migration windows to linux

[JamesF]

Ah, well, perhaps it's true then.  No-one who doesn't already use Linux can learn to use Linux because it's just too hard.

James

[Davey-T]

3 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Ah, well, perhaps it's true then.  No-one who doesn't already use Linux can learn to use Linux because it's just too hard.

James

Waiting on SSD delivery then I'm going to jump in with both feet and eyes closed 

Dave

PS: My 10Micron has built in Linux not sure if that will be any help.

[Dr_Ju_ju]

James. I'm a 'supposed' Windows specialist on OS\SCCM\Exchange\SQL etc. but I try to use Linux where I can, as I find it more suited for process work, so doesn't have the added baggage, unlike Microsoft products...

I've installed everything on a Rock64 with  Ubuntu Mate 16.04 & that was a doddle, it even works ok on a bench, with all equipment attached.

I'm currently trying to get everything working reliably on a RockPro64, with Ubuntu Mate 18.04.

To say the install was a faff is an understatement, as the support is handled by one guy Ayufan, while he does a reasonable job, not all the hardware works reliably e.g. NVMe disks (they work ok on a minimal install, but on a GUI the system freezes on logon ??) and as there have been soo many internal changes to the way 18.04 behaves compared to earlier versions e.g. now uses netplan for network configuration.  

But I'm getting there....

[wimvb]

57 minutes ago, hughgilhespie said:

OK, Windows sucks! Now then, lets have a go at Linux. Let's see I think I'll try.....................

Elementary OS, Linux Mint, Arch Linux, Ubuntu, Tails, CentOS 7, Ubuntu Studio, Open SUSE, Fedora, Bodhi Linux, Mageia, Kubuntu, Mandriva, Deepin, Budgie, Ubuntu Mate, Sabayon Linux, Crunch Bang Linux, BackBox, SolydXK, NixOS, KaOS, Pinguy OS, Peppermint Linus OS, Ubuntu Kylin, AV Linux, Scientific Linux, Alpine Linux, aptosid, Russian Fedora Remix, Kantofix, Lunar Linux, Void Linux, Grml, Caldera Open Linux, Parsix, TurnKey Linux, LliureX, Yggdrasil Linux, VyOS, Debian Pure Blend

I got bored at this point.

Is it really any wonder that even people that would like to try Linux give up!

 

Only two are of interest for astro on a Raspberry Pi: Debian if you want to follow the RPi tutorials, or Ubuntu Mate, which I find easier with Kstars.

But as has been said before, if you want INDI without the hassle, StellarMate or ASIAIR should be Plug and Play.

[alacant]

5 hours ago, hughgilhespie said:

move a little piston up and down

LOL. Good aim.  You should be able to easily write an indi module to do that;) Start by looking at the source for indi-eqmod. Inspiration indeed!

Edited August 26, 2018 by alacant

[alacant]

1 hour ago, Davey-T said:

10Micron has built in Linux

And an indi module

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, JamesF said:

Is learning to use a lathe any different?

James

No, I'd be equally disheartened if I was told 'you can learn  to use a lathe in an hour' and then was faced by a ten-page discussion of parting off.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Stub Mandrel
Disheartened seems a better fit than disappointed

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, alacant said:

Several months later, you will have faced enough of the uphill battle and gained enough know how and jargon to be able to go to the indilib forum, ask for help and -more importantly- be able to understand the replies.

Why do I suspect that 's like asking about QGIS on Stackexchange.

Any N00B who dares ask a  question gets the response 'go and read twelve pages on how to ask questions properly, collect full data on your system including a detailed family tree going back at least fourteen generations and come back when you've solved your problem'...

[Stub Mandrel]

46 minutes ago, wimvb said:

Only two are of interest for astro on a Raspberry Pi: Debian if you want to follow the RPi tutorials, or Ubuntu Mate, which I find easier with Kstars.

But as has been said before, if you want INDI without the hassle, StellarMate or ASIAIR should be Plug and Play.

See this is where I get lost.

I am sure this reply is meant to be helpful. It clearly is more relevant to the point of this thread (encouraging newcomers to use linux for astro).

I know Debian and Ubuntu are rival versions of Linux. But is Ubuntu Mate a version of Ubuntu or something that works with it?). I have guessed that Kstars is a bit like stellarium or ascom, or equmod... and so is INDI. But do I need one or both?

And what are Stellarmate and ASIAIR? Are they versions of Linux? Are they programs? Do they include INDI or Kstars? Or both?

Why do Linux users assume that you know what something is just by naming it?

Yes I could use the power of google (sorry I suppose Linux users don't use Google) but I would have to search about seven things to properly understand that one post.

Many of the posts on this thread I can't even follow whether some of the things being talked about are hardware or software. It's impossible to guess if some are operating systems, programs or drivers from the context. Life's too short to look it all up.

 

At the beginning this thread encouraged me to look at setting up a linux laptop for astronomy. In the end all it has done is further entrench all my prejudices against Linux because those 'in the know' couldn't resist the temptation to start splitting hairs. If someone starts a thread on choosing a beginners telescope, you don't start arguing the toss between different types of ED glass - do you?

 

Plug and Play to me means I can download something, run it, go through a setupwizard, and then start using it.

 

If there is a way of doing this PLEASE point me at it using words I understand.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Stub Mandrel

[JamesF]

8 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

See this is where I get lost.

I am sure this reply is meant to be helpful. It clearly is more relevant to the point of this thread (encouraging newcomers to use linux for astro).

I know Debian and Ubuntu are rival versions of Linux. But is Ubuntu Mate a version of Ubuntu or something that works with it?). I have guessed that Kstars is a bit like stellarium or ascom, or equmod... and so is INDI. But do I need one or both?

And what are Stellarmate and ASIAIR? Are they versions of Linux? Are they programs? Do they include INDI or Kstars? Or both?

To describe them as "rivals" may be a bit strong.  Ubuntu is more like a derivative of Debian.  The people who created Debian made a number of, well, philosophical decisions about how they wanted it to work that other people (who like much of what Debian had done) felt made it more difficult to use, so they took most of the Debian system, changed those things they didn't like and released it as Ubuntu.

MATE is perhaps best described as a user interface manager.  In the general case Linux applications don't have much control over how windows are placed on the screen, where the menus and window "decorations" appear and suchlike.  That's delegated to a separate system which controls the detail of much of the user interface.  MATE is one such system, but there are quite a few others that people have produced out of desire for something different, for fun, or out of necessity.  MATE is relatively resource-hungry in terms of memory and CPU cycles for example, but there's an alternative called XFCE that is less so, meaning that if you have a less powerful machine you can still run all the same applications by using XFCE rather than MATE.  When things get quite tight there's another called LXDE that attempts to minimise the resources it requires to run.

This kind of approach is a huge strength of open source software, in that you're not constrained in how you can use the product by what the vendor saw fit to allow you to do, but also a weakness when it comes to the type of user who just wants to click buttons and have things work.

ASiair is here.  I guess in simple terms you might describe it as "all the above software, targeted at ZWO devices, packaged into a consumer grade product", with all the pros and cons that you get with consumer products.  My understanding is that Stellarmate is similar though I've not looked at it in detail.

James

[Stub Mandrel]

Oh dear

4 minutes ago, JamesF said:

MATE is perhaps best described as a user interface manager.  In the general case Linux applications don't have much control over how windows are placed on the screen, where the menus and window "decorations" appear and suchlike.  That's delegated to a separate system which controls the detail of much of the user interface.  MATE is one such system, but there are quite a few others that people have produced out of desire for something different, for fun, or out of necessity.  MATE is relatively resource-hungry in terms of memory and CPU cycles for example, but there's an alternative called XFCE that is less so, meaning that if you have a less powerful machine you can still run all the same applications by using XFCE rather than MATE.  When things get quite tight there's another called LXDE that attempts to minimise the resources it requires to run.

Oh dear...

I have just tried to burn an Iso of Astronomy Linux onto a USB key. If only because I really am not going to do another 3.4GB download on my 2.8MB/s narrowband.

The first site with an ISO handler  caused my ISP to warn me it was virus-ridden.

The second utility started promisingly - then told me I had to download two furtehr files in order to work with what I had, without telling me where to find the two files in question or what to do with them...

Can I be ars^h^h^hbothered to try a third time?

 

[JamesF]

Does Windows really not come with a built-in utility to make bootable USB sticks?  I'm sure it can make bootable DVDs and CDs, perhaps even bootable floppies if it still has support for them.  Why not bootable USB sticks?

James

[Stub Mandrel]

Oh well.

The bootable USB key wouldn't boot.

I tried re-writing the ISO and now I have a dead 16 gig USB key.

Thank you Linux, and goodnight...

[JamesF]

So it's Linux's fault that Windows can't properly burn a USB stick?

If you can get Linux to boot then you can probably reformat the stick so it will work again

James

[pete_l]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

At the beginning this thread encouraged me to look at setting up a linux laptop for astronomy. In the end all it has done is further entrench all my prejudices against Linux

Yes, the Linux community is its own worst enemy. The good news is that STELLARMATE is a completely packaged hardware and software product. You just buy the box from some outfit in the USA and once it is delivered and you've paid all the excess VAT and import taxes, it is a case of following the instructions.

Provided you can decode the jargon that is inherent therein.
I've been "doing" software for nigh-on 40 years now, professionally. I have been doing various things with Unix (the precursor to Linux) since the early 1980s. Yet I still have difficulty wading through the publicity material for many products. And that is not down to my lack of technical skills.

You would think it would be the simplest thing in the world for every new tech. product to have an introductory line on the home page of their website, right at the top, along the lines of X is a piece of software that runs on .... and is used to .....    But in their enthusiasm or inexperience hardly any amateur entrepreneurs ever think of doing this. It often takes several minutes for the casual visitor to work out whether (as in this case) the "product" is hardware, software, a combination of both or whatever.

All I can say is: take whichever route is easiest.

[JamesF]

"Amateur entrepreneur"?  Surely they're not doing it to be an amateur

James

[Stub Mandrel]

22 minutes ago, JamesF said:

So it's Linux's fault that Windows can't properly burn a USB stick?

If you can get Linux to boot then you can probably reformat the stick so it will work again

James

Not Windows fault.  It appeared to burn it fine, all the files looked like they were there, it just wouldn't boot.

I thought it might be corrupt but instead of the utility re-writing the key, it fubared it. It doesn't even show on disk manager as an unpartitioned drive ?

 

<UPDATE>

Saved by Windows. The problem was the single partition had become 0GB in size. The drive was 'there' but had size zero and wouldn't read, check, repair, format or allow me to open a file a manager window for it. What I had to do was use Disk manager to create a new fullsize partition. The problem was that it was not visible to Windows Disk Manager as a disk drive. I found it in disk manager, and had to 'populate' its statistics which 'found' the unused 14.83GB or whatever. This then allowed Disk manager to see the unpartitioned space and I could partition it. Side effect is that the drive now is now letter H instead of G, but I can live with that!

Now if it had been a floppy for my BBC Micro I could have used the sector editor I wrote to manually repair it ?

Edited August 26, 2018 by Stub Mandrel

[Dr_Ju_ju]

get to learn to use & love diskpart.exe …..

[alacant]

So, let's see. Has anyone managed to migrate from Windows to Linux -since June 27th.- yet?

At the end of June, I followed this guide. That was my first step.

Could someone have a go, tell me where they failed and what needs to be added to the guide?

Note: Please give yourself a fighting chance. Use a proper laptop, not a cheap expert embedded system that needs expert knowledge to install. This task is difficult enough on adequate hardware, let alone having to fight that too!

[JamesF]

Ubuntu's tutorial on writing USB sticks on Windows appears to be here:

https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-windows#0

I'd assume that works for any distribution downloaded as an ISO.

James

[Stub Mandrel]

Well I've had another go.

The computer says it's not a bootable disk. Does this look right (doesn't quite look right to me):

[alacant]

2 hours ago, pete_l said:

X is a piece of software that runs on .... and is used to ..... 

Hey, you're not gonna believe this:

Quote

 

StellarMate is the Next Generation Internet-of-Things Astrophotography gadget! The principle behind StellarMate is simple:

Connect your equipment (Mount, DSLR/CCD, Focuser, Filter Wheel..etc) to StellarMate via USB/Bluetooth or Network.
Connect to StellarMate from either your Mobile, Tablet, or Laptop/Desktop Computer.
Start controlling your observatory and imaging from any major platform.

 

Taken from here.

It looks like this:

It runs indi, but you'd never nor need to know. You connect your mount and camera(s) using your existing cables and velcro it to your telescope. Switch on and connect to it using your phone, tablet, Linux or dare I say it, Windows computer. Point and click until you understand it.

[JamesF]

3 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Well I've had another go.

The computer says it's not a bootable disk. Does this look right (doesn't quite look right to me):

That's pretty much what I'd expect.  At what point does the computer claim that it isn't bootable?

James

[Stub Mandrel]

2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Ubuntu's tutorial on writing USB sticks on Windows appears to be here:

https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-windows#0

I'd assume that works for any distribution downloaded as an ISO.

James

Ha. False News.

Looks like that's an old version of Rufus so the options are completely different:

2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

That's pretty much what I'd expect.  At what point does the computer claim that it isn't bootable? 

James

Er... when it tries to boot from the USB key?

[Stub Mandrel]

Trying to write it using Rufus instead.