive to produce than Alt-Az mounts. I'm sure manufacturers could sell Alt-Az for the same price and make more profit.

The question  should be why do they choose an EQ mount for beginners despite it being less profitable, and the only answer can be they sell more - presumably as it implies a more 'serious' scope. I.e. they may be more appropriate but they aren't 'more popular'.

Perhaps the best option for beginners with small scopes is something like the basic dual function Alt-Az/EQ mount as supplied with the 70/700 Bresser scopes sold cheaply in Aldi. OK, you can't use the EQ mode in the tropics, but it allows easy and rapid switching between the two modes of use and is OK (just) for visual with small scopes. I've fitted the top of my Bresser tripod to EQ3 aluminium tripod legs and happily use it for visual with my smaller scopes.

The upper part of the mount just folds down to give Alt-Az mode:

There are a few higher end alt-az/eg mounts as well, even an EQ6 version.

 

 

[Alan64]

4 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Not sure I agree with the logic behind that. Equatorial mounts with their worm gearing are much more expensive to produce than Alt-Az mounts. I'm sure manufacturers could sell Alt-Az for the same price and make more profit.

The question  should be why do they choose an EQ mount for beginners despite it being less profitable, and the only answer can be they sell more - presumably as it implies a more 'serious' scope. I.e. they may be more appropriate but they aren't 'more popular'.

The Chinese manufacturers are simply cloning what the Japanese manufacturers had produced for decades before the former took it over.  In this instance, I'm referring only to EQ-1 and EQ-2 mounts; the running of the mill.  It's easier and less inexpensive to produce those, given the first instance.  They are most used to doing so.  What would be the alt-az equivalents to an EQ-1 and an EQ-2?  The Vixen Portas, I'd answer...

https://cdn3.volusion.com/psygr.belxm/v/vspfiles/photos/5863TALLPLUS-3.jpg?1455637310

...although by themselves, each, they're priced at the level of EQ-1 and EQ-2 kits(with telescopes included).  Remove the labels, the marques, and see them for what they really are: simple alt-azimuths; the running of the mill yet again.  They're no harder to produce, quite easier perhaps, yet they're not included in said equatorials' steads, and for the beginners.  Why not?

One purpose in including these basic equatorials within the entry-level kits could be, perhaps, possibly, that they just might ensure future acquisitions of EQ-3s, EQ-5s, EQ-6s, and even EQ-8s?  But at the same time, they can and have been responsible for confounding many beginners, offing their interest in the pastime altogether, and that is most regrettable.  In that regard, the industry is backwards.

Incidentally, for decades, in the U.S., Parks Optical produced some of the world's finest Newtonians, and mounted, marketed and sold them on huge, precision equatorials...

http://www.parksoptical.com/index2.php?cPath=21_114&amp;cat=Superior+System

http://www.parksoptical.com/index2.php?cPath=21_115&amp;cat=Observatory+Series

Then John Dobson arrived on the scene, with his miniaturisation of William Parson's alt-azimuth...

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-giant-reflecting-telescope-of-william-parsons-3rd-earl-of-rosse-picture-id613477478?k=6&amp;m=613477478&amp;s=612x612&amp;w=0&amp;h=5He1QnP38ZJG_6joWrDeHdY6GVakTB0EQJfK2GTMU8A=

...and eventually put Parks out of business.

[cletrac1922]

On ‎11‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 19:35, StarFiveSky said:

Is the 8" really that much better than the 6" ?

Is it future proof (to some degree) ?

Can I just buy it without anything additional equipment and is it upgradeable / can I put filters and lenses afterwards to make it better?

Any other 8" telescopes ?

 

 

Scope choice depends if just want to observe moon, planets and other DSO's, then a SW 10" collapsible dob is weapon of choice

If you want something which tracks, to do AP, then go for something like a SW ED80 on a HEQ5 or 6 mount

Have attached both my weapons

Dob does not track, where the ED80 tracks on EQ5 mount

ED80 shown with solar filter as well, taken at recent public solar viewing club day

 

[StarFiveSky]

15 hours ago, Louis D said:

The OP has multiple conflicting constraints.  He wants a low cost, highly transportable, large aperture telescope to allow for detailed planetary images.  I think I may have come up with the solution assuming he is good with woodworking and tools and has more spare time than money.

He could locate a donor used Newtonian telescope in rough shape but with good optics and mechanicals.  He could then salvage those parts and build a travel dobsonian of one sort or another.

 

Looks amazing, though I highly doubt that I will do something with wooodworking here especially because of my little to non-existing knowledge of woodworking etc.

[StarFiveSky]

3 hours ago, StarFiveSky said:

Looks amazing, though I highly doubt that I will do something with wooodworking here especially because of my little to non-existing knowledge of woodworking etc.

EDIT: How do people watch the night sky with their binoculars? Mine (20x50) don't seem to do much, (magnification is not that great). Maybe its my location, where's the nearest "dark spot" / best place to view the night sky? Location (with a bit of privacy ofc ;), who would post their exact pos. online??)