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Image request - raw stacked 460EX image to process and compare with DSLR


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Would anyone be able to help me out?

Im still not sure whether to go for an ASI600 or an Atik 460EX, both mono.

Onr member has kindly sent me a raw tiff of IC1396 with the ASI1600.

Would anyone have anything similar but with an Atik 460? Ideally the Elephant Trunk so I can compare my DSLR image directly.

Something around 500mm focal length.

 

Thanks in advance. 

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1 hour ago, tooth_dr said:

Im still not sure whether to go for an ASI600 or an Atik 460EX, both mono.

On that front.....   I have a confession to make......  let me just say.....  it's on its way.   (   ?  )

 

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39 minutes ago, Craney said:

On that front.....   I have a confession to make......  let me just say.....  it's on its way.   (   ?  )

 

Legend mate!  I'll be deciding until next year at this rate

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That's the issue...... a case of    Go For It  !!    

although I am interested in the results of this thread.... your decision will most likely be  my next purchase.... 2019-mono-cam-decision-2.0

For now, I am dipping my toes in with an ATIK 414ex mono.....(second hand).....  watch this space..... ;) 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Craney said:

That's the issue...... a case of    Go For It  !!    

although I am interested in the results of this thread.... your decision will most likely be  my next purchase.... 2019-mono-cam-decision-2.0

For now, I am dipping my toes in with an ATIK 414ex mono.....(second hand).....  watch this space..... ;) 

 

 

Delighted for you, will look foward to your images.

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3 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Would anyone be able to help me out?

Im still not sure whether to go for an ASI600 or an Atik 460EX, both mono.

Onr member has kindly sent me a raw tiff of IC1396 with the ASI1600.

Would anyone have anything similar but with an Atik 460? Ideally the Elephant Trunk so I can compare my DSLR image directly.

Something around 500mm focal length.

 

Thanks in advance. 

Just remember there are many more factors in image quality beyond just the camera. You could end up comparing poor and good transparency, poor and good focus, poor and good seeing, fast and slow scope...etc...etc. 

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17 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Just remember there are many more factors in image quality beyond just the camera. You could end up comparing poor and good transparency, poor and good focus, poor and good seeing, fast and slow scope...etc...etc. 

Of course!  But I just want to get a feel for the difference, I've never seen or used RAW data from a CCD camera.  My DSLR image of IC1396 was taken on a night of excellent seeing/focus/guiding, so I think that should give me a good comparison against even a poor CCD image

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So you're thinking of moving over to the Dark Side Adam? ?  Congrats in advance. I would love to do the same myself, but am just about to move house so there's no chance of that happening any time soon, lol.

ps - If it were me, i'd probably go for the ASI1600. The extra resolution and real estate are an obvious bonus, but it's the ability to transition to taking much shorter subs (especially for NB) that would drive me towards picking it. Just my 2p's worth!

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6 hours ago, Xiga said:

So you're thinking of moving over to the Dark Side Adam? ?  Congrats in advance. I would love to do the same myself, but am just about to move house so there's no chance of that happening any time soon, lol.

ps - If it were me, i'd probably go for the ASI1600. The extra resolution and real estate are an obvious bonus, but it's the ability to transition to taking much shorter subs (especially for NB) that would drive me towards picking it. Just my 2p's worth!

Cheers Ciarán! I’m certainly looking into it with some determination. Every time I settle on it, the prospect of large file sizes and many many files does put me off, along with the calibration aspect!

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2 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Every time I settle on it, the prospect of large file sizes and many many files does put me off, along with the calibration aspect!

I'll pop in to mention the sensors' sizes difference. The 4/3 sensor is smaller than the APS-C sized sensor and the Atik's 460 sensor is even smaller. How much of the image circle do you want to give up?

Regarding the many large files, for narrowband I'm shooting 5 minutes subs. 120 subs (10h) means almost 4GB of data. Is that so much? You only need to stack them once.

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3 hours ago, moise212 said:

I'll pop in to mention the sensors' sizes difference. The 4/3 sensor is smaller than the APS-C sized sensor and the Atik's 460 sensor is even smaller. How much of the image circle do you want to give up?

Regarding the many large files, for narrowband I'm shooting 5 minutes subs. 120 subs (10h) means almost 4GB of data. Is that so much? You only need to stack them once.

Thanks! It’s not that much with 5 minute subs. It’s the shorter subs where the data I guess adds up. 

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3 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Thanks! It’s not that much with 5 minute subs. It’s the shorter subs where the data I guess adds up. 

I expose for 2-3 minutes at half unity gain (76) when shooting luminance. That's a ~double amount of subs compared to 5 minutes ones. Still, I don't mind. I can even easily afford to throw a few.

I use APP for calibration/stacking. After star analysis, registration, it assigns each sub a quality value (based on SNR and FWHM) and in the stack process I can choose to integrate each sub by using quality weighting. Combined with some more advanced rejection algorithms, it takes me maybe 15-30min to get a stack out of ~100 subs using my six years old i7 powered laptop with 8GB RAM and an SSD.

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19 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

 It’s the shorter subs where the data I guess adds up. 

Check out the work of this guy.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/559811-m1-crab-nebula-high-resolution-and-wide-field-with-qhy174mqhy5iii-290-m/

174 and 290 CMOS chips, exposures from 1.5secs to 7secs, and ...err...  11,000 of them......

My computer would write me an email of complaint if I tried to stack that lot.....

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7 minutes ago, moise212 said:

I expose for 2-3 minutes at half unity gain (76) when shooting luminance. That's a ~double amount of subs compared to 5 minutes ones. Still, I don't mind. I can even easily afford to throw a few.

I use APP for calibration/stacking. After star analysis, registration, it assigns each sub a quality value (based on SNR and FWHM) and in the stack process I can choose to integrate each sub by using quality weighting. Combined with some more advanced rejection algorithms, it takes me maybe 15-30min to get a stack out of ~100 subs using my six years old i7 powered laptop with 8GB RAM and an SSD.

I fully appreciate this!  I'll have to invest in a new HDD, as I'm currently running with a 160GB hard drive on my obsy PC!  But since HDD are cheap these days so this shouldnt influence my decision.

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1 minute ago, Craney said:

Check out the work of this guy.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/559811-m1-crab-nebula-high-resolution-and-wide-field-with-qhy174mqhy5iii-290-m/

174 and 290 CMOS chips, exposures from 1.5secs to 7secs, and ...err...  11,000 of them......

My computer would write me an email of complaint if I tried to stack that lot.....

I still cant get my head around it! The subs look like nothing, yet the details is exquisite and deep. I think I need to try to reprograme my head!

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1 minute ago, tooth_dr said:

I fully appreciate this!  I'll have to invest in a new HDD, as I'm currently running with a 160GB hard drive on my obsy PC!  But since HDD are cheap these days so this shouldnt influence my decision.

I've only 64GB both on my data acquisition laptop and on the upboard I use mostly. From there I transfer the data on the processing laptop.

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11 minutes ago, moise212 said:

I've only 64GB both on my data acquisition laptop and on the upboard I use mostly. From there I transfer the data on the processing laptop.

I need to be a bit more organised!  I do transfer data to my laptop, but sometimes it takes a couple of hours to move the data onto my 64GB memory pen!

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4 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I need to be a bit more organised!  I do transfer data to my laptop, but sometimes it takes a couple of hours to move the data onto my 64GB memory pen!

Perhaps you can do something to improve this first?! I transfer the files over ethernet or a fast USB3.0 stick when I use the other laptop.

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14 minutes ago, moise212 said:

Perhaps you can do something to improve this first?! I transfer the files over ethernet or a fast USB3.0 stick when I use the other laptop.

I have no internet nor do I have USB3.0!  I am thinking of buying a SSD drive and saving the images directly onto this, and cut out the PC HDD completely, would this work?

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1 hour ago, tooth_dr said:

I have no internet nor do I have USB3.0!  I am thinking of buying a SSD drive and saving the images directly onto this, and cut out the PC HDD completely, would this work?

You still need to transfer the files from the PC. I recently bought a cheap laptop which I use only for image acquisition. Maybe it's an option for you too. It was about 300 euros, it has an USB3.0 port, integrated eMMC storage.

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23 minutes ago, moise212 said:

You still need to transfer the files from the PC. I recently bought a cheap laptop which I use only for image acquisition. Maybe it's an option for you too. It was about 300 euros, it has an USB3.0 port, integrated eMMC storage.

I'm sure I'll work round it cheers.

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If you PM me your email address I will send you a link to a DropBox folder where you can download the raw data of the Elephants Trubk taken with an Atik 460 EX Mono at 760mm - not saying its world class but it might be fun to play with ?

 

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This is the link to the data - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gpncke2ebvm0e2o/AAA5nW3m94zYdxF9nSX2a-Yaa?dl=0

There are no flats, darks or bias as I have deleted last seasons ready for the new season - its nearly the longest day - the nights will be drawing in soon !!!!!

The result should look something like this or most probably a lot better ?

Anyone who wants to have a play please feel free to download and do what you wish with it.

Atik 460 EX Mono, Explore Scientific 210mm reflector, Baader filters, EFW2, Atik 460 EX mono on a SW AZ-EQ6-GT.

elephants trunk jpeg

 

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