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Help! Heq5 making loud noises


cuivenion

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20 minutes ago, spillage said:

Just a quick thought. Try removing the clutch lever and moving it over a few clicks as this might not be locking the clutch down enough and its slipping.

I did think I was tightening it enough. There is room to tighten more but I always thought you weren't suppose to overtighten.

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On my eq6 I hang of off them to tighten them down. Maybe I need to ease of a bit :wacko:. If you feel it will tighten some more then I would do this. After all you are only pushing a brass shim on to a brass worm and I think it would take some real effort the strip the threads.

Maybe get the mount to do this again and then check for any movement in the dec.

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8 minutes ago, spillage said:

On my eq6 I hang of off them to tighten them down. Maybe I need to ease of a bit :wacko:. If you feel it will tighten some more then I would do this. After all you are only pushing a brass shim on to a brass worm and I think it would take some real effort the strip the threads.

Maybe get the mount to do this again and then check for any movement in the dec.

Hi, There is no play in the axis that I can detect. I did open the motor cover last night and I noticed that the dec is a lot stiffer to turn than the RA. Maybe thats why the dec clutch is slipping and not the RA. Could I change this by adjusting the dec worm?

As an aside I have wondered why the the clutch mechanism on mounts is not more robust, something like the baader click lock system. That way pressure would be applied equally around the worm wheel rather one little brass button pressing on one point.

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It might be where the gear is not perfectly round and you have a tight spot, but this would easily show up as it would happen in the same place all the time. If it were my choice then I would adjust the worm just an 1/8 of a turn away from the gear to see if this makes any difference. 

If you have any reservations regarding the previous owner then I really would suggest a strip down and clean up.

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Here's one that appeared on sgl a few weeks back , yikes the boss would kick me out if this was our house . 

IMG_5603.JPG.454398e905687cbd394bdc5eac0c6f15.JPGI've had the dreaded whirring grinding noise from Dec axis. Once it was when I forgot the counterweights ( doh) and again when one of the counterweights slid down the shaft ( doh ) . A gentle adjust to the Dec axis and smooth quiet action was restored. I wouldn't be at all worried ,as these mounts are quite bullet proof. 

Nick.

 

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Thats the idea :) mine has been like this several times. First time was a bit hair raising but you soon realise that there are not that many parts and Its not that big a deal.

I can only recommend astrobabys guide and the hypertune guide. Mine did need some sympathetic adjustments though.

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Going by the sound recorded in the video plus the description that the mount is juddering in DEC only could be either mechanical or electronic in nature.

When a stepper motor, such as those in the HEQ5 reach their torque limit through mechanical resistance to rotation then they will stall and vibrate loudly, sometimes known as ‘cogging’, when this happens the mount will shake, judder and complain loudly.

Stepper motor ’cogging’ can also be caused by a defect with the electronics, an intermittent fault with the stepper drivers on the power board, a low power issue, bad wire connection etc and intermittent faults with electronics can be heat related, with no problem evident until the mount has been in use for a while.

To help determine if it is electronic or mechanical the fault finding steps to take require a few logical steps.

First, with the power off, open the covers to access the power board, find the cables from the RA and DEC stepper motors and follow them back to their respective plugs and sockets on the power board, unplug them and swap them over.

Power up the mount and drive RA and DEC individually from the handset at high speed.

Driving the RA from the handset will now move the DEC motor and vice-versa.

If the sound and juddering still only happens when the physical DEC axis is moving then an electronic fault can be ruled out and the problem is either a defective stepper motor for the DEC axis, a too-tight adjustment of the mesh between stepper motor gear and transfer gears, or more likely, a too-tight worm mesh, an over-tight DEC axis due to poor adjustment of axis end-float or age stiffening of the DEC axis bearing greases. A slight adjustment of the worm mesh may be all that is required. If the mount is a few years old then a clean and regrease may be required as the Synta greases are known to harden after a few years. 

If, after swapping over the stepper motor plugs at the power board the sound and juddering now only happens in the RA axis then the fault is electronic in nature and would indicate a power board problem.

Swapping over the stepper motor plugs on the power board and testing should take around an hour.

So far as tightening the clutches, for a well balanced payload the clutches should be just ‘nipped’ up to stop slippage during acceleration and normal use, if you accidentally walk into or strike the mount with the clutches tightened you want them to slip otherwise damage to the teeth of the worm and gear will occur, the clutches can be thought of as a safety device as well as a simple mechanical coupling.

HTH.

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Ok got it to be repeatable, and it does occur with the handset. Ran the mount with the motor cover off and I can see it's just the dec thats the problem. The fault occurs when I point at the the south east horizon. The noise is a lot worse when heavily loaded and it doesn't always occur.

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11 minutes ago, Oddsocks said:

Going by the sound recorded in the video plus the description that the mount is juddering in DEC only could be either mechanical or electronic in nature.

When a stepper motor, such as those in the HEQ5 reach their torque limit through mechanical resistance to rotation then they will stall and vibrate loudly, sometimes known as ‘cogging’, when this happens the mount will shake, judder and complain loudly.

Stepper motor ’cogging’ can also be caused by a defect with the electronics, an intermittent fault with the stepper drivers on the power board, a low power issue, bad wire connection etc and intermittent faults with electronics can be heat related, with no problem evident until the mount has been in use for a while.

To help determine if it is electronic or mechanical the fault finding steps to take require a few logical steps.

First, with the power off, open the covers to access the power board, find the cables from the RA and DEC stepper motors and follow them back to their respective plugs and sockets on the power board, unplug them and swap them over.

Power up the mount and drive RA and DEC individually from the handset at high speed.

Driving the RA from the handset will now move the DEC motor and vice-versa.

If the sound and juddering still only happens when the physical DEC axis is moving then an electronic fault can be ruled out and the problem is either a defective stepper motor for the DEC axis, a too-tight adjustment of the mesh between stepper motor gear and transfer gears, or more likely, a too-tight worm mesh, an over-tight DEC axis due to poor adjustment of axis end-float or age stiffening of the DEC axis bearing greases. A slight adjustment of the worm mesh may be all that is required. If the mount is a few years old then a clean and regrease may be required as the Synta greases are known to harden after a few years. 

If, after swapping over the stepper motor plugs at the power board the sound and juddering now only happens in the RA axis then the fault is electronic in nature and would indicate a power board problem.

Swapping over the stepper motor plugs on the power board and testing should take around an hour.

So far as tightening the clutches, for a well balanced payload the clutches should be just ‘nipped’ up to stop slippage during acceleration and normal use, if you accidentally walk into or strike the mount with the clutches tightened you want them to slip otherwise damage to the teeth of the worm and gear will occur, the clutches can be thought of as a safety device as well as a simple mechanical coupling.

HTH.

Thanks, I'll do this and hopefully finally nail it down. The red light doesn't flash when the fault is occuring so hopefully it's not a power problem. The motor section of the dec does seem a lot stiffer than the RA, so it's looking like an adjustment of the worm mesh is the way to go.

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I would follow @Oddsocks advice regarding the power connectors (not my thing as I do not do electronics) to confirm its not that first but to me it is sounding like its mechanical and the worm need adjusting.

 

With my mount if I slightly over do the worm on the RA then it will bind but only when East and nearly horizontal.

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Just to muddy the waters I swapped over the motors on the board and now I can't recreate the fault in either axis. Is it possible that the dec board connector was a little loose and is now performing properly now that both have been reseated?

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1 minute ago, cuivenion said:

Right with the 200p loaded the fault is back and not in the same area either. It's also much louder. So I'm guessing that the solution is a worm gear adjustment

Before jumping in with the worm gear adjustment make sure to fully loosen the setting circle thumb screws on both axis then test again.

I found with my HEQ5 PRO that over tightening the setting circle thumb screws can cause the axis to bind as the scale rubs against the body of the mount.

As I don't use the setting circles I removed both thumb screws and keep them in bag with the shipping box for the mount head.

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1 minute ago, Oddsocks said:

Before jumping in with the worm gear adjustment make sure to fully loosen the setting circle thumb screws on both axis then test again.

I found with my HEQ5 PRO that over tightening the setting circle thumb screws can cause the axis to bind as the scale rubs against the body of the mount.

As I don't use the setting circles I removed both thumb screws and keep them in bag with the shipping box for the mount head.

They were already completely loosened, but thanks for the info. The counterweight collar has been adjusted so there is no play but the axis moves smoothly without the clutch off too. The dec worm is really tight but the RA just moves easily, even with the 200P loaded.

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5 minutes ago, Oddsocks said:

Before jumping in with the worm gear adjustment make sure to fully loosen the setting circle thumb screws on both axis then test again.

I found with my HEQ5 PRO that over tightening the setting circle thumb screws can cause the axis to bind as the scale rubs against the body of the mount.

As I don't use the setting circles I removed both thumb screws and keep them in bag with the shipping box for the mount head.

One question, is the worm adjustment safe to do with the mount fully loaded?

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Looking at astrobaby's guide it is the same as the 6, so it is just a plate that moves and is not load bearing. Just undo the worm screw on the opposite side of the worm first before you tighten up the worm side.

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2 minutes ago, spillage said:

Looking at astrobaby's guide it is the same as the 6, so it is just a plate that moves and is not load bearing. Just undo the worm screw on the opposite side of the worm first before you tighten up the worm side.

Opposite the gear on the motor side?

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4 minutes ago, spillage said:

Looking at astrobaby's guide it is the same as the 6, so it is just a plate that moves and is not load bearing. Just undo the worm screw on the opposite side of the worm first before you tighten up the worm side.

Under the rubber cover?

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