Thinking of buying a better telescope for looking at moon's craters and I need suggestions

[Peter Drew]

Also please don't get too fixated on high power potential. The 50x the aperture holds good for small telescopes, once you reach 250x the seeing conditions will make further magnification a very seldom possibility. 20" telescopes would rarely use 1000x.

[John]

33 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

Also please don't get too fixated on high power potential. The 50x the aperture holds good for small telescopes, once you reach 250x the seeing conditions will make further magnification a very seldom possibility. 20" telescopes would rarely use 1000x.

I agree 100% with this. Much observing through telescopes is done at low to medium magnifications.

On the servicing issue, this was a thought running through my head when I suggested a 150mm F/8 dobsonian. Very, very simple scope with no electronics and great optical performance

 

[cv01jw]

I will add a further recommendation for a Mak - I have a Bresser 127 and it is fantastic looking at the Moon and planets.  I would also concur with the comments about chasing magnification - although I can get silly magnifications with my scope, the best views are normally with my 12mm EP at a mag of around x160.

To chip in on the mount issue - I have two mounts.  One is a manual EQ2 and the other is a GoTo Skywatcher Star Discovery.  If I were starting again, I would have neither and would instead opt for a good manual Alt Az.

Finally, looking at the photos you posted on the Amazon review it appears that your father observes from a balcony.  I would question buying a computerised mount as, given the limited view and the light pollution levels, your father may have problems finding suitable stars to align the mount to.  Although I can use my GoTo mount manually without alignment it is really not very good at it, hence the suggestion of a manual mount.

[cjdawson]

Hi I'm probably too late to jump into this conversation, so I'll keep it short.  If you haven't ordered the scope.   I'd highly recommend an 8" scope with a 2000mm focal length (I've got a Meade LX-90 that I've had for 20 years.  The views on the moon are so good that honestly, I've been taking them for granted a bit too much.  Your dad will be in heaven with something of that size.   The other thing to be aware of it's the f/ratio.  my Lx-90 is an F/10 scope, so for lunar and planets, that's fairly fast optics.  This helps to give a bright contrasty view.  There are times when I'd need to add a ND (Moon filter) to dim the surface down when it's so bright that it actually uncomfortable to look at!

 

The general thing is that big, long focal lengths are good for the moon and planets.  The wider the apeture of the scope the more contrast that you will get from the scope, and the brighter the image, and the more powerful eyepiece that you can use.

[Ricochet]

2 hours ago, cv01jw said:

looking at the photos you posted on the Amazon review it appears that your father observes from a balcony

Good spot, I hadn't looked at the review to see the photos. With that wall a tripod mounted scope is definitely the way to go. 

[erseavetir]

Thank you guys! I plan to read everything being said on both forums, again and again, to better understand my options, and then I'll explain everything to my father on the weekend when we are both free and then we'll go on from there. In the meanwhile, please feel free to let me know anything else that you think would be good for me to know about. I am a super noob so your comments are the only things I'll base my decision on and hopefully at the end, my father will be amazed with what he is seeing when he is looking at moon's craters with his new telescope! I just hope he won't have a heart attack or anything when he is basically on the moon Thank you guys! ❤️ 

[erseavetir]

Oh I didn't realize there was a second page of comments here, I just read them. As far as I understood, any power above 250x will not be good enough for my father's needs when it comes to looking at moon's craters which means I am now hopefully healed from my aperture fiver  

Btw, yes my family lives at the last floor in our apartment and we are lucky to have a balcony which is where my father goes to every night to look at the moon (when it's viewable and it's not raining). He keeps the telescope near balcony where the temperature is not that different from outside and he'd easily be able to put the telescope outside, go watch his BS Turkish news shows about politic debates that he loves to watch every night, and then he can use the telescope once it's ready.

Some of you may find this interesting but we had the biggest hailstorm in Istanbul when I was visiting my family last year and I recorded it on video and put it up on youtube and you can see our balcony in that short video as well (Feel free to activate the Closed Captions as I've added the proper subtitles to it if you want to understand what we were saying):

And these are the pictures of my father checking out the moon the first day we got the telescope. These were the pictures I shared on Amazon but for those who didn't see that, here are they. My father didn't even realize I was taking these pics as he was in shock how much better the moon looked compared to his old "BRESSER TRAVEL 20-60X60 SPOTTING SCOPE" that our cat knocked out from that balcony 8 floors down, that was a very sad day for my father but then I shortly got him this Bresser telescope and he couldn't leave his eyes from the moon for a long time and all he was saying was "Oh my goodness, oh my goodness Berkay (My name), I am on the moon!"  and I believe the next day when we both found the saturn, we were both shocked to see the rings of saturn, it was a beatuful experience, I will never forget these memories with my father, I am glad I got to share those moments with him... 

So please let me know if this information changes everything and if I should choose only a specific kind of telescope over some other kind of telescope like cv01jw mentioned. Should I only consider the "tripod mounted scope" options from now on? And by " tripod mounted scope", do you guys mean refractor telescopes only?

[happy-kat]

For observing on a balcony and from a seated position then either refractor or sct/mak as the eyepiece is at the bottom of the telescope. A tripod also would be good from a seated piston and I prefer alt az style tripods.

[25585]

From a balcony, a SMT or SCT or refractor is best. 

For seated viewing, a longish refractor, so your father is not too close to his tripod seems good ergonomically. So the Sky Watcher ED PRO range is good. A 100mm will better an 80 without the weight of a 120. Orion & Celestron equivalents use the same lenses I expect. 

More upmarket are Vixen ED refractors, with higher pricing. 

[Louis D]

This 127 Mak alt-az setup might be another good option for your dad:

[cv01jw]

Louis, that looks great and would fit all of his criteria well.

[erseavetir]

Louis, you are the man! Thank you so much for letting me know about that site! On the other forum, the user Freezout also suggested me that telescope before but he referenced this site:
https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/skywatcher-maksutov-telescope-mc-127-1500-skymax-127-az-5/p,55152

and the overall cost there is 760$ USD, but on the site you referenced the cost will only be 595$ USD overall so thank you so much!
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az5-deluxe.html

I am not completely sure if they are the same exact telescopes since one says Deluxe and the other one doesn't and one is €595 and the other one is £435 (€496), but since they seem to have the same specs I think the price difference will be worth it. Maybe there is even a different site out there that will sell this telescope for cheaper or ask for less money on the shipment. 

The question that I am wondering now is this: 

How would these two telescopes compare to the telescope above when it comes to my father's needs:

SkyWatcher Evostar-120 (EQ3-2)
1,167$ USD - 120mm/1000m - f/8.33 - x240
http://www.teleskobum.com/Evostar-120-EQ3-2,PR-100341.html

I also wonder if this 120mm one would be as good as 127mm ones since there is not much of a big difference on aperture. However, if we buy this type of a telescope, we'd probably buy this better version since these ones come with 9-month installment payment options (but still very expensive and big commitment).

SkyWatcher EVOSTAR-150 (EQ5)
1,700$ USD - 150mm/1200mm - f/8 - x300
http://www.teleskobum.com/EVOSTAR-150-EQ5,PR-100468.html

But these ones seem way more expensive than the Maksutov option though at least there are no customs issues with these ones since they are from a Turkish site.

I haven't talked to my father about manual vs auto telescopes yet, so I don't know which one he'll prefer more but just in case if he said manual, I was wondering, how do you guys think the Skywatcher Maksutov MC 127/1500 SkyMax telescope will compare to SkyWatcher EVOSTAR-120 or 150 telescopes when it comes seeing the moon's creators on high zooms and when it comes to maintenance?

For now, I am thinking about risking it with the customs and getting the first option I mentioned because of the humongous money difference but if the maintenance will be a big hassle then I might consider the Evostar Refractors. 

On Monday, I am thinking of calling the DHL Express that ships this telescope from this site:
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az5-deluxe.html

And ask them how much trouble the customs would cause me (if any) when it comes to shipping this telescope to Istanbul Turkey and that how much taxes they'll ask me to pay on the customs etc. (Btw DHL Express was the one who shipped the monucolar I mentioned before which got stuck on customs but maybe telescope is not an item that would have similar issues with a monucolar, maybe they just hate quality monucolars in Turkey)

For now, these are the rest of the things I am wondering (Edit: Btw, I already got some good answers to these questions on the other forum: https://goo.gl/uYt9C1 but please do let me know if I need to know anything else or if your opinion differs etc.)

When it comes to the maintenance/collimation of the Maksutov, my father doesn't speak English but with my translation help and talking with him on the Skype, we can hopefully go through any tutorials and hopefully collimate the telescope. Maybe I could find some Turkish sources on collimating a Maksutov as well or maybe find someone in Istanbul who knows this stuff and would be willing to help for money etc. 

However,

What am I wondering is that, will the telescope come perfectly collimated and will work for a good while (like a year) without ever needing a collimation? 

The second thing would be, how hard is it to do this collimation and if a handyman like my father who never collimated a telescope can get around this issue?

The third thing I am wondering is that, what exactly does collimation do? Is it for image better/sharper/quality visuals or is it for better/accurate direction? Because I feel like since he is basically only/mostly interested in the moon, even with wrong spotting accuracy on the telescope, I assume he'll eventually be able to find the moon and adapt to the inaccuracy of the telescope until it becomes unbearable.

Thank you all again for your help! ❤️

[happy-kat]

The evostar 150mm ...! That could be proper heavy and on an equatorial mount (not light) on your father's balcony I don't think make for good easy observing. Also being practical look at your father's observing position with a 700mm telescope how much longer in length do you think would be practical for your father while seated to be able to observe with.

[happy-kat]

Also only you know how capable you father is with lifting and manoeuvring heavy items. Equatorial mounts are heavier and have counter weights. Large refractors at heavy too and long probably why they come with an eq5 both for stability and counter weight balance.

[erseavetir]

14 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

The evostar 150mm ...! That could be proper heavy and on an equatorial mount (not light) on your father's balcony I don't think make for good easy observing. Also being practical look at your father's observing position with a 700mm telescope how much longer in length do you think would be practical for your father while seated to be able to observe with.

In that case, what do you think about the 120 version of the same telescope compared to 127 Alt-az mac that Louis mentioned all things considered:

SkyWatcher Evostar-120 (EQ3-2)
1,167$ USD - 120mm/1000m - f/8.33 - x240
http://www.teleskobum.com/Evostar-120-EQ3-2,PR-100341.html

VS

Skywatcher Maksutov telescope MC 127/1500 SkyMax-127 AZ-5
595$ USD - 127m/1500mm
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az5-deluxe/sky-watcher-skymax-127-az5-deluxe.html

 

I'll talk with my father about everything soon and see what he thinks about all of this. I wish the Evostar wasn't that expensive considering it won't require maintenance and will come to us within Turkey and with 9-month installment payment options but it's basically twice as expensive as the Maksutov and Maksutov's specs seem better, especially Focal Lenght.

Quote

Also only you know how capable you father is with lifting and manoeuvring heavy items. Equatorial mounts are heavier and have counter weights. Large refractors at heavy too and long probably why they come with an eq5 both for stability and counter weight balance.

I don't know, isn't the tripod will carry the telescope anyway so moving left,right,up,down shouldn't be that much of an issue (I assume) and I feel like if I mentioned both 120 Evostar's specs and 150 Evostar's specs he'll probably say "yeah I carry anything as long as I am on the moon"

[happy-kat]

Somone has to carry and lift the telescope onto the tripod.

[erseavetir]

7 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Somone has to carry and lift the telescope onto the tripod.

Ohh, I see. If that's the only issue then it's not a big deal because he has neighbors that can help him on that but I'll definitely let him know about that as well.

[happy-kat]

Do you expect to leave everything setup all the time on the balcony or does you father currently set himself up each time he uses his current telescope?

[erseavetir]

With his current telescope, he stores it in the room beside balcony (to protect it from weather conditions) so everytime before using it he carries it for a few meters and sets up the tripod to his liking and then watch the moon (while drinking beer and smoking and also listening the TV that is inside the room.

I just checked that the Evostar-120 is 25 kilos while the Evoastar-150 is 40 kilos which is really heavy vs near 9 KG from Maksutov. Definitely, something to consider and I now understand better what you mean when it comes to the difficulty of carrying this xD I guess the 120 would be a better pick in that case if we had to pick either 120 or 150 Evostar. 

Another thing I am wondering now is that the Evostar-120 says that it gives 240x power and the Maksutov would give 250x power but which one would actually give out true 240x-250x zoom, because I hear that some telescopes say they give out 250x while actually only handling 200x etc.

[happy-kat]

The evostar is also on an equatorial mount to setup.

If the setup becomes a chore it might put off use. I think I would want to find user reviews of the evostar to see what comments you can see about high magnification in good seeing on the Moon.

Why not ask that Turkish company what other tripod options they could offer for that telescope? 

[erseavetir]

1 minute ago, happy-kat said:

The evostar is also on an equatorial mount to setup.

If the setup becomes a chore it might put off use. I think I would want to find user reviews of the evostar to see what comments you can see about high magnification in good seeing on the Moon.

Why not ask that Turkish company what other tripod options they could offer for that telescope? 

That's a great idea as well, will do that.

Seems like there are three major cons with the EvoStar one, one being the weight (25 kilos vs 9 kilos) two being the 2x price, and the other one being equatorial mount vs alt-az mount that my father is very used to by now so I'll ask if that Turkish company can provide an alt-az mount for their EvoStar telescope. Thanks for the suggestion!

[happy-kat]

Using Google I came across images of the 102mm on an az4, but that is not enough of a jump from the 70mm. Maybe @John might comment on practically of the longer evostar 120mm on an az4 (assume zenith is out) .

[happy-kat]

The best telescope is the one that gets used regardless of whether has all bells whistles or is that easy quick one to setup and observe with.

[LukeSkywatcher]

On 21/06/2018 at 19:03, Louis D said:

This 127 Mak alt-az setup might be another good option for your dad:

This is good.

Tell your father to turn off the balcony light.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Here's my new scope (Bresser ar 102 xs) on AZ5 tripod/mount.