224MC & Fire Capture

[SAW]

Hi,

Recently got one of these cameras, it's my first OSC normally use a mono. In FC if I have the debayer option selected which bayer pattern should I select, is it RG ? and is the algorithm NearestNeighbor ?

According to the FC tutorials its best to record in mono and do the debayering in AutoStakkert or PiPP for example but first I should get the colour levels correct presumably with debayer selected then do I adjust WRed, Blue etc to get the best colour before deselecting the debayer option ready to record in mono ?

Is it normal to have the grid pattern on the screen when in mono, presume this is the colour grid does this go away once it's debayered in AutoStakkert/PiPP ?

If I select Always record undebayered RAW but preview in colour my image on screen is still in mono ?

Thanks

 

[symmetal]

Yes, RG is the right pattern. 'Nearest Neighbour' is the quickest debayer option as it doesn't use the slower algorithms to get the best colour resolution but is fine for previews.

It's best to select to always record in mono and preview in colour. You don't need to remember to switch it off and on then. Processor time taken to debayer can reduce your framerate so leave it to Autostakkert or Pipp to do the debayering as time isn't a factor then.

To set the red and blue gain levels I pointed it at the moon and adjusted them to get a grey image. My red is at 55 and the blue at 95. Once set you don't really need to change them again. You could leave them at the default 50 and do the colour balance in photoshop but I like to see the preview at a realistic colour rather than greeny yellow. ?

The bayer grid pattern will show on the screen when mono is selected and this will disappear when debayered in Autostakkert or Pipp.

Selecting 'always record undebayered' but 'preview in colour' the image on screen should be in colour. You may need to tick the 'debayer' checkbox to the left of the preview image to see it in colour. Leave the checkbox selected as it will automatically 'uncheck' when recording.

I usually minimize the preview screen just before recording to ensure the maximum framerate. Having to update the preview screen while recording takes processor time.

Hope this helps SAW ?

Alan

[SAW]

Hi,

Regarding the colour settings does it make any difference to the data it records if I am debayering in PiPP or AutoStakkert ? ie. is it just for getting the correct colour for viewing on screen or if I'm debayering in FC ?

What should I have USB traffic set to, it's currently on 100 ?

Does brightness do anything to the data or just for the image on screen ?

I presume clicking Highspeed records at 10bit instead of 12bit ?

And what does hardware bin do ?

[symmetal]

If you have the option set to 'always record in mono' it will always record the raw un-debayered data to be later debayered in PiPP or Autostakkert. Selecting debayer on in FC will in this case only affect the preview image you see, and not the data itself. If you have NOT got the 'always record in mono' option ticked, then the data recorded will be debayered and match what debayer mode you have selected in FC.

If the USB traffic is set too high then data frames will be missed as the PC can't cope with the USB data speed. FC normally warns you if it loses data frames suggesting that the USB traffic setting may be set too high. If yours works at 100 with no hiccups in your recording or warning messages then that's OK. I have mine at 80 just to give a bit of margin.

Brightness on the camera setup panel will affect the data. You want to set it so that the histogram is not black clipped, that is the peak at the left of the histogram (your background black) is fully visible and there is a bit of space to the left of the peak on the histogram. You'll find that if you increase the gain on the blue channel to get the colour looking good, the blue 'black peak' on the histogram is slightly to the right of the red and green when you view it in photoshop or similar. You can easily set it to match red and green in photoshop which will get the colour of the dark areas of your picture correct. If the black peak is clipped off then you'll have a job trying to match the dark areas in your image without introducing a colour cast to your background black.

Yes the highspeed mode records 10 bit data rather than the normal 12 bit. If you're not going to be stretching your final image much then 10 bit would be OK though I always have mine left at 12 bit.

Hardware binning is where adjacent pixels are combined into a single pixel of data in the camera. This leads to a lower resolution, but brighter image. Binning 2x2 will reduce the image resolution to half in width and height but each pixel will have 4 times the data, so brighter. This can lead to a better signal to noise ratio. However binning is not so effective in CMOS sensors as the binning only takes place after the data is read from the pixels and so each binned 'superpixel' has a higher read noise than a single pixel. CCD cameras can bin the data before it is read so you only get a single pixel read noise on your binned 'superpixel'. This is a feature of CCD and CMOS sensor chip design.

Hope that helps gain SAW. ?

Alan

[SAW]

Thank you. ?

Now the only other problem I am getting is my frame rate is so slow (7-10fps) when I am using the Saturn settings, if I change to Jupiter the fps goes right up again ? This is even happens when using a small ROI 300x240. I presume it's something to do with the exp settings in the planet profile as Jupiter and Saturn use different exp settings.

[symmetal]

The maximum frame rate possible is the reciprocal of the exposure, that is 1/exposure. If your exposure is 5mS which is 0.005 seconds then the max frame rate is 1/0.005 which is 200fps. An exposure of 100ms gives a max frame rate of 1/0.1 = 10fps. Look at it another way if you expose for 100ms and you do 10 exposures your total exposure time is 10 x 100ms = 1 second. So 10 frames a second.

Your exposure slider when you select Saturn is probably set at around 100mS while Jupiter's slider is probably around 20mS. Saturn is dimmer so needs a longer exposure. However stacking is very good at reducing noise so when imaging Saturn increase the camera gain significantly above its default 375 (unity gain) so that you can get exposures around 20mS or so with a reasonably bright image. It will look horribly noisy on the preview but after stacking a minute or more of recording the bulk of the noise will 'disappear'. Take several recordings at different exposure and gain settings and see which gives you the best result. I've personally found no difference in sharpness of the stacked image in going shorter than 20mS exposure with my 98mm frac and 4x powermate as I've reached the resolution limit of the scope, though a larger aperture scope should enable you to get sharper images at lower exposure times.

A shorter exposure time should give you a better chance of beating the 'seeing' distortion and hopefully give a sharper image.

Alan

[SAW]

Thank you Alan.

[SAW]

Why do my images look almost yellow when viewing the moon with debayer ticked ?

Do I have the wrong settings selected for the 224MC in FC ?

[symmetal]

On the 'Control' section of the left hand panel click the 'More' button to get to additional camera settings. With the default red and blue gain settings of 50 the image is very yellow as you say. I have to increase the blue gain to 95 and the red to 55 to get a greyish moon. It's odd that the default settings don't give a reasonably balanced image. I assume that FC just takes the values given by the ZWO driver and displays them as they are.

It might be worth just trying another capture program like Sharpcap to see if the camera gives the same default yellow picture just to see if FC is somehow altering the settings though I doubt that they are.

ZWO use one driver for all their cameras so unless each camera model has its own section in the driver to hold default settings this could explain why  the defaults aren't more balanced.

Alan

[SAW]

When I click on 'More' and reset the colour values, mine go to Red 52 and Blue 95 ?  Not sure if this changes for each planet profile ? Looks like mine is 52 and 95 for all profiles.

[symmetal]

Ah! Maybe blue 95 and red 52 are the default ZWO values which makes sense to get the colour right. It seems FC doesn't actually read the values from the ZWO driver or direct from the camera when connected as it would overwrite any settings you had saved from previous sessions until you reloaded a planet profile. I don't think I hit reset when I first tried it and just altered the values to ones that looked good. I think it would be useful if FC did ask the camera for default settings automatically if it had never had that camera connected before but it seems it doesn't and relies on you manually selecting reset.

I assume your colours look better now after you hit reset on the 'more' settings.

It probably doesn't save the gain settings for the planet profile as they shouldn't need to be changed once they are set to get the colour right no matter which planet you're imaging.

Alan

[SAW]

I haven’t had chance to try the camera again with the colours reset, was hoping to use it tomorrow for the lunar eclipse but weather not looking good ☹️

[symmetal]

You could always use the wide angle lens that came with the camera in place of your scope for testing it indoors. See if the camera image looks the same as what your're pointing at. It's a good way to check the debayer setting to as if they're wrong the room colours will be way off.  

It's not looking good here for tomorrow either. ?

Alan