good lenses for xt8 and filters?

[winters solace]

hi guys i recently purchases an orion xt8 and so far ive been enjoying today after collimating it. (though ill be doing a betterjob tomorrow) and holy crap did that improve the image from it. (purchased used on craigslist)

anyway it came with the orion shorty barlow lense. is this worth upgrading? also i found this

 https://www.amazon.com/Orion-8715-High-Power-1-25-Inch-4-Element/dp/B007XRDUUU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1526621851&sr=1-1&keywords=orion+5x+barlow+lense

would something like this be worth getting? or is it absolute overkill? would a "better" 2x be worth it a 3x? or is the included one good enough? i know my xt8 is really good to 406x so if i used a 25mm lense and a huge barlow would there be any benefit to it? or is it just dumb?

secondly it came with the 25mm sirius plossl lense. which seems to be good enough for being able to quickly find something. (or fall in love with moon and all its glory) i also had a k20mm and k4mm that came with a walmart bushnell telescope for the low low price of $35 i could see 4 of jupiters moons and its clouds. (but that 4mm lense was useless on it) anyway ive used those lenses on the xt8 and they were alright but that 4mm was just dim even on the moon tonight so i think it needs a new home.

would you guys say these are decent lenses? i was thinking of a 10mm and a 4mm 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008Y0SB/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008Y0S5/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

i know they smaller the lense size the better it needs to be since larger sizes can be rather forgiving. 

also does anybody know of a decent filter kit? does it really matter on the quality for them? i have the included moon filter which i plan on using once there is more moon to look at. i would like to get some filters to do more than just the planets and do nebula. this guide suggests oxygen 3 filters for blocking a huge portion of the visual spectrum. is there just a kickbutt that has it all?

[Timebandit]

 

Hello, and welcome to SGL

Firstly don't get hung up on the magnification part. The highest magnification is not always the best and sometimes newbies can get entrenched in the "magnification" .

The main goal IMO is clarity and sharpness. You wish the object you are seeing to be bright enough to observe and have maximum sharpness of view as possible. It's a waste of time have x400 pluscif all you get is a blur. Clarity and sharpness is what you are after.

If my memory serves me right. I think your scope is around f/6 . So in my opinion you want a eyepiece which is good ,but not silly money at this stage. The BST starguiders have a good reputation on this site. Around a 60d fov and good eyerelief. So certainly worth a look, as for the price of them they are good value.

I hope this helps☺

 

 

[rwilkey]

Hi Winters Solace, as said above, do not strive for magnification, you will be dissappointed.  Most stargazing is done at low powers, esp. where the deep sky is concerned, which is what the xt8 is good at.  Forget the 5x Barlow, that is for astrophotography work, not visual.  A 2x Barlow would get more use.  Also, the recommendation of BST StarGuiders above is a good choice and can be bought from the forum's sponsor at: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html
Also I recommend that you buy any astro gear from a dedicated astronomy supplier, where you will get good advice and great service.  Good luck with your choices!

[rwilkey]

Hi, just realised you may be in the US, so the best place to shop is Agena Astro, great advice and service, I have used them a number of times, the link to the StarGuiders is as follows: https://agenaastro.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=starguiders 

[winters solace]

been researching more into the magnification part. looks lik 406 is the best under perfect conditions. i ended up getting a 6mm and 9.7mm celestron 4k series. got both for around 30ish bucks. even if i cant ust the " max magnification" most of the time i figure for that price it cant be a loss while i save up for some "real" lenses lol.

 i also found an Orion ultra block narrow band for 40. (from amazon hopefully its not scracthed we'll see.) i plan on taking a trip to my local mountain here in a couple of weeks. (over 10,000 feet. it even has an observatory on it! ) i figure that will give me the best conditions for view. well anything lol.

anyway on the topic of filters does anyone know if this kit is worth a damn? its quite a bit cheaper than other kits but im worried it might be just junk lenses. does anyone have any experience with svbony?

https://www.amazon.com/SVBONY-Planetary-Pollution-Telescope-Accessories/dp/B072L6FF9G/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1526930600&sr=1-13&keywords=telescope+filters

 

[Ricochet]

Svbony is a brand stamped on generic stiff coming straight from China. It is the same quality as all the other stuff coming out of the same factories and having more expensive brand names stamped on. 

With regards to colour filters you may or may not find a use for them. Some people like them but I think most tend to leave them in the case. With respect to those particular filters they are only threaded on one side so you can't stack them if desired. 

[Louis D]

If you want to try a filter on the planets, I'd start with a generic Moon & Skyglow filter off of ebay or similar.  They tend to do a good job of enhancing feature contrast on the planets without noticeably darkening the view.  They're also handy for picking out comets near the sun (but not when the sun is above the horizon) along the horizon lost in the sunset or sunrise murk.

[rwilkey]

22 hours ago, winters solace said:

been researching more into the magnification part. looks lik 406 is the best under perfect conditions. i ended up getting a 6mm and 9.7mm celestron 4k series. got both for around 30ish bucks. even if i cant ust the " max magnification" most of the time i figure for that price it cant be a loss while i save up for some "real" lenses lol.

 i also found an Orion ultra block narrow band for 40. (from amazon hopefully its not scracthed we'll see.) i plan on taking a trip to my local mountain here in a couple of weeks. (over 10,000 feet. it even has an observatory on it! ) i figure that will give me the best conditions for view. well anything lol.

anyway on the topic of filters does anyone know if this kit is worth a damn? its quite a bit cheaper than other kits but im worried it might be just junk lenses. does anyone have any experience with svbony?

https://www.amazon.com/SVBONY-Planetary-Pollution-Telescope-Accessories/dp/B072L6FF9G/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1526930600&sr=1-13&keywords=telescope+filters

 

Hi Winters', my personal opinion is that colour filters do very little to enhance planetary or Moon detail.  If I were you I would wait awhile before you consider filters and get some experience at stargazing using what you already have.  The only worthwhile filters are the UHC and the OIII, that help define nebulae and in some cases makes the invisable visable.  Don't rush to buy too much all at once, take your time and think carefully about which direction you want to take. 

[winters solace]

ok what about brands? is astromania decent? i know of meade/ celestron /orion/tele vue (for those with deep pockets)

[rwilkey]

Hi Winters', not heard of 'Astromania', do you have a link?  There are no reviews anywhere...

[Charic]

On 18/05/2018 at 06:53, winters solace said:

i know my xt8 is really good to 406x

Theoretically your scope is supposed to be able to reach 406x under perfect conditions, but those conditions may never exist?
Better If you take your scopes aperture of 200 (203mm) and use this as your reference guide, your more likely to get better results visually at 200x than anything possible at 406 with your scope.
Same goes for my scope at f/6/200mm I've been finding that although I 'try' to use 'all' my eyepieces, I invariably end up with something between 8mm and 12 mm for most of my observable targets, which equates to 150 - 100x power.
The target images are small, but good enough to look at. Only on the Moon can I push the power to something close to 375x.
As for what you determine a good lens, they only become apparent AFTER you have tried them? I have tried several eyepieces and settled on whats left in my signature. They work very well for my eyes on this scope under my local conditions, and better still if I move away from the house, as generally, most scopes produce their best when away from any man-made lighting.

[winters solace]

thanks. i meant to say thats it is is theoretical max lol. most of the time im around 8-12mm myself. just depends. i guess my dream eyepiece is televues 6mm ethos wide view BUT thats a dream.

anyway i usually have good viewing conditions where i live. (for those wondering socorro new mexico. i live in the same county as the VLA and there is a 10,000 ft mountain peak where i live that has an observatory on it. an about 1 hour away from socorro to the top.) gotta love the desert. and up there i know i can push the magnification if i wanted too. 

@ rwilkey https://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&me=A35QEQK7X2VZX7&page=1

i dont have much faith in them. what brands are you using on your oIII and UHC filter?

does anyone have a good recommendation for a 2" widefield piece? also while im on the topic whats the advantage of 2" of 1.25"? i know there are typically lower magnification eyepiece in 2" ive been interested in fiding a good eyepiece that is on the lower magnification side and widefield.

[Ricochet]

7 hours ago, winters solace said:

does anyone have a good recommendation for a 2" widefield piece? also while im on the topic whats the advantage of 2" of 1.25"? i know there are typically lower magnification eyepiece in 2" ive been interested in fiding a good eyepiece that is on the lower magnification side and widefield.

The barrel size limits the physical size of the field stop which determines the field of view the eyepiece can deliver. For shorter focal length eyepieces the field stop is less than 1.25" so the smaller barrel can be used. Some maximums for 1.25" that I can rememeber off the top of my head are:

• 50° - 32mm
• 68° - 24mm
• 82° - 18mm

For a combination of AFoV and focal length higher than these numbers a 2" barrel is required to allow a large enough field stop. In addition for some especially large and heavy eyepieces a 2" barrel may be fitted for stability even though the eyepiece could be fitted to 1.25".

In my f6 8" dob I use a 28mm Nirvana (=William Optics UWAN) as my lowest power eyepiece but I would suggest you also look at the 20mm Lunt/APM HDC and if your light pollution is very low you could go as low as a 40mm 68° eyepiece; Explore Scientific or old Meade SWA spring to mind here. If your budget is lower let us know what it is and we can give other recommendations. The FoV of the above recommendations compared to your existing 25mm Plossl (purple line) are shown below ("Custom eyepiece" is the 20mm HDC):

[Louis D]

17 hours ago, winters solace said:

anyway i usually have good viewing conditions where i live. (for those wondering socorro new mexico. i live in the same county as the VLA and there is a 10,000 ft mountain peak where i live that has an observatory on it. an about 1 hour away from socorro to the top.) gotta love the desert. and up there i know i can push the magnification if i wanted too.

Been to the VLA.  Definitely dark skies.  I've eaten at the El Camino Restaurant & Lounge in Socorro a few times while passing through to Albuquerque from Cloudcroft.  I love the authentic, original condition mid-century diner decor.

Suggestion: Put Socorro, NM in your profile as your location.  It helps when making suggestions.

Now, I'm going to help you spend your money.  If you want to go cheap but decent quality, I'd recommend getting the 6mm and 9mm generic 66 degree eyepieces off of ebay for less than $45 shipped.  They can suffer from blackouts due to spherical aberration of the exit pupil (SAEP) on bright objects like the moon, but are otherwise quite decent for $22 apiece.  Next, I'd recommend the 23mm 62 degree aspheric eyepiece off of ebay for $9 shipped.  They fall apart a bit toward the edge, and you have to avoid cleaning the eye lens because it's aspheric molded plastic.  Finally, pick up an Olivon 8-24mm zoom from MASILMW on CN classifieds for $65.  These are blems with the magnifications printed backward.  They are the same as the Celestron Regal zoom eyepiece for half the price.  They very nice eyepieces with decent correction, smooth zooming action, near parfocality throughout the range, and 44 to 63 degree AFOV from 24 down to 8mm.

For widest field, 2" eyepieces, that's a lot tougher to do well on a tight budget.  Watch CN classifieds for a 40mm Meade 5000 plossl.  They have a 60 degree AFOV that is very good in the inner 30 to 40 degrees and are reportedly nearly the same as the new 40mm ES-62 for a fraction of the price.  They often come up for under $70.  I'd also watch for a 30mm 80 degree generic eyepiece there.  They often come up for $50 to $60.  The inner 40 to 50 degrees is very nice.  The outer part falls off rapidly mostly due to field curvature and astigmatism.  I like to think of it as a 30mm Plossl with a lot of extra field to locate bright objects and then recenter them.

[winters solace]

ok thanks for the replies! i updated my location, while im at it ill go ahead and list my current eyepieces. 

25mm orion sirius plossl that came with the xt8. 

2x orion shorty barlow that i somehow managed to give a small chip in the eyepiece. doesnt appear to screw with the view to much. need to do further testing and will most likely be replaced. (whats a good barlow to replace it with?)

9.7mm meade series 4000 plossl. (has ghosting. not a fan of it)

6mm meade series 4000 plossl (doesnt appear to have ghosting. need the moon to go away to get a better idea on how it performs but it seems fine)

4mm toy kensel 

20mm toy kensel. not the worst though. 

13% orion moon filter

orion ultrablock narrowband filter. for the most part unused. makes the ring nebula a little easier to see but again the moon has been blasting the sky. (local wildfire plus clouds humidity from a storm a couple of days ago and moon not the best conditions right now) got it for 40 instead of 100 so ill probably keep it and see how it works once the moon goes away.

i also have t his on order https://www.amazon.com/Tele-Vue-20mm-Plossl-Eyepiece/dp/B0001GO16C/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1527553052&sr=8-7&keywords=tele+vue

got it for 65-75 (once the seller gets back to me on the shipping ill know.) my plan was to use this with the barlow to have a "10mm" eyepiece as well since the 9.7mm is bad. that plan may now be shot thanks to the minor damage to the barlow. it was also going to be a test drive of a high quality eyepiece and see if i like it. does anyone have experience with this exact eyepiece? is it a good representation of a tele vue as a whole? or is it their lower end and their upper end stuff is even better?

as for how much im looking to spend right now i dont have much. budget is a bit stretched. but 50-100 for now until i can save for something better. there is a star party at the local college this saturday i plan on going and looking at the equipment other people have there. 

i have plans to get ride of the toy eye pieces and telescope at some point. so those will no longer be in the collection.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, winters solace said:

as for how much im looking to spend right now i dont have much. budget is a bit stretched. but 50-100 for now until i can save for something better. there is a star party at the local college this saturday i plan on going and looking at the equipment other people have there. 

Hopefully, someone there will have modestly priced eyepieces you can look through.  Strike up a rapport with some of the folks, hang around till the crowds thin, and ask to look through some alternatives to their normal star party eyepieces.

Around here in Central Texas, our star parties eyepieces tend be dominated by higher end eyepieces with longer eye relief and wider fields of view, so you would just come away with eyepiece envy and sticker shock later when you look up the prices.

1 hour ago, winters solace said:

is it a good representation of a tele vue as a whole? or is it their lower end and their upper end stuff is even better?

Televue Plossls are considered to be some of the best 50 degree eyepiece out there along with Celestron Ultima line (and similar), Clave Plossls, and Brandons.  They served to bring in money to Televue back in the early days to enable them to fund the start up costs of their more ambitious designs like the Nagler T1 line.  Their upper end stuff tends to be ground breaking and executed to very exacting stands in both optical and mechanical build.  They don't sell any junk, so be at ease on that point.

[winters solace]

yeah i figure there will be high end eye pieces. last time i went i think i saw 12" dob and that meade 700ish auto star finding scope. i think that guy was a novice still. so i guess ill see. im considering bringing mine. my dream piece is the 6mm ethos from televue. my money for astronomy is going to be dependant on if i bail on the RC hobby. (talk about expensive and easy to lose money fast when things go wrong.)

but its good to know tele vue has good stuff throughout their entire line. ill probably save for more of them depending on how much i like the one i ordered.

 

i looked at the 28mm william optics 2" eyepiece its nice but not affordable in the short tern