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Why are filter housings - taking multiple filters seen as useful for imagers only?


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This is a response I've written to a comment in an ad.  However, it's a different view point and I don't want to lose it when the ad. expires, so posting here and going to x-ref. to the ad. in question.

The comment in the ad. suggests that filter carousels are not of much use to visual observers.  However, I can't see why visual observers don't find more use for a filter carousel.  As I understand it visual observers use things like UHC, H-Beta, polarisers, O-111 etc.  When they want to use each one comes the messing about taking out the EP and adding it again with the filter in place.  I've got filter carousel - it has a EP holder above the filter hole, I fill it with my filters and leave one blank hole.  If I then want to try nebula viewing I reason that all I have to do is to install the filter housing and then once I've found a nebula all I have to do is to rotate the filters until I find the best one to use and I can view without a filter in place if I want to try that.   It is also a safe place to store the filters.

Any thoughts?

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I've only got a 2" O111 filter and I hold it in my fingers in front of my eye, not very safe but it's good for quickly comparing the view with / without filter :)

Dave

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I don't see why observers who use several filters should not have a carousel - makes sense.  

For imaging a carousel is essential, as taking a camera out and putting it back again to change filters, is not only fiddly and time consuming but unless you have taken flats with the first filter before removing the camera, the dust particles are likely to end up in a different place.  Getting your camera orientated the same so the images match up, checking focus. 

Too much faff wasting valuable imaging time.

Carole 

 

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37 minutes ago, JOC said:

The comment in the ad. suggests that filter carousels are not of much use to visual observers. 

The ad talks about using a 1.25" filter wheel with a DSLR, which is astrophotography. If you have enough in focus there is nothing wrong with using a filter wheel or slider in a visual setup.

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2 minutes ago, Macavity said:

Having once used a manual filter wheel, I found a Filter Drawer to be better suited to my
(more leisurely) purposes. I have a lot of filters -- You need  a new drawer for each tho? ;)

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2159_TS-Optics-Filter-Quick-Changer-for-2--filters---T2-mount---length-15-mm.html
 

At 90 euros per filter case?. Think I'd stick with the option I posted. 

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1 minute ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

At 90 euros per filter case?. Think I'd stick with the option I posted. 

The filter DRAWERS are 29 Euros... Compared with the price of some filters?
I do wish you'd THINK before contradicting, often well considered, posts... :)

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6 minutes ago, Macavity said:

The filter DRAWERS are 29 Euros... Compared with the price of some filters?
I do wish you'd THINK before contradicting, often well considered, posts... :)

Relax. I read the wrong price. Still more expensive than the filter wheel I linked to. Whatever takes your fancy. Done here. 

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11 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

What's not to like

That is very similar in idea to one I have, I've added little labels to the open side of the carousel so I know which filter is lined up with the EP as it spins.  I haven't really had much success using it in anger yet, the views of what I've tried have actually been better without it and my telescope does suffer a little from balance issues with the added weight, but the idea seems fine in principle

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1 hour ago, Macavity said:

Having once used a manual filter wheel, I found the Filter Drawer to be better suited to my
(more leisurely) purpose. I have a lot of filters -- You need a new drawer for each filter tho! ;)

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p2159_TS-Optics-Filter-Quick-Changer-for-2--filters---T2-mount---length-15-mm.html
 

That looks like a neat solution but how/where does it fit for visual use? I couldn't figure it out from the pics. That's a reflection on me not the product ;) 

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Previously I've used a earthwin power filterslider which is really useful for visual...it has the capability of holding two filters and you can slide them in and out very easily. And it has the ability to barlow or reduce your view by sliding these elements in and out also. When at dark sky sites I used my DGM NPB nebula filter as filter 1 and a OIII filter as filter 2. And when looking at planets I had a red filter as filter 1 and a Baader Neodymium as filter 2

image.png.95cc8ea2eab333adeeee3818c5401633.pngimage.png.83800d523b4155282db57b089a61a343.png

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

That looks like a neat solution but how/where does it fit for visual use? I couldn't figure it out from the pics.
That's a reflection on me not the product ;) 

As with all of these things, that is not then END of the story (Or indeed expense!) lol
The TS Filter Drawer has a Male T2 thread on one side and a Female on the other. :)

But there isn't a lot of thickness to play with, so you may need Delrin Spacers etc.  ;)

As practical example, I show my 2" to 1.25" Camera assembly for my VIDEO Newt:
On the left a 1.25" to T2 camera adapter. On the right a Baader T2 to 2" adapter. 
Both are now available from UK dealers as well! :)

5ae9a4b14cd8d_IMG_0819-Copy.JPG.01ea78b70c4d304e6be9f43616778bc8.JPG

Anyone else (me too!) working out "what fits what" has a LOT of sympathy... :D

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I've got a couple of 5 position 1.25" filter wheels for visual use only with my mak and sct. They make filters much easier to use and so they get used more

I've one for deep sky which has... lp, UHC, oiii, hb, and a clear slot. The other for planetary and moon usually has nd0.9, nd1.8, an empty slot, and then a couple of colour filters for the job at hand or a solar continuum filter.

I thought about a 9 position wheel but decided that was a bit too much weight and size to be hanging off my scopes. ?

Sometimes I fantasise about getting clear filters for my empty slots so that there is less refocusing to do but they never come up second hand.

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2 hours ago, Macavity said:

Having once used a manual filter wheel, I found the Filter Drawer to be better suited to my
(more leisurely) purpose. I have a lot of filters -- You need a new drawer for each filter tho! ;)
 

Yes, that's my choice too, although I went for the Baader system

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-ufc-universal-filter-changer-system.html

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36 minutes ago, AKB said:

Yes, that's my choice too, although I went for the Baader system

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-ufc-universal-filter-changer-system.html

Neat. So for visual, you get the base chamber, the M48 adapter and however many sliders you need? Then you just slide the filters in rather than screwing them in?

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1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

So for visual, you get the base chamber, the M48 adapter and however many sliders you need? Then you just slide the filters in rather than screwing them in?

You actually need an adapter on both sides of the main chamber: one on the camera side; one on the telescope side.  Otherwise, you have it right.  

I have this on my Hyperstar (obviously for imaging) but also my Quattro and C9.25 for both imaging and visual.  It’s fairly slim, that’s the attraction.

 

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@JOC Having gone round the loop of looking at various options, my conclusions are that:

  • Filters wheels/slides can be quite heavy and cause balance issues 
  • Lightweight options like those mentioned above are quite expensive

I guess it's not that filter housings aren't useful for visual but they have drawbacks too, whether they be practical or financial. I like the Baader system but it's too expensive for the relatively small benefit I'd get from it. I think their use is much more critical for imagers.

Those are my thoughts at least, hope they help :) 

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Evening all. :hello:

I posted the advert in question. (see below) 

8 hours ago, JOC said:

The comment in the ad. suggests that filter carousels are not of much use to visual observers.

I never mentioned visual. 

7 hours ago, carastro said:

I don't see why observers who use several filters should not have a carousel - makes sense.  

For imaging a carousel is essential, as taking a camera out and putting it back again to change filters, is not only fiddly and time consuming but unless you have taken flats with the first filter before removing the camera, the dust particles are likely to end up in a different place.  Getting your camera orientated the same so the images match up, checking focus. 

Too much faff wasting valuable imaging time.

Carole 

Couldn't agree more, makes perfect sense to me. 

7 hours ago, Ricochet said:

The ad talks about using a 1.25" filter wheel with a DSLR, which is astrophotography. If you have enough in focus there is nothing wrong with using a filter wheel or slider in a visual setup.

Thank you. :thumbsup:

7 hours ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

I'd like to see original ad. 

There you go. Although I have edited the advert in the hope to ignite a conversation about buying it rather than its use.

 

5 hours ago, Paz said:

a bit too much weight

That is exactly why I bought the smaller, lighter ZWO EFW. :thumbsup:

---

So, just to be clear, if you have/use more than one filter for visual use, IMO you probably would find it easier/better using a wheel. Manual of course to save a few quid. I mean, if you're stood next to it anyway... 

Phew, lots of quoting in two threads at the same time! :help:
Pete. 

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So, is it safe to say that filter wheels are a benefit to both visual and images. Depending on your needs, budget you can just as easily use one for both types of astronomy. Probably a little expensive for visual, but there are cheaper options available. I hadn't considered the extra weight issue. Easily overcome. 

To summarise: be it a filter wheel, an eyepiece turret or a zoom Ep. They are available, serve a purpose to most and its a personal thing, but they all work. 

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2 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Bigger than I imagined and I'd say weighty. 

I'm going out on a limb here however I think (looking at the photo) the one i have for sale is bigger in diameter. (And weighs a bit too! )

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