migration windows to linux

[JamesF]

1 hour ago, stash_old said:

Fedora 28

I used to use Fedora before I moved to Ubuntu and then to Mint.  My only gripe with it for astro use would be that the fast turnover of releases mean that no single release is supported for very long.  Personally I'd probably be looking for something with more long-term stability.  If you don't mind upgrading regularly if you want to ensure you're running a supported release, or just don't care about running a supported release then that's perhaps not an issue.

James

[stash_old]

2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

I used to use Fedora before I moved to Ubuntu and then to Mint.  My only gripe with it for astro use would be that the fast turnover of releases mean that no single release is supported for very long.  Personally I'd probably be looking for something with more long-term stability.  If you don't mind upgrading regularly if you want to ensure you're running a supported release, or just don't care about running a supported release then that's perhaps not an issue.

James

For me once I get a working set up(Windows,Linux,IBM OS,Dec LOL) there will  a complete lock down but fair comment - but it was really for people wary of setting up a Linux "trial" from Windows PC - it doesn't get much more simple using the Fedora Media program- for the linux side anyway ?

[JamesF]

Mostly for fun I am currently attempting to install Lubuntu 18.04 (Ubuntu with the LXDE desktop) on an Atom-based netbook that has an 8GB SSD.  Unfortunately it's some weird SSD interface that may well pre-date SATA, otherwise I'd get a bigger disk.  I did have Mint 17 on the machine previously, but later releases want more disk space than I have.

James

[JamesF]

3 hours ago, stash_old said:

For me once I get a working set up(Windows,Linux,IBM OS,Dec LOL)

Oooh, DEC.  My wife used to work for DEC in the dim and distant past.  We had some of their Alpha-based kit to play with at one point.  Now merely a footnote in the history of IT.  How the mighty are fallen.

James

[stash_old]

12 hours ago, JamesF said:

Oooh, DEC.  My wife used to work for DEC in the dim and distant past.  We had some of their Alpha-based kit to play with at one point.  Now merely a footnote in the history of IT.  How the mighty are fallen.

James

I said the other when I couldn't remember the other ATM maker - it was NCR - Used Unix/Sco on their "Towers" - another one gone - nothing stands still ?

[stash_old]

12 hours ago, JamesF said:

Mostly for fun I am currently attempting to install Lubuntu 18.04 (Ubuntu with the LXDE desktop) on an Atom-based netbook that has an 8GB SSD.  Unfortunately it's some weird SSD interface that may well pre-date SATA, otherwise I'd get a bigger disk.  I did have Mint 17 on the machine previously, but later releases want more disk space than I have.

James

Which Atom processor James - Had been looking at these as an alternative.

I have had a £25 Android TV box which has worked for 2 yrs,runs Syn Scan Pro and I can RDP to other machines - so maybe some of he Atom based m/c's will work and all the media about Linux doesn't work (easily without bios installs) are over inflated.

Did you have install a new Bios/UEFI ?

[kens]

I'm using the AAEON-UP CORE which is based on the Atom x5-Z8350 with 64Gb eMMC and installed Ubuntu 16.04 on it. I chose this one to take over from my RPi3 as it has a USB3 port and the x86 architecture supports one of my cameras that has no ARM driver.  Given that the price includes the eMMC it is quite reasonable. Plus it can take (indeed requires) an external Wifi antenna so no need to hack the board like with the RPi3. If you get one I recommend also ordering the Wifi antenna and if you also want a couple of USB2 ports order the adapter cable.

 

[stash_old]

1 hour ago, kens said:

I'm using the AAEON-UP CORE which is based on the Atom x5-Z8350 with 64Gb eMMC and installed Ubuntu 16.04 on it. I chose this one to take over from my RPi3 as it has a USB3 port and the x86 architecture supports one of my cameras that has no ARM driver.  Given that the price includes the eMMC it is quite reasonable. Plus it can take (indeed requires) an external Wifi antenna so no need to hack the board like with the RPi3. If you get one I recommend also ordering the Wifi antenna and if you also want a couple of USB2 ports order the adapter cable.

 

Hi Ken ,

Looks interesting and other models too - including sata interface . Mouser is the "nearest" LOL outlet in UK I could find

questions

1. Did you install the Ubunto or did it come on the Emmc ?

2. Have you had much dealings with support ?

3. On the Forum I could only find 1 topic and that was a complaint that it ran very very slow and was asking for help but had no replies - Topic dec 2017 - no replies. Have you used the Forum much ??

4. It says it users 5v @ 4amp so does it run hot ?????

Would be interested in any timings for your camera'a - FPS etc 

Many thanks for the Info

Edited August 19, 2018 by stash_old

[JamesF]

4 hours ago, stash_old said:

Which Atom processor James - Had been looking at these as an alternative.

I have had a £25 Android TV box which has worked for 2 yrs,runs Syn Scan Pro and I can RDP to other machines - so maybe some of he Atom based m/c's will work and all the media about Linux doesn't work (easily without bios installs) are over inflated.

Did you have install a new Bios/UEFI ?

It's an N270 @ 1.6GHz apparently.  The machine is one of the bottom end (I think) Aspire One models.  My other two run Mint/XFCE, but they have a little more grunt (and replaceable disks).

James

[kens]

6 hours ago, stash_old said:

Hi Ken ,

Looks interesting and other models too - including sata interface . Mouser is the "nearest" LOL outlet in UK I could find

questions

1. Did you install the Ubunto or did it come on the Emmc ?

2. Have you had much dealings with support ?

3. On the Forum I could only find 1 topic and that was a complaint that it ran very very slow and was asking for help but had no replies - Topic dec 2017 - no replies. Have you used the Forum much ??

4. It says it users 5v @ 4amp so does it run hot ?????

Would be interested in any timings for your camera'a - FPS etc 

Many thanks for the Info

I got mine from Mouser. Delivery was fast. I just did a normal Ubuntu install (16.04 - kernel for 18.04 is due out September) then followed the instructions to enable the Wifi and bluetooth. The only difficulty came because I did not have the external antenna so I had to sit it right next to the router to get online.

So far I've had no need to use support although I tend to be self-sufficient as I know how to switch things on and off  I've only checked the forum to see when 18.04 will be supported - that's the community forum at https://forum.up-community.org/

5v at 4A is only 20W so it runs warm rather than hot and I power it though a UBEC 12V to 5V reducer. My only gripe there is that the only power connection is the barrel socket - on the Pi I can use the GPIO pins which is easier to rig up in a case.

Speed wise I tested it with the ASI1600 saving the files only on the server. The time to save a 32Mb file was a blink of the eye. Downloading over the network was very slow but I haven't yet tried it with compression since that would only be to preview and focus.

 

[symmetal]

With many people singing the praises of Kstars/Ekos, I've been dabbling with Linux again. Many years ago I had tinkered with Red-Hat Linux so have some knowledge. ?

 Does anyone know of the easiest way to do dual scope imaging with Ekos and INDI. The latest windows version of Kstars works fine (many posts recommended running Kstars in a linux VM on Windows). I installed INDI on a Pi3 running Ubuntu Mate and it all communicates fine using the indi-web Manager on the Pi. Not having USB3 on the Pi I installed Ubuntu Mate on a cheap Mini-PC I had lying around (Intel Atom, 2GB ram, 32GB SSD) as it had USB3, and it works well apart from not detecting the WiFi hardware.

For dual imaging I assume two instances of Kstars have to run on the Windows PC. It would be nice if you could run 2 Ekos sessions with 1 Kstars but it seems not.

On the scope mini PC, could the INDI server communicate with 2 Kstars/Ekos sessions at the same time so that you have 2 scopes and 2 focusers communicating through INDI. I assume not as searching the web the two scope solution seems to be a 2 Pi setup with the second Pi 'chained' to the first so all communication is via the 1st Pi.

Another thought is would it be possible for the scope PC to run 2 separate INDI servers with one server linked to each Kstars/Ekos session.

I could have the Pi 'chained' to the Mini-PC at the scope but thought there would be a more elegant solution using just one computer.

Currently I have a more powerful Windows 10 mini-PC at the scope running two instances of SG-Pro, PHD2 and CdC  and that works well. The Mini-PC, USB3 hub,  dual focus controllers, dew heaters etc are all in a box attached to the dual scopes to minimize long, flexing cables so space/weight is at a premium. ?

Alan

 

[wimvb]

In essence with a dual rig, you have two cameras, two focusers, (two wheels), but only one mount. So you could start one server with all these drivers. The problem is on the client side. In Ekos you can only have one imaging session going. You need two instances of Ekos, one for each camera.

I think that I would set up two completely independent RPi's, and two independent Ekos sessions. One RPi with cameras etc and mount. The other without mount. Then two clients, one for each server.

Set up a sequence on each client. Then start both sequences. Captures should only be seconds apart. If you use dithering, add a delay. Have exposure lengths the same on both systems.

[symmetal]

Thanks Wim, your method would certainly work. Mine aren't the same scopes and cameras. One's widefield with an ASI1600 while the other is narrower with an Atik One. The ASI needs the USB3 which the Pi doesn't have hence the mini PC. I thought it could be possible either to have both Ekos clients use the same INDI server, or to run two INDI servers on the same PC to save the extra RPi.

Dithering is a bit messy. I just set the Atik sequence to dither and accept that the ASI with shorter exposures will have to scrap 25% of the images unless I'm monitoring it and set the Atik to pause after each image and continue when the ASI has finished an image where I pause that until dithering is done. I'd have thought that synchronizing the dithering on dual rigs shouldn't be too difficult to achieve automatically but it seems to be.

Alan

Edited August 23, 2018 by symmetal

[stash_old]

Ask on the IndiLib forum !!!

[kens]

If you are using Indiwebmanager you can set the port that Indiserver runs on. By default its 7624. Pretty sure that is saved in the indiwebmanager profile.  So you could start one server on port 7624 and another on 7625. In Ekos you can nominate which server port you connect to. Worst case you could start each server manually with the -p <port> parameter

[wimvb]

The problem isn't so much the server/client as it is the hardware connections. Suppose you have 2 mounts/scopes with 2 focusers and 2 cameras. In essence 2 completely independent systems. It wouldn't make sense to control these from one server and one client. It would just be messy. The easiest solution would be with each system its own server and client. The 2 clients could run on the same windows/linux computer. But the server has direct hardware connections, and connecting everything to the same box is just asking for trouble, imo.

Otoh, if you have a dual rig with one mount and 2 scopes and cameras, one camera would be master (used for pointing and maybe oag) and the other slave. You could then probably use one server and two clients. Client A has the mount, guiding and one camera. The other client (B) just a camera (and focuser). In Ekos, you can select the camera in the sequencer. You just need to time exposures on both such that no exposures on B are unnecessarily lost due to dithering. The exposures can be of different length, but need to be in phase. The shorter exposure camera would need wait times in order to stay in phase. Or you would accept lost exposures. At the moment there's no functionality in Ekos for two cameras and imaging sequences in one client, afaIk. I don't know if it's possible to add this functionality through either python or scripting. As mentioned before: ask Jasem on the INDI forum.

[symmetal]

Thanks for all your suggestions. As you say it's best to ask on the INDI forum. ?

Alan

[kirkster501]

Use Linux at work on our servers.  But Windows and OSX (yeah I know is Linux) at home.  Never need to touch linux on the MAC unless you want to get deep and dirty.  Speaking frankly, I find linux a complete PITA to use.  It may be "free" but not my cup of tea personally.

We are all different.

[symmetal]

I've been having a play and you can have two indiservers running at the same time on one machine, each connected to different equipment (using different ports for the two servers) and have two sessions of Kstars/Ekos running on the Windows PC each one connected to a different indiserver. Woohoo!!

However, you can't use indi-web to start the servers. Only one instance of indi-web server seems to be allowed to be run. If you start another with different ports it attempts to kill the first one, fails, and doesn't start. So using indi-web only one indiserver can be remotely controlled from Ekos.

Starting the two indiservers directly on the remote machine using ssh from Windows, with the drivers required listed as arguments to the launch command (and a different port number) you can then connect and disconnect from Ekos (with indi-web un-ticked). Also if the hardware isn't connected when the server is started will probably lead to problems. 

Changing the equipment used on the fly is a bit more difficult though. A crude way is to kill the indiserver process and restart with new arguments. The more elegant way is setting up a FIFO and pass the location of the FIFO list to the indiserver on startup and send text commands to the FIFO to add or remove specific INDI drivers as required. Scripts could be set up to do this. I imagine this is what indi-web does for you.

There are probably easier ways but this was my first attempt. ?

Or,....... use a second RPi. ?

I'll keep playing, but my current setup of everything running on the remote Windows PC seems much simpler. Being able to change connected equipment at will is very handy. INDI isn't very plug-and-play.

Alan

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by symmetal

[wimvb]

29 minutes ago, symmetal said:

Or,....... use a second RPi.

Seems safer to me. It's what I do. I had trouble running the ASI 120MM guide cam and ASI174MM imaging cam together on one Rock64, so I added another one. This also gives a bit more redundancy. Should one computer fail, it's easy to start INDI on the other one, and continue the session.

[kens]

9 hours ago, symmetal said:

I've been having a play and you can have two indiservers running at the same time on one machine, each connected to different equipment (using different ports for the two servers) and have two sessions of Kstars/Ekos running on the Windows PC each one connected to a different indiserver. Woohoo!!

However, you can't use indi-web to start the servers. Only one instance of indi-web server seems to be allowed to be run. If you start another with different ports it attempts to kill the first one, fails, and doesn't start. So using indi-web only one indiserver can be remotely controlled from Ekos.

Starting the two indiservers directly on the remote machine using ssh from Windows, with the drivers required listed as arguments to the launch command (and a different port number) you can then connect and disconnect from Ekos (with indi-web un-ticked). Also if the hardware isn't connected when the server is started will probably lead to problems. 

Changing the equipment used on the fly is a bit more difficult though. A crude way is to kill the indiserver process and restart with new arguments. The more elegant way is setting up a FIFO and pass the location of the FIFO list to the indiserver on startup and send text commands to the FIFO to add or remove specific INDI drivers as required. Scripts could be set up to do this. I imagine this is what indi-web does for you.

There are probably easier ways but this was my first attempt. ?

Or,....... use a second RPi. ?

I'll keep playing, but my current setup of everything running on the remote Windows PC seems much simpler. Being able to change connected equipment at will is very handy. INDI isn't very plug-and-play.

Alan

 

I think there is small bug in the indiwebserver. I recall patching it locally some time ago but never submitted it for inclusion in the official version. The issue is that it uses just one fifo so I patched it so there was a different fifo for each port. Starting indiwebmanager on another port doesn't help either as it too uses the same fifo. If I can find a spare moment I'll find the fix and submit it for inclusion.

[Davey-T]

Ordered a 500gb ssd to have a bash,  a quick query is there a limit to the amount of memory that Linux can access ?

Dave

[JamesF]

3 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Ordered a 500gb ssd to have a bash,  a quick query is there a limit to the amount of memory that Linux can access ?

Dave

There is a limit, but it's perhaps unlikely that a home user would reach it.

James

[alacant]

38 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

amount of memory that Linux can access

Ubuntu 18.04 with 64bit can access 1024Gb -it says here-. That should speed up your stacking!

[stash_old]

Personally I dont ,IMHO, see the reason for using Indi Web Manager - just another resource being used on an over crowded resource limited SCB (RPI anyway) - remembering the USB and Ethernet all share the same bus (Not Rpi3b+).

Just set up a couple of cmd scripts ( change permissions) on the remotes and use Putty to connect to remote servers and start them.

If you are really clever you could write a small script that starts at boot up and monitors the hardware (as most is USB  -output from e.g. Lsusb maybe) and starts the indiserver scripts automatically when the hardware is connected.

Has anyone had problems,when running remote indiserver, with erratic GoTo's on long slews - not sure if its a bug or WiFi problems on RPI ?

Plus I find the Scheduler isn't 100% it keeps saying capturing at the end of the job (seq or run 1 time) when the job has finished (Camera Module says image recvd and complete). Might be me but cant see anything obvious.

Its a bit infuriating as its so close to stand alone,automated Astro imaging - still early days ?