Taking the next step

[Z3roCool]

I have been imaging DSO's for about 7-8 months now and, other than the weather, fallen totally in love with it!

I currently have an NEQ6 mount and using my Canon 7D and Canon 400mm Lens. Getting, for me, some good results that I am really happy with.

Got PA down nicely (3-4mins subs unguided) PHD2 kind of sorted, getting up to 6mins with good results.

Looking now to step up to a scope and CCD when funds allow. 

Looking at spending around £1000 max on a scope and using with DSLR for the time being. Eventually, buy a CCD to go with the scope. Would really like to shoot Narrowband but know the whole setup will be in the £2k area with a decent CCD & filter set (ZWO 1600MM Pro).

My current thoughts are to go with something like the Skywatcher Esprit 80, WO GT81 or Orion ED80T.

Does anyone have any experience with these scopes and using them with DSLR/ZWO1600?

Just making sure I am making the correct decision with scope for what I intend to do down the line.

Many thanks for any input.

 

Tom.

 

 

 

[JohnSadlerAstro]

Hi,

I haven't used any of the scopes you listed; but you could take a look at the PDS range -- I have a 130PDS (f =650mm) and its a beautiful scope for imaging and visual on DSOs, also very sturdy and well-made.

The only downside is the collimation.

John

[MarsG76]

When you feel like you have exhaused all that your DSLR can do than a CCD, or cooled astro cam, is naturally the next step in progression... I imagine that the ASI1600 is a great astro cam. The reviews of the 1600 are great.

[Demonperformer]

You can get clip-in filters for the Canon that will enable NB (Ha at least) imaging. 

[newbie alert]

Personally I'd go for the esprit.. that will take you far beyond the time once you have purchased the ccd..awesome triplet

[wimvb]

If you go the mono cmos/ccd route you should also consider a decent ed (doublet) scope as an alternative to the triplet apo. You may be able to get more aperture for your money. Just a thought.

[tooth_dr]

What about an ED80, there is a nice one in the classifieds for under £300.  Then a SW 0.85x field flattener for around £100 second hand, and a new M48 T-adapter £20.  Maybe throw in a clip 12nm Ha filter for about £80. A formidable set up for half the budget and very little loss when you resell it, but you wouldn’t want to ??

At a reduced focal length of 510mm I don’t think it would be different enough perhaps to your lens?

 

[rigradio]

For your consideration...

I just switched from 60D to 1600MM-C.
I shoot h-alpha only as my first step with this new camera.
And I never look back on my 60D ever since, except for landscape astrophotography.


My 1600MM-C first light, with AT65EDQ ~ TSAPO65Q, 12nm Astronomik H-alpha.
 

Ketut

 

[Z3roCool]

On 18/06/2018 at 22:30, wimvb said:

If you go the mono cmos/ccd route you should also consider a decent ed (doublet) scope as an alternative to the triplet apo. You may be able to get more aperture for your money. Just a thought.

Good call, have looked at a few Doublets and always end up thinking I need the Triplet. Is there really much of a difference between a similar priced Triplet vs Doublet?

[Z3roCool]

On 18/06/2018 at 23:28, tooth_dr said:

What about an ED80, there is a nice one in the classifieds for under £300.  Then a SW 0.85x field flattener for around £100 second hand, and a new M48 T-adapter £20.  Maybe throw in a clip 12nm Ha filter for about £80. A formidable set up for half the budget and very little loss when you resell it, but you wouldn’t want to ??

At a reduced focal length of 510mm I don’t think it would be different enough perhaps to your lens?

 

Have thought about 2nd hand, think I will look again once I know what i definitely want. I think around the 470mm+ range is minimum as will get me a lot closer to smaller objects with the CCD/CMOS than my current setup. Cheers.

[Z3roCool]

On 19/06/2018 at 03:07, rigradio said:

For your consideration...

I just switched from 60D to 1600MM-C.
I shoot h-alpha only as my first step with this new camera.
And I never look back on my 60D ever since, except for landscape astrophotography.


My 1600MM-C first light, with AT65EDQ ~ TSAPO65Q, 12nm Astronomik H-alpha.
 

Ketut

 

Wow! That is stunning. Makes me even hungrier for the 1600MM! Brilliant! Will be a learning curve again I feel (Think this hobby is always going to be!)

[Spaced Out]

On 18/06/2018 at 14:16, JohnSadlerAstro said:

Hi,

I haven't used any of the scopes you listed; but you could take a look at the PDS range -- I have a 130PDS (f =650mm) and its a beautiful scope for imaging and visual on DSOs, also very sturdy and well-made.

The only downside is the collimation.

John

I'll second that, I'm just learning but loving the 130PDS so far, cheap too, got mine used in good nick for £100. Collimation was a real headache to start with but plenty of online guides and I soon got my head around it.

[wimvb]

2 hours ago, Z3roCool said:

Good call, have looked at a few Doublets and always end up thinking I need the Triplet. Is there really much of a difference between a similar priced Triplet vs Doublet?

Triplets have better colour correction (= less chromatic aberration) than doublets. The focus position differs between blue and red. With an osc, you can't correct this. But with a mono camera you can always refocus between the red frames and the blue frames. The same applies for narrow band, where you would refocus between Ha and Oiii. That's why a doublet is more forgiving in mono imaging.

When selecting a scope, first decide on a focal length range that you want. Use a field of view calculator to match fl to your camera, both sensor size and pixel size. After that, the largest aperture you can afford will give the highest optical resolution and the highest photon collecting capacity (aka F-number). Include a field flattener and possibly a focal reducer in your budget. Check reviews, some budget scopes can havegood optics, but flimsy focusers. Allow for an upgrade. After that, I would check here in the imaging sections and on astrobin, to see what the scope can do. But be aware that image quality may depend more on sky quality and expertise in processing than scope quality.

Generally, triplets of any brand are more expensive than doublets of the same brand (and fl and aperture). If they are in the same price range, I'd expect a difference in mechanics. Maybe tube material (carbon vs metal), or focuser quality.

[Z3roCool]

4 hours ago, wimvb said:

Triplets have better colour correction (= less chromatic aberration) than doublets. The focus position differs between blue and red. With an osc, you can't correct this. But with a mono camera you can always refocus between the red frames and the blue frames. The same applies for narrow band, where you would refocus between Ha and Oiii. That's why a doublet is more forgiving in mono imaging.

When selecting a scope, first decide on a focal length range that you want. Use a field of view calculator to match fl to your camera, both sensor size and pixel size. After that, the largest aperture you can afford will give the highest optical resolution and the highest photon collecting capacity (aka F-number). Include a field flattener and possibly a focal reducer in your budget. Check reviews, some budget scopes can havegood optics, but flimsy focusers. Allow for an upgrade. After that, I would check here in the imaging sections and on astrobin, to see what the scope can do. But be aware that image quality may depend more on sky quality and expertise in processing than scope quality.

Generally, triplets of any brand are more expensive than doublets of the same brand (and fl and aperture). If they are in the same price range, I'd expect a difference in mechanics. Maybe tube material (carbon vs metal), or focuser quality.

Great info, many thanks

[rigradio]

1600MM-C (mine is V3 not Pro) + H-alpha only as first step (filter wheel + other filters & auto focus can be added later).
More fun, believe me!
You will thank me later.

Ketut

 

[happy-kat]

Aren't some people using a CCD with a camera lens.

[Demonperformer]

Yes, done that. ZWO  do an adapter for Canon lenses - not sure about others.

[Shelster1973]

3 hours ago, Demonperformer said:

Yes, done that. ZWO  do an adapter for Canon lenses - not sure about others.

I have a Geoptix adaptor in the Canon flavour and have a Nikon > Canon adapter ring too, so can use different flavours of glass with it.  Works a treat.

Watching this with interest as am contemplating getting rid of my 8" newt and going down the frac route......

[JohnSadlerAstro]

5 minutes ago, Shelster1973 said:

Watching this with interest as am contemplating getting rid of my 8" newt and going down the frac route...... 

I might be able to help you out there, hehe!  

A bit off topic, but what are those really fast scopes like for focusing? My 130P-DS is f/5, and although it has a really small focus "window" I haven't had any issue with it. I have heard, though, that systems below f/4 get difficult to handle? 

John

[Shelster1973]

10 minutes ago, JohnSadlerAstro said:

I might be able to help you out there, hehe!  

A bit off topic, but what are those really fast scopes like for focusing? My 130P-DS is f/5, and although it has a really small focus "window" I haven't had any issue with it. I have heard, though, that systems below f/4 get difficult to handle? 

John

It can be a complete mare to get spot on.  Was my 1st scope too, so guess I jumped in at the very deep and difficult end with it.  Collimation has to be spot on and as you have said, the window is very small.  This is very evident if I try and image the moon.  Can get front in focus and then the back of the moon is out, that is how tight they are.  On the plus side, it does swallow photons at a great rate