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20mm T5 v 22mm T4 Naglers


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The type T4 I take was the predecessor to the T5 Nagler. Therefore I should imagine there was a bit of a marketing reason to make a 2mm difference. Anyone with with the 22mm T4 would then not double up on focal length if they brought the T5 at 20mm

As for the ethos at 21mm , then again anyone with a T4 of 22mm or T5 of 20mm would not double up if they wanted a ethos at 21mm . Again probably a marketing move to increase customer sales . 

As for which is best , then this is relative as everyone eyes and budgets differ. To me it has to be the T5 Nagler. Why? ,as it is far cheaper than the ethos. And still has great fov and eye relief, and  the optical quality is fantastic. But also I own one ?

 

 

 

 

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The 22mm T4 has increased eye relief (19mm designed, though it is less in use).  It was introduced in 1998.

The 20mm T5 was a continuation of the T5 line started with the 31mm T5.  It has tighter eye relief at 12mm, but an incredibly sharp field in comparison to the 22mm T4.  It was introduced in 2003.

The 21mm Ethos is for maximizing TFOV in a 100 degree eyepiece without introducing vignetting or artifacts like the 25mm ES-100.  It was introduced in 2009.

I guess we're overdue for a new 20mm-22mm eyepiece from Televue.  They used to come out every 5 or 6 years.  Perhaps a 2" Delos?

Edited by Louis D
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The T4 were designed with glasses wearers in mind and offered more eye relief for those users. The T5 are sharper but no use to glasses wearers.

I had a 22mm T4 and loved it. It was my most used eyepiece in the C11.

I only sold it to fund an Ethos21 when I got my big dob (which made both the 22mm T4 and 31mm T5 Naglers redundant in my collection).

I would definitely buy another 22mm T4 as it was very comfortable to use (and in fact nearly did last month when I was looking for a longer eye relief 20mm+ eyepiece but opted instead for a 27mm Panoptic as 82 degree fov is not needed for night vision). A 20mm T4 came up on astrobuysell a few weeks back for £230 which had me twitching to buy it :)

Edited by alanjgreen
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A good many years ago the Sky at Night mag reviewed both of them as well as others and found the 20mm N to be the best 82 degree eyepiece on the market in that general F/L area, second place was the 22mm Nagler. I owned the 20mm for a longtime and only sold it when the 21mm Ethos filled the gap, it is a superb eyepiece though not cheap.

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I've had both the 22mm and 20mm Naglers. I bought the 22mm second hand and was surprised at the terrible edge distortion. I'm almost certain it had been messed around with by its previous owner and so I got rid of it pretty quickly. The 20mm Nagler was an amazing eyepiece.  I no longer use 2" eyepieces, but if I did I'd happily and rapidly acquire a 20mm Nagler again. It may seem strange but I found that not all Naglers were equally good, and I've owned almost all of them. My favourites were the 31mm, 20mm, 13mm, 7mm (preferably the 7mm smooth version) and the 5mm, although below 13mm's I'd go for Pentax XW's for optical quality.

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I have all T4 Naglers, and the 31T5, all of which have sufficient eye relief. I really love the 22T4, it is my main galaxy hunting EP. The 17T4 is a touch sharper; the 12T4 is used least, and is not quite as sharp as the other two. I tend to use the Delos 14mn instead. As mentioned before, the T5 Naglers have less eye relief, although the 31 and 26 mm are still usable with glasses.

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2 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

My favourites were the 31mm, 20mm, 13mm, 7mm (preferably the 7mm smooth version) and the 5mm, although below 13mm's I'd go for Pentax XW's for optical quality.

Which 20mm, the T2 or T5?  Which 13mm, the T1 smoothie, T1 rubberized, or T6?  I'm guessing the 7mm T1 smoothie by your description.

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31 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Yes, it was the 20mm T5, 13mm T6 and the 7mm T1.

Do you find the 30+ year old coatings and stray light control on the 7mm T1 to be somewhat lacking?  I picked up a 14mm Meade 4000 UWA smoothie, and the coatings are definitely dated to the 80s, and so is the stray light control.  It's not pitch black inside like more modern premium eyepieces, and there is all sorts of flaring on bright objects.  It makes you really appreciate all the advances in eyepiece technology over the past 30+ years.

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I have a 22mm Nagler specifically for the long eye relief, this goes with a 31mm Nagler which is also good for eyerelief and then a set of Delos for shorter focal lengths. I really like the 22mm, it gives super clean and easy to access views.

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1 hour ago, Paz said:

I have a 22mm Nagler specifically for the long eye relief, this goes with a 31mm Nagler which is also good for eyerelief and then a set of Delos for shorter focal lengths. I really like the 22mm, it gives super clean and easy to access views.

What are they like for eye placement & bean/cut-off issues?

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I have both and prefer the 22 t4. As others have noted it has a MUCH more immersive feel. The 20 t2 had a similar feel but one had to stick ones eye into it to get that feel, the 22's eye relief is much more comfortable. In my typical seeing there is no difference in sharpness between the 20, 22 and the 21 Ethos.

That said since I bought the 21 Ethos I don't use either the 20 or the 22. The Ethos is really superb, and I love its fov. It's the pinnacle of TeleVue design. I probably should sell the 20 and 22 but I find it difficult to get rid of such classic eyepieces. The 20 is comparatively small so it may get some use in my smaller scopes.

20180405_143307_resized.jpg

20180405_143359_resized.jpg

 

Edit: AFAIK the 20 t5 has been discontinued.

Edited by laservet
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I loved my 22T4, very compact vs the 21mm Ethos but mine didn’t get used much either after the Big E arrived. I did keep a 31T5 alongside it though, enjoying that little bit extra fov, and actually on one occasion it showed the Crescent Nebula better than the Ethos.

Modern coatings do make a difference, I’ve seen that demonstrated very clearly in a side by side between a 17 Ethos and an older style Televue.

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34 minutes ago, laservet said:

I have both and prefer the 22 t4. As others have noted it has a MUCH more immersive feel. The 20 t2 had a similar feel but one had to stick ones eye into it to get that feel, the 22's eye relief is much more comfortable. In my typical seeing there is no difference in sharpness between the 20, 22 and the 21 Ethos.

That said since I bought the 21 Ethos I don't use either the 20 or the 22. The Ethos is really superb, and I love its fov. It's the pinnacle of TeleVue design. I probably should sell the 20 and 22 but I find it difficult to get rid of such classic eyepieces. The 20 is comparatively small so it may get some use in my smaller scopes.

20180405_143307_resized.jpg

20180405_143359_resized.jpg

 

Edit: AFAIK the 20 t5 has been discontinued.

No the 20 T5 is still current.

And a 26 T5. Which in fl is next door to the 27 Panoptic, but not FOV. 

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Those were the days......

Actually, unless you are getting time under dark skies I think this much expensive glass is not needed, but it was still very nice :) 

FE9A6158-D896-4798-A51D-4BEE76DB1370.jpeg

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21 minutes ago, 25585 said:

No the 20 T5 is still current.

And a 26 T5. Which in fl is next door to the 27 Panoptic, but not FOV. 

It was discontinued last year along with the 26 t5, no longer listed on TeleVue web site. The only t5's being made are the 31 and the 16. They also discontinued the 12 t4, kept the 17 and 22.

http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=10#3160

Edited by laservet
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3 hours ago, 25585 said:

What are they like for eye placement & bean/cut-off issues?

The 22mm has an adjustable height eye guard so you can set it exactly where you went to help with eye placement. I have no problem with eye placement and find it easy to use but to be fair I am well used to it now.

The only eyepiece I find a bit tricky is a BST in my light set up but this is because I use it to plug a gap in my SLV set and I'm so used to the SLVs and their consistency that I never quite get used to the BST. 

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Being a star party of one, I have no experience of eps apart from those I buy myself, partly why my collection is growing (like Pinocchio's nose). Wishing upon various stars for the perfect optic. 

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