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alacant

migration windows to linux

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Did catch this while "playing" with Grab and Go Indi style using the Scheduler doing Track/Align options  - M31 being cut in two - Lol

What do others use for viewing fits files outside Kstars ????

m31-meteor1.jpg

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4 hours ago, stash_old said:

the Scheduler

The Scheduler is under development. Please report bugs at the ekos forum. Be prepared to build from source to test the fixes of course;)

Here's an example of a scheduler bug report we're currently working on; gives an idea of the state of the project. Help by testing if you have the time.

Cheers.

Edited by alacant
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4 hours ago, stash_old said:

fits files outside Kstars

Linux: dolphin or prettier, gwenview. IMHO the best of them all, siril.

HTH

Edited by alacant
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16 hours ago, wimvb said:

Seems safer to me. It's what I do. I had trouble running the ASI 120MM guide cam and ASI174MM imaging cam together on one Rock64, so I added another one. This also gives a bit more redundancy. Should one computer fail, it's easy to start INDI on the other one, and continue the session.

I wondered how it coped with two cameras needing the same driver. Maybe not too well. I use ethernet connection to my rig as using WiFi was fine until you started transferring files when the Teamviewer or TightVNC connection became very sluggish. With ethernet it still worked fine. Having two computers would then mean running out two cat5 or installing a network switch on the scope. 

7 hours ago, kens said:

I think there is small bug in the indiwebserver. I recall patching it locally some time ago but never submitted it for inclusion in the official version. The issue is that it uses just one fifo so I patched it so there was a different fifo for each port. Starting indiwebmanager on another port doesn't help either as it too uses the same fifo. If I can find a spare moment I'll find the fix and submit it for inclusion.

Thanks kens, that's interesting. My assumption that indi-web server used a FIFO was right. ? You should certainly submit the fix as it should fix the dual imaging problem using one remote computer for those not into sending scripts/commands over terminals to achieve the same result. 

4 hours ago, stash_old said:

Personally I dont ,IMHO, see the reason for using Indi Web Manager - just another resource being used on an over crowded resource limited SCB (RPI anyway) - remembering the USB and Ethernet all share the same bus (Not Rpi3b+).

Just set up a couple of cmd scripts ( change permissions) on the remotes and use Putty to connect to remote servers and start them.

If you are really clever you could write a small script that starts at boot up and monitors the hardware (as most is USB  -output from e.g. Lsusb maybe) and starts the indiserver scripts automatically when the hardware is connected.

Yes that's true, indi-web just makes it easier for those not used to scripting and using terminals. I was thinking of ways to automate sending commands via Putty or similar to achieve what indi-web does as you suggest. If kens indi-web fix gets implemented that should help the less linux savvy people. :wink2:

Alan

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"Yes that's true, indi-web just makes it easier for those not used to scripting and using terminals. I was thinking of ways to automate sending commands via Putty or similar to achieve what indi-web does as you suggest. If kens indi-web fix gets implemented that should help the less linux savvy people. :wink2:"

Or perhaps a simple UDP Python script(running on a server) which is started from the client by just clicking on a button the same as "Start/Stop Indi" under Ekos. As its using UDP,using the same port, all Remote Python "startup" scripts on Indiservers would be started - methods are endless ? 

28 minutes ago, alacant said:

Help by testing if you have the time

No problem testing.

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1 hour ago, symmetal said:

I wondered how it coped with two cameras needing the same driver. Maybe not too well.

Works fine on a Pi, but on a Rock64 it somehow wouldn't work. It used to be an issue on the Pi a long time ago. But it's solved now. So I was kind of surprised that the issue persisted on the Rock64.

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Up Core review coming up soon - for use with Indilib

 

Edited by stash_old
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7 hours ago, stash_old said:

Up Core review coming up soon - for use with Indilib

 

Ok here's a short one:-

AAeon Core 

Pro's

1. Faster than RPI3 by a lot - 10x maybe if using DSLR images (Native or fits) load and view used. Generally everything loads a lot faster. Not unexpected.

2. USB3 helps i had an unpowered USB Hub attached via the USB3 and I could run DSLR and ZWO 120mm together from Indi/Kstars/Kos. ZWO camera smooth as silk - but see below in cons.

3. Display res very good on my 20inch Samsung TV via HDMI.

4. Its small 3/4 of the size of RPI

 

Cons

1. Documentation is appalling. Wiki very sparse and missing bits - I didn't use the Support forum other than searching for solutions!!

2. Installing Ubuntu is a nightmare IMHO (was for me) - how can you load anything via the net when the Wireless chip isn't recognised till after you have created a new kernel which you cant do because the WiFi doesn't work - "there's a whole in my bucket - etc etc". Has to use an old RTL usb from Comspec which would only load for a while then crash/freeze.    If anyone has done it on a Up Core and found a better way please let me know.

3. Watch out for power input - I was using my ATX power supply (set up as bench power stn) which should deliver 5v @ amps far greater than 4amps. However just before I asked Mouser for a RMA I tried the 12v from the same unit with a Down step brick (rated 5v 3amps) - this saved the day. So be aware its crucial.

4. The usb2 addon cable is poor it doesn't sit correctly on the board connector and comes adrift (yes I did push it home) this caused some weird things - e.g. loss of mouse/keyboard.

5. ZWO asi120mm usb2 speed - the fastest I could get it working was 13.6FPS (in either USB3 or USB2 port) not sure if the problem is the Indi driver or the board. But it ran and no jitters as with RPI3. So maybe not a con till confirmed.

6. The biggest CON - I hate this - There is no LED showing when you are powered on(or off) and the power button is rubbish. They say they didn't have room on the board for a power led - really using SMT

7. Cost - ok its faster but Mouser are charging £140 for the basic model 2/16gb inc WiFi aerial inc USB extn. I am sure the Atom based Windows Mini pc's would do the same and they are cheaper and include Sata interface. Just dont know if Ubuntu would run - some say they support Linux LOL. Pay for what you get !!!!!!

8. Don't know if its upgradable but Ubuntu is 16.04.03 - maybe others have used higher versions - i just followed AAeon instructions

Overall MHO

Well i was looking for a RPI3 alternative that can do Indi/Kstars/Camera's etc - ok it does that but the level of support doc is a big headache ( IMHO) and the cost maybe £30 too high - IMO. But it does,in indoor trials conducted so far,run Kstars/Kos/Camera's well - well it in my grab and go - we shall see!!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to have to fix that "t" key LOL

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Some valid criticisms.

On point (2) - I just downloaded Ubuntu on another machine and burnt the ISO onto a USB stick. No problems installing like that. I then used a Netgear USB stick to do the rest. I did try a RTL USB  as well but it wasn't recognised - probably too old. I also have a spare Broadcom USB that would probably work. Worst case I would have plugged in an ethernet usb dongle and connect directly to the router or connect via another computer..

On the cost side I got the 4/64Gb version for around the equivalent price to your 2/16Gb version in AUD (<$250). Is the difference due to VAT vs our GST (10%)? Certainly GBP 140 for the 2/16 sounds steep.

On point (6) it is a bit annoying. But I found it boots and connects reliably with the external antenna so it only takes a Ping to see if it is running. If not I just cycle the power to reboot it (unplug and plug in again or switch off/on at the wall). Unlike the Pi it doesn't kill the boot sector on the SD Card when you do this. To resolve this on the Pi I boot from a USB stick. What I really want is a LED that shows whether it is running or not. But the LED on on the Pi is still lit when it is shutdown but power is connected.

I'm also using Ubuntu 16.04 just like on The Pi with Ubuntu Mate. I'm a little more hopeful of 18.04 being made available on the Aaeon than on the Pi where Ubuntu Mate has gone very quiet. I do prefer the straight Ubuntu over the Mate version.

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2 hours ago, kens said:

I just downloaded Ubuntu on another machine and burnt the ISO onto a USB stick

Yep thats what I did used Rufus to burn  ISO to Sandisk Ultra which was as fast as the Aaeon Emmc. Its the fact of have to find a usable WiFi to download the new kernel (after installing on Aaeon) and other items including WiFi driver. Answer is of course AAeon to produce a basic Ubuntu with their Kernel already installed OR just detail that in the set up details. A Faff ?

2 hours ago, kens said:

Is the difference due to VAT vs our GST (10%)? Certainly GBP 140 for the 2/16 sounds steep.

To some degree but the rest is Mouser - think I shall be sending them an email to see what the excuse is as the item is only $89 US on AAeon site (ex vat,import tax which I calculate at 3.5%) so Mouser is making £40 profit. Oh well AAeon wont sell many too hot a sector IMO

3 hours ago, kens said:

On point (6) it is a bit annoying

Again a Faff - RPI power light stays on ,as you say,when the PI has closed down but the Network LED goes off and stays off. Yes there are ways around but for "mass" market appeal ?

 

3 hours ago, kens said:

To resolve this on the Pi I boot from a USB stick

Which is a one way change isn't it ?  - I think the SD will go on the next version RPI !

 

3 hours ago, kens said:

I'm a little more hopeful of 18.04 being made available on the Aaeon than on the Pi

?

If the price was right ? I think it would make a good little Indi SCB (subject to reliability !) - and a sorted the LED /power button ?  Still might try one of the "cheaper" Mini PC's that claim to run Ubuntu/Linux as they also give a Sata interface(SSD for speed ?)

Do you do Alignment on your AAeon box or run the Aaeon as a Indi server only?

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Out of curiosity, have any of  us Windows users actually set up a windows machine as a result of this thread?

The original posts said "look what you can achieve in just an hour" and I thought "great!"

Ten pages of of posts later, despite downloading an ISO I am so confused and full of trepidation that I am just more convinced than ever that Linux is a 'hobby' in itself and not a means to an end.

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19 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Ten pages of of posts later, despite downloading an ISO I am so confused and full of trepidation that I am just more convinced than ever that Linux is a 'hobby' in itself and not a means to an end.

Is learning to use a lathe any different?

James

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46 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

have any of  us Windows users actually set up a windows machine

??

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20 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Is learning to use a lathe any different?

I would have thought that was a skill, whereas it seems like Linux is purely brain cell activity (if my memory of using a lathe at school is anything to go by!).

To be honest, this thread has now gone completely over my head. All threads regarding Linux seem to be taken over by the cognoscenti and leave me standing. Perhaps that's my failing, but there must be many like me and it becomes a bar to the general uptake of Linux in general. Didn't this thread start out bemoaning this very point?

Ian

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1 minute ago, alacant said:

??

I believe Neil meant to write "Linux" instead of "Windows" second time around.

James

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13 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

To be honest, this thread has now gone completely over my head. All threads regarding Linux seem to be taken over by the cognoscenti and leave me standing. Perhaps that's my failing, but there must be many like me and it becomes a bar to the general uptake of Linux in general. Didn't this thread start out bemoaning this very point?

It really is absolutely no different the other way around.  I went straight from programming the BBC Micro as a hobby (and for a bit of cash, in fact) as a teenager to using UNIX at university in the mid 80s, to using all sorts of different flavours of UNIX for work and then to Linux in the early to mid 90s.  I have never used Windows professionally and only use it at home when there is no practical way to achieve what I want otherwise.  Installing it or using it for something complex fills me with dread because I'm so far out of my comfort zone.  When it goes wrong I have no idea where to start.  Windows is not easy.  In fact it's an absolute horrorshow as far as I'm concerned.  It's all down to what you're familiar with.

James

Edited by JamesF

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22 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

this thread has now gone completely over my head. All threads regarding Linux seem to be taken over by the cognoscenti and leave me standing

Perfectly expressed. I started the thread in a hope of encouraging what for me had been a relatively trouble-free migration. Encourage others even...

It's unfortunate that this one has gone the linux-experts-only same way. Despite efforts to bring it back to on topic e.g. here , The acronym-laden-Linux-jargon  tecchies have made certain that even those curious few on the edge will now no longer have a go:(

Rant over!

 

 

Edited by alacant
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6 minutes ago, JamesF said:

When it goes wrong I have no idea where to start.

The big difference being that you have other windows users who will come by and fix it for you, using terms which you can understand at your level. Failing that, take it into any computer shop and they'll fix it for you. If you have a problem with Linux, you're on your own.

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There are some really good books on learning to use a lathe. Genuine guides for beginners that get you started.  I taught myself in my sixties - at least to a level that gave me enough skills for my own needs. I have never seen any books that could do that with Linux.

Regards, Hugh

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1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

confused and full of trepidation

C'mon Neil. If anyone is gonna do it, it's you. You're the closest yet!

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15 minutes ago, hughgilhespie said:

. I have never seen any books that could do that with Linux.

Neither have I. I think the only way into Linux is to set yourself a task. One such task could be installing Linux. Another could be installing Linux and indi and getting it to move your mount.

Several months later, you will have faced enough of the uphill battle and gained enough know how and jargon to be able to go to the indilib forum, ask for help and -more importantly- be able to understand the replies.

Or, use windows or -the easiest way into ap- get a stellarmate and take your first shot under indi in a few minutes...

Edited by alacant

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OK, Windows sucks! Now then, lets have a go at Linux. Let's see I think I'll try.....................

Elementary OS, Linux Mint, Arch Linux, Ubuntu, Tails, CentOS 7, Ubuntu Studio, Open SUSE, Fedora, Bodhi Linux, Mageia, Kubuntu, Mandriva, Deepin, Budgie, Ubuntu Mate, Sabayon Linux, Crunch Bang Linux, BackBox, SolydXK, NixOS, KaOS, Pinguy OS, Peppermint Linus OS, Ubuntu Kylin, AV Linux, Scientific Linux, Alpine Linux, aptosid, Russian Fedora Remix, Kantofix, Lunar Linux, Void Linux, Grml, Caldera Open Linux, Parsix, TurnKey Linux, LliureX, Yggdrasil Linux, VyOS, Debian Pure Blend

I got bored at this point.

Is it really any wonder that even people that would like to try Linux give up!

 

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3 minutes ago, alacant said:

I think the only way into Linux is to set yourself a task. One such task could be installing indi and getting it to move your mount.

Or in my case, to move a little piston up and down......................

 

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2 hours ago, stash_old said:

Do you do Alignment on your AAeon box or run the Aaeon as a Indi server only?

I'm running it as an Indi server and PHD2 server. For me the purpose of using these SBC's is as a form of embedded computer. So its not a Linux versus Windows question. I treat the Linux device as just a part of my telescope. I switch it on and connect to it via KStars/Ekos running on Windows like I would the camera or mount. If anythings acts up I switch it off and switch it on again like any other device.

Linux is ideal for this use and dominates embedded systems due its reliability and small footprint. So far the Aaeon works well and boots up quickly and reliably even when shut down very ungracefully. The RPi is a bit flakey when it is not shut down gracefully. BTW moving the RPi to boot from USB is not one way. Just a small change in one file on the SD card. You still need the SD card but the Boot sector is on the USB stick.

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