Solar and video astronomy

[swag72]

I'm hoping that someone can help here as I am totally and utterly clueless.

My Mum has a Lunt 60mm solar scope and we have finally made some progress on being able to actually see the sun! But it's pretty un-awe inspiring. So she suggested that perhaps we could get a camera to look at it better! 

To make it clear, we don't want to take pictures we just want to look at the sun through something other than an EP which we both find quite uncomfortable. Is there a way to do this? Can any one make any recommendations about where to start even?

[Dr_Ju_ju]

In your arsenal of gear, don't you have something like a QHY 5ii knocking around that you could use ??  It's what I use into my Lunt wedge on a SW 120. May not be the best, but at least you can see things.

Awful image, but gives you an idea of what you can expect....

Capture_00120 11_34_53Z.tif

[Zakalwe]

Hi Sara,

 

We are in deep solar minimum at the moment, so the Sun is very quiescent. There's very little activity, maybe one small sunspot on the disc. Proms and filaments are also pretty small at the moment. These conditions really don't suit a short focal length 'scope like the Lunt.

Any camera will get you something. As usual, a mono will give better results, especially as the light coming through to it is monochrome.

The other thing that I find is that it takes a little while for my eyes to adapt to viewing the Sun through a solarscope. My pet theory is that our optical system isn't used to seeing in such a narrow wavelength of light. Even when the Sun is active, it usually takes 10 or so minutes before my eyes start to really "work" and details start to "pop".

<edit> Also make sure that your scope is onband....surf the tuning back and forth. Make sure that you aren't looking at an internal reflection or "ghost" image. That's caught out more than a few novice solar observers (me included!)

[Laurin Dave]

Hi Sara

I have a pressure tuned Lunt 60mm as well, I use either my ZWO ASI120  or ASI1600MM with either 2x or 5x focal extender, I get Newtons Rings with the 120 and sometimes the 1600 but have bought a tilt adapter and this seems to work.  I get full image of the sun  with the 1600 and  2x, screwing the pressure tuner in and out fine tunes the wavelength passed through showing different features..  for the disc the exposure below was 3ms and low (24%)gain (whatever that means) … up the exposure and you'll see the prominences...  Image below taken 21 June with above set up, false colour done in photoshop.   You'll have to have the computer somewhere dark though..  but it does look great … Hope this helps....  

Regards

Dave

 

 

[MarsG76]

Any camera will do really... from a DSLR with live view to something like a Imaging DMK/DBK41 through a laptop on screen.

 

[swag72]

I'm not interested  in actually imaging the sun..... I was rather hoping for some find of quick fix view that will be better than the EP.....

We're certainly not seeing a ghost image or reflection now...... but it's very underwhelming 

[Stu]

5 minutes ago, swag72 said:

I'm not interested  in actually imaging the sun..... I was rather hoping for some find of quick fix view that will be better than the EP.....

We're certainly not seeing a ghost image or reflection now...... but it's very underwhelming 

I’m really confused by this still Sara, any Ha scope I’ve looked through, right from a PST upwards has usually given very engaging views although at higher powers it can often be dependent upon seeing conditions, and shielding the view to improve the contrast.

I think you’ve explored this in another thread so probably not for here, but would be interesting to know what you find underwhelming. Is it too high expectations do you think, after seeing hi res processed solar images?

In my opinion, the visual view in both white light and Ha beats or equals most full disk images. The amazing high power, hi res closeups you see are a different league obviously, but I can’t see a single shot, or ‘video’ image beating the visual view. Might be wrong, but I suspect not.

[swag72]

Just now, Stu said:

I’m really confused by this still Sara, any Ha scope I’ve looked through, right from a PST upwards has usually given very engaging views although at higher powers it can often be dependent upon seeing conditions, and shielding the view to improve the contrast.

I think you’ve explored this in another thread so probably not for here, but would be interesting to know what you find underwhelming. Is it too high expectations do you think, after seeing hi res processed solar images?

In my opinion, the visual view in both white light and Ha beats or equals most full disk images. The amazing high power, hi res closeups you see are a different league obviously, but I can’t see a single shot, or ‘video’ image beating the visual view. Might be wrong, but I suspect not.

What I am seeing with the 60mm and the Lunt zoom EP is a full disk - It's definitely the sun and not a reflection, it seems focused on the edge, but there's just nothing to see. I can turn the little wheel thing and I can see how the prominences can show with this as there's a kind of hue around the whole disk. But I expected to see some kind of detail on the suns surface.... I don't know it just seems so very...... Meh...  

The Lunt zoom goes from 21mm to 7.5 I think it is and I expected to actually see stuff with it. Solar and visual certainly isn't for me, but I am trying to remain enthusiastic. 

[Stu]

6 minutes ago, swag72 said:

What I am seeing with the 60mm and the Lunt zoom EP is a full disk - It's definitely the sun and not a reflection, it seems focused on the edge, but there's just nothing to see. I can turn the little wheel thing and I can see how the prominences can show with this as there's a kind of hue around the whole disk. But I expected to see some kind of detail on the suns surface.... I don't know it just seems so very...... Meh...  

The Lunt zoom goes from 21mm to 7.5 I think it is and I expected to actually see stuff with it. Solar and visual certainly isn't for me, but I am trying to remain enthusiastic. 

It still seems that something is not right.

Do you actually see prominence stick out from the limb? 

These are very bad shots using a smart phone, do you see stuff like this?

[swag72]

Nope.... not seen a prominence.... I just assumed that there weren't any. 

[Davey-T]

You can check the live view on GONG to see what's on offer.

Dave

http://halpha.nso.edu/

[swag72]

We did that and there was a small prominence..... I just assumed that it's too small to see.

 

[Stu]

23 minutes ago, swag72 said:

Nope.... not seen a prominence.... I just assumed that there weren't any. 

It is pretty unusual for there to be none at all. They might be smaller but there are nearly always some to see. I think there is a problem either with how you are using the scope, or with the scope itself.

Is it a pressure tuned version?

The Lunt 60 will certainly deliver plenty to keep you interested so I genuinely don’t think it is performing correctly. I don’t think a camera will improve matters.

[swag72]

 I don't think it's the pressure tuned one.... it's got the little wheel that is the tilt version I think. I bought it second hand, perhaps that's why ☹️

this sounds silly, but how can I be doing it wrong? It is the sun that we are seeing, I know it is..... I put an EP in..... what can go wrong?

[Davey-T]

Just now, swag72 said:

 I don't think it's the pressure tuned one.... it's got the little wheel that is the tilt version I think. I bought it second hand, perhaps that's why ☹️

Less to go wrong with the tilt version as long as it's tilting it should work.

I can see proms and surface detail with my LS60DS pressure tuned version using the Baader zoom.

Dave

[swag72]

I'm sure the tilt is working fine as I can see a difference when I go from one end to the other. At one extreme there's a red hue around the edge, looking as though if there was a prominence there I'd be able to see it.... the other extreme that all goes

[Stu]

15 minutes ago, swag72 said:

I'm sure the tilt is working fine as I can see a difference when I go from one end to the other. At one extreme there's a red hue around the edge, looking as though if there was a prominence there I'd be able to see it.... the other extreme that all goes

I agree that there seems little that you can be doing wrong, provided you are focused and have explored the range of tilt. The views you are getting just don’t tally with what I know you should be able to see. As Dave says, you should see proms and surface detail.

I assume you can’t contact the person you bought it from?

[Stu]

Although this is a pressure tuner version, there is a single frame image showing surface detail towards the end as a reference. I assume you are not seeing this? If not then there must be a problem with your scope.

http://www.stephenramsden.com/solarastrophotography/reviews/LUNT LS60THa Compressor.pdf

[swag72]

9 hours ago, Stu said:

Although this is a pressure tuner version, there is a single frame image showing surface detail towards the end as a reference. I assume you are not seeing this? If not then there must be a problem with your scope.

http://www.stephenramsden.com/solarastrophotography/reviews/LUNT LS60THa Compressor.pdf

No we're just not seeing anything at all like that - No kind of surface detail at all and certainly no prominences...... I have looked through a Lunt at Ollys and seen prominences so I do know what I should be seeing. We've had the scope for over a year now and have been disappointed from the start with it...... I just assumed that it was due to it being visual and that not really being my bag. 

Hmmm...... I'm in a bit of a quandry now then....... 

[Zakalwe]

Bear in mind that the Sun is very quiet.

Are you seeing anything like this (image from 10 minutes ago)?

 

[swag72]

No.......... not like that....... There's no detail that we can see at all on the disc and no prominences, however small........ just a general 'haze' around the edge.

The scope is at my Mum's (not here to check) but the view the other day didn't correspond to what the net said we should see.

 

[Stu]

22 minutes ago, swag72 said:

No we're just not seeing anything at all like that - No kind of surface detail at all and certainly no prominences...... I have looked through a Lunt at Ollys and seen prominences so I do know what I should be seeing. We've had the scope for over a year now and have been disappointed from the start with it...... I just assumed that it was due to it being visual and that not really being my bag. 

Hmmm...... I'm in a bit of a quandry now then....... 

Such a shame. We finally get you doing some visual and there is an issue with the scope!

So, I would say it is clear there is a problem. Is there anyone local who could check the scope out for you? Otherwise I would suggest trying to get it somewhere for a service. You should be enjoying some great views  

PS I did a quick web search and could not see any references to problems with tilt tuners, plenty with pressure tuners. Curiouser and curiouser.

[swag72]

I will give it one more go.... and then decide what to do. There's certainly no one local that I know of that does anything solar (Hell I  don't know anyone local that does anything like this at all!!) .... I assume for a service it would have to go back to the US? 

[Stu]

1 minute ago, swag72 said:

I will give it one more go.... and then decide what to do. There's certainly no one local that I know of that does anything solar (Hell I  don't know anyone local that does anything like this at all!!) .... I assume for a service it would have to go back to the US? 

Not sure but presumably yes, back to US

I wonder if FLO could assist with advice on shipping/customs etc?

[swag72]

Could it perhaps be the thing that goes on the end where the EP goes in rather than the scope? Do they ever go wrong? Is it called the blocking filter? Can it be cleaned for example?