Anybody have a Sky-Watcher Heritage 90 Virtuoso?

[xvariablestarx]

I was wondering about the capabilities of the mount along with the little Mak telescope.

[AdeKing]

I got this setup not long after I got back into astro and used it for a while. The mount is effective with the 90mm mak and can be upgraded to fill goto with a Synscan handset and AZ cable.

The mount can be fitted to a tripod with a 3/8" thread.

I used the setup for a while but don't tend to use it any more as the 90mm aperture and narrow fov don't really suit DSO hunting though it does perform quite nicely on the moon and planets.

 

[Alien 13]

I have the Celestron version of the Mak (almost identical) and is is a great little scope for Moon and Planets and plenty of the brighter objects out there. It is my favorite scope that I own.

Alan 

[xvariablestarx]

I am not getting a new scope right now, but the idea of what I need is starting to crystallize in my brain.

 

I need this 90 Virtuoso and I need a ZWO ASI120MC-S camera, but as a future purchase.

Edited April 20, 2018 by xvariablestarx

[Girders]

I've got the Heritage 114p - the same Virtuoso mount but with 114p newtonian scope.

I've been very happy with it - although as a beginner my use has been limited.  It seems well built and it's quick and simple to set up - I can't imagine there's anything better as a truly portable "grab and go" as I can literally just pick it up and carry it outside and onto the garden table.  The concept of the tabletop mount works (fairly) well for me but you do need to be aware that regardless of how solid the table is (or whatever you sit it on) it still depends on the ground/surface underneath - decking with a little too much bounce in my case.  You do also need to work out a seating/standing arrangement that gets you at the right height for viewing.

Tracking has been fine for visual, but I think I read somewhere that as it's movements are very small up/down left/right rather than a true equatorial movement it isn't the best for long exposures?

I believe it also happily works with the Skywatcher wifi adaptor to provide go-to control via tablet/phone instead of having to buy a synscan handset. This is next on my purchase list!

The 114p has been good as a starter scope (had it since November) but I am now thinking of upgrade options and trying to find what the best scope I can get that will keep under the virtuoso mounts payload of 4kg.

Lastly, I have seen the mount and 90mm mak turn up individually on Astroboot (been tempted to go for the mak myself)

[Peter Drew]

You get a choice between a 114 Newtonian and the 90mm Maksutov. I chose the 114 as I already had a few 90mm Maks. The 114 is a very capable little telescope particularly for wide field use. The mount is probably one of the best table top variety, it's much more stable than most and its defining plus is that both axes can be overidden manually without upsetting the drive. 

[Geoff Lister]

I love mine. As mentioned, above, a great grab-and-go. The C90 Mak. has a relatively narrow field of view, and is not so capable as my Skymax 127mm Mak when looking for the faint fuzzies. The mount has a much higher slew rate than my others, and I have used it with the Skymax's Synscan handset for full GoTo. The mount is very stable, and I tend to use it on a glass-topped round patio table, about 60cm diameter and 60cm high, on my paved patio. The manual indicates that, although it is an Az/Alt Dobsonian mount, it can also be used on a wedge, to give it the photo-friendly EQ mount capabilities (on my "to do" list).

Geoff

[xvariablestarx]

I have a wide field 80mm refractor I suspect I could use on the Virtuoso mount also, if I wanted a less narrow view. I also have a tripod I hope I would be able to use with it.

[Geoff Lister]

The virtuoso mount uses the standard Celestron/Skywatcher/Vixen dovetail clamp. The basic mechanics are designed around a light-weight, compact, OTA. I have used mine with my 127mm Mak (3.5kg instead of the 90mm @ under 2kg), and the OTA from my truss-tubed 130mm Newtonian Heritage 130P, but I try to avoid doing maximum-speed slews. The Virtuoso mount has adequate clearance for the 90mm OTA, but will not work with a balanced 127mm or 130mm at high altitude angles. A long-tube refractor would also have similar restrictions, and would impose greater torsion loads during acceleration. Like many pieces of equipment, you only know the true limits when something breaks .

Geoff

[Girders]

30 minutes ago, Geoff Lister said:

 I have used mine with my 127mm Mak (3.5kg instead of the 90mm @ under 2kg), and the OTA from my truss-tubed 130mm Newtonian Heritage 130P, but I try to avoid doing maximum-speed slews. The Virtuoso mount has adequate clearance for the 90mm OTA, but will not work with a balanced 127mm or 130mm at high altitude angles. 

Thanks Geoff - very useful to know what some of the alternative options are for this mount (it's not always easy to find OTA weights in specs).  

[happy-kat]

18 hours ago, Geoff Lister said:

The manual indicates that, although it is an Az/Alt Dobsonian mount, it can also be used on a wedge, to give it the photo-friendly EQ mount capabilities (on my "to do" list).

The newer edition of the manual no longer talks about the EQ mode boot up option when I last downloaded it.

[Geoff Lister]

3 hours ago, happy-kat said:

The newer edition of the manual no longer talks about the EQ mode boot up option when I last downloaded it.

I have 3 versions of the manual, 2 PDFs downloaded about a year ago, and the paper version supplied with my 'scope. Each is different. My paper version "Instruction Manual MiniDob Mount" has the cover sheet and then internal pages labelled "1" to "16" + back sheet. One PDF, 7656KB, with front page title "Instruction Manual Skywatcher Virtuoso Multi-purpose Mount #S11750" seems to be aimed at the USA market, has an additional solar filter accessory, and a Celestron USA contact address; it has 13 pages. The other PDF, 368KB, same title as my paper version, but with different text, graphics and paragraph structure, and with front sheet, then pages labelled "1" to "10" (no back sheet).

My paper copy, on page 11, has the following section entitled "Equatorial Tracking Mode for Celestial Body"

1. Attach the MiniDOB onto an elevation degree adjustable tripod according to the figure below:- (figure shows a tripod with an adjustable inclined plane)

2. Users in Northern Hemisphere aim the tripod at North (Users in Southern Hemisphere aim the tripod at South). Adjust the elevation angle and ensure it equals the local geographical latitude value. (No advice for those living on the equator).

3. Set the Latitude setting for the MiniDOB according to the 'Quick Guide' (pg 3). This is a bit confusing, as there is no 'Quick Guide' on page 3, but pages 1 & 2 have a 'Quick guide' for North and South hemispheres, respectively, and section 3 of each shows setting local latitude for N hemisphere and "0" for S hemisphere.

4. Press '5' first then 'turn on power', it should now be under the RA equatorial longitude tracking mode.

I assume that, in stage 4, holding down button "5" at power-up, turns off the altitude axis tracking component. Worth a try at some point.

Geoff

 

[happy-kat]

The interesting thing to me is one of my manuals covering the eq mode shows the mount on what looks like the star adventure wedge. 

[Geoff Lister]

4 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

The interesting thing to me is one of my manuals covering the eq mode shows the mount on what looks like the star adventure wedge. 

Yes, mine does too. My Virtuoso mount has a female 3/8" - 16 UNC tripod thread, but most of my photographic tripods (cameras and dovetail bars) use 1/4" - 20 UNC. A quick web search indicates that the Star Adventurer wedge seems to have a 3/8" female thread on the tripod end, but I could not find thread details for the male, camera/OTA, end.

Geoff

[happy-kat]

I just use those small things you can insert into the larger thread to make it smaller to fit the smaller tripod screw.

[Geoff Lister]

I made a small adaptor so that I can use my Virtuoso mount on my Skymax's tripod. I screwed a "Terry" clip to the side of the Virtuoso mount, to keep the adaptor handy.

[Geoff Lister]

On ‎21‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 17:49, Geoff Lister said:

The manual indicates that, although it is an Az/Alt Dobsonian mount, it can also be used on a wedge, to give it the photo-friendly EQ mount capabilities (on my "to do" list).

UPDATE - I am convinced that, as this feature is not mentioned in the Virtuoso manuals currently available on the Skywatcher web site, the software does not now support this feature. The details below show how I have come to this conclusion; but am I missing something?

I have made up a simple wedge with 3 pieces of chip-board. the long bit forms a base, with 3 rubber feet, the second is a plate, angled at 38.6 degrees (my garden is 51.4 degrees N), and the third supports the wedge angle. I have added some little blocks to the wedge, to act as supports for the Virtuoso's feet, and a central hole to take a 1/4" - 20 UNC bolt and 3/8" male to 1/4" female adaptor. The base has a bubble level and holder for a round magnetic compass.

Now my problem:-

On ‎22‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 16:42, Geoff Lister said:

I have 3 versions of the manual, 2 PDFs downloaded about a year ago, and the paper version supplied with my 'scope. Each is different. My paper version "Instruction Manual MiniDob Mount" has the cover sheet and then internal pages labelled "1" to "16" + back sheet. One PDF, 7656KB, with front page title "Instruction Manual Skywatcher Virtuoso Multi-purpose Mount #S11750" seems to be aimed at the USA market, has an additional solar filter accessory, and a Celestron USA contact address; it has 13 pages. The other PDF, 368KB, same title as my paper version, but with different text, graphics and paragraph structure, and with front sheet, then pages labelled "1" to "10" (no back sheet).

My paper copy, on page 11, has the following section entitled "Equatorial Tracking Mode for Celestial Body"

1. Attach the MiniDOB onto an elevation degree adjustable tripod according to the figure below:- (figure shows a tripod with an adjustable inclined plane)

2. Users in Northern Hemisphere aim the tripod at North (Users in Southern Hemisphere aim the tripod at South). Adjust the elevation angle and ensure it equals the local geographical latitude value. (No advice for those living on the equator).

3. Set the Latitude setting for the MiniDOB according to the 'Quick Guide' (pg 3). This is a bit confusing, as there is no 'Quick Guide' on page 3, but pages 1 & 2 have a 'Quick guide' for North and South hemispheres, respectively, and section 3 of each shows setting local latitude for N hemisphere and "0" for S hemisphere.

4. Press '5' first then 'turn on power', it should now be under the RA equatorial longitude tracking mode.

I assume that, in stage 4, holding down button "5" at power-up, turns off the altitude axis tracking component. Worth a try at some point.

Steps 1 & 2:- are sorted with my wedge.

Step 3:- I normally use the mount in its Az/Alt mode, so it is already set up for my location. Now this is where the problems start. Page 8 of the manual states "Aim the main tube at true North and let the altitude scale read local latitude. Power on, or restart power". When on the wedge, true North is at 90 deg. on the Alt scale, not at my local latitude of 51.4 deg., so which is correct for EQ mode?

Step 4:- After holding down "5", turning ON power, and releasing "5" shortly afterwards, the mount emits its normal <beep> <beep> and double flash about every 2.5 seconds. There is no indication of a different tracking mode.

EXPERIMENTS

Baseline 1:- normal Az/Alt operation (tracking ON) with OTA left pointing at NCP (no tracking movement required in either axis).  Plug-top mains to 12V, 2A, supply in a plug-in power meter gives a reading of 0.8 to 0.9W (reading is 0.1W when mount is turned off).

Baseline 2:- normal Az/Alt operation with OTA pointing at NCP at start-up, and then Az axis rotated to point East. Alt axis moves up and Alt rotates towards South. Power input varies between 1.5 and 2.9W.

Experiment 1:- Still as Az/Alt, as Baseline 2 with OTA pointing at NCP, press "5", power up, release "5", and then rotate Az axis to point East. Both axes movement and power consumption similar to Baseline 2. Conclusion:- holding "5" pressed at power-up has no effect on subsequent operation.

Just as a final sanity check, fix Virtuoso mount onto NCP-aligned wedge.

Experiment 2:- Set Alt scale to local latitude (51.4 deg.) with base N-S line facing North - South, press "5", power up, release "5". OTA is facing North about 38 deg. below NCP. No movement in either axis, and power remains 0.8 to 0.9W. Conclusion:- had this been the correct setting for EQ operation, I would have expected the Az axis to rotate and the OTA to describe an obvious arc centred on the NCP.

Experiment 3:- Set Alt scale to 90 deg. with base N-S line facing North - South, (OTA on NCP) press "5", power up, release "5". No movement in either axis, and power remains 0.8 to 0.9W. Conclusion:- no better than Experiment 2.

I can only conclude that the version of software present in my mount does NOT read the state of the "5" button at power-up, and if pressed, go into an EQ mode.

However, I think I have found a solution, to get EQ tracking. At the North Pole, an Az/Alt mount and an EQ mount have the same orientation, and if I store the latitude constant at 90 deg., and then power-up with the Alt scale at 90 deg., tracking should only require movement in the Az axis. Clearly, if I do this at 51.4 deg. North, with a level mount, tracking will be useless; but if I fit it on a polar-aligned wedge, it should be OK.

Experiment 4:- Virtuoso mount Az/Alt levelled (including OTA) and aligned N-S. Power-up and raise Alt to 90 deg. Press "2" & "3" simultaneously, accompanied by rapid flashing of keypad lights. Power-down. Mount is now set for Az/Alt tracking at North Pole. Fit Virtuoso mount to (roughly) polar-aligned wedge. Power-up and set Alt scale to about 45 degrees and Az towards East. Power input 1.4 to 1.8W. After several hours, Alt scale reading unchanged and Az rotated towards South. Success!

As a final check, fitted OTA from Celestron Travelscope 70mm F400mm + solar filter, moved kit to garden, and after rough alignment, rotated Az/Alt (= Dec/RA) to track Sun. Conclusion:- tracking reasonable, but will need more accurate night-time test.

I would be interested to know if any other members have tried this.

Geoff

[happy-kat]

Good experimenting there. I have not tried mine yet. I guess there are different firmware versions. Also should be able to test this with no wedge as if it does work in eq mode then that should still be discernable without a wedge.

[happy-kat]

Here's the page from the manual I have.

[Geoff Lister]

Mine's almost the same; identical graphics and text; except mine is page 11 instead of 9.

Geoff

[happy-kat]

If I can add I hope to use mine tonight.

My plan is tube on mount and telescope altitude set as 0. Mount has previously set up for local altitude 51°. Tube pointing to Polaris but is at 0 altitude just like normal turn on routine.

Mount is on level base but I am pretending it is on a wedge.

Press button 5 and turn on mount.

Tracking will now only be in azimuth.

Let's see if that holds true.

Re reading your baseline it is different, my base line is tube at 0 but pointing towards Polaris direction. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by happy-kat

[Geoff Lister]

Your plan looks good. It will be interesting to see, with your Virtuoso mount, if button 5 has any effect at power-up. I tried some other variations of experiments, not listed above, and my button 5 had no effect at power-up.

Last night's sky was very clear, with no Moon, so my 10" Dob. had priority over further Virtuoso experiments.

Geoff

[happy-kat]

Testing was inconclusive, I'll need to ponder this. Clear sky but low level mist really so stars not hugely clear at all.

[happy-kat]

I did ponder this and my next test would be:

reset mount altitude but at 0

place mount on wedge (which I have not made)

using synscan handset confirm location latitude as 0 but set azumith as location being used from

I am hoping it will now track only in RA.

[Geoff Lister]

21 hours ago, happy-kat said:

reset mount altitude but at 0

As I see it, this would be equivalent to observing from the equator. I'd be interested to know if it works for you.

Geoff