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Planning your ideal eyepiece collection


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An unexpected improvement in my finances has got me thinking about eyepieces and what I’d have in an almost perfect world. I’ve recently acquired a 10” dob so my thoughts are on 100 degree eyepieces and short focal lengths to make the most of the dob. Although I like the idea of Televue eyepieces, I don’t like the prices ;) My currently favourite Ethos alternative is the Lunt/APM HDC series. I think these are optically the same as the SkyWatcher Myriads. Lunt have just added a 13mm to this collection which isn’t available in the Myriads. Other focal lengths available are 20, 9, 5 and 3.2mm. I’m undecided on which of these I will need but am leaning towards either the 20mm or the 9mm as my first purchase.

For something to give me a good TFOV at low power, I like the look of the ES82 30mm. Again, good quality and a lot cheaper than a 31mm Nagler. This will be for those big diffuse nebulas like the the Veil and NAN.

High power is where I start to waiver. I love my 5 and 6mm BGOs. These are keepers but do I want the 5mm Lunt or maybe the Pentax XW 5mm? I also like the idea of the Nagler 3-6mm zoom. The TV zoom feels like good value to me in this case, especially at secondhand prices. If not the zoom then I feel like I need a good 4mm eyepiece for those rare nights of good seeing. 

It’s going to take a long time to assemble the team, especially when I consider needing/wanting 2” filters too. Still it’s fun to plan ahead.

Anyone else playing fantasy eyepiece collection or have thoughts on my planned line up?

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3 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Anyone else playing fantasy eyepiece collection or have thoughts on my planned line up?

... No, but I’m going to fetch the metaphorical popcorn, sit back and watch this thread run.

I mean, ‘fantasy’, ‘eyepiece’ and ‘thoughts’ all in the same sentence? ?

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Well, depending on how many scopes you have and the depth of your pockets, i once thought i had a dream collection but that fizzled when my scope shuffled around for other scopes and my eyepieces were not so suited for new scopes.

im willing to bet the dream collection is like chasing down the yeti!

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I’m constantly thinking of different eyepiece line ups for when finances recover.

I think you are thinking along sensible lines. I had the ES 20mm 100 degree and 30mm 82 degree and really liked them. The Lunts have an excellent reputation though.

The little Nag Zoom is very nice too, and handy for dealing in just the right mag.

Delites might be worth considering at high power, more comfortable than the zoom and with wider afov although obviously you won’t get the same mag coverage.

A fun problem to have :) 

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I have, over time, acquired the whole set of Explore Scientific 82° EPs.  I started with a few, and slowly but surely got them all.  I will say, without a doubt, I have used each and every one of them and really enjoy them all.  I'm using a C8, so it's not the same as a Dob, but I would certainly highly recommend them if you aren't on a budget to get Televue EPs.

The 30mm is an incredible way to surf around the skies, and the amount you can see in the EP is just incredible.  I finally, for the first time, got out and got some really good use out of the 4.7mm the other morning.  It takes some really good transparency to make it all work, but when it finally did I saw the planets like I never thought possible (I'll be writing a report soon).

Anyway, that's my opinion from the peanut gallery.  Take it as you will.

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A major benefit of 100 degree is you need fewer EPs! (So you can spend more per EP)

21-13-8 or 17-10-6 is Televue recommend line ups.

you also need to consider exit pupil. You don't really want more than 6mm exit pupil so if you multiply 6 by the f-ratio of your scope (focal length/aperture  = fratio) this gives you the maximum eyepiece size as your base setting.

(For me it's 6*f3.6 = 21.6 and that's why I sold my 31nagler and got the 21ethos.) I then worked back from there and added e13 and e8 as per Televue recommendations.

I discovered that I wanted a 10mm by using these three and identifying a useful gap.

I then pushed for a 6mm knowing that it had limited use but nice to have :) 

Work out the max power at around 300, I would not rush to get a nagler3-6 zoom myself as how often will you use it in the big dob? (what powers will it give you?). I would spend the big cash on the eyepieces that you know you need EVERY NIGHT. Start there and work back is my recommendation.

Alan

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Ok, you have some good advice already.   I’ve had a 10” Dob for some years, and have rethought my EP collection a few times.

You mention  TV 3-6 zoom. Of course, it’s a little cracker, I have one and it gets occasional use in the Dob. But unless you have super smooth hand tracking, it’s not so easy with a 50 degree field. Doable, but a huge difference from with 100 degree field. My high power with the Dob is a 4.8mm Nagler for 250x  for tight double stars, tiny planetary nebs and globular clusters on good nights. But my main high power is at 171x.........it’s more useful on more occasions.

At the low end, as already mentioned, exit pupil needs to be considered, more especially for use under a light polluted sky, where a big exit pupil can produce a washed out view. But as with all things, your mileage may vary.......

I’ve also been a victim of the well known   “paralysis by analysis “  syndrome...........?

Good luck !    Ed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Stu said:

I’m constantly thinking of different eyepiece line ups for when finances recover.

I think you are thinking along sensible lines. I had the ES 20mm 100 degree and 30mm 82 degree and really liked them. The Lunts have an excellent reputation though.

The little Nag Zoom is very nice too, and handy for dealing in just the right mag.

Delites might be worth considering at high power, more comfortable than the zoom and with wider afov although obviously you won’t get the same mag coverage.

A fun problem to have :) 

I did wonder about the ES100 range too. I’ve not seen any direct comparison between those and the Lunts. @jetstream and @Piero both report very favourably on the 20mm Lunt which has definitely pushed more towards that range, especially given the relatively low price. 

I hadn’t thought about Delites. Will have to investigate those too :) 

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7 hours ago, Hayduke27 said:

I have, over time, acquired the whole set of Explore Scientific 82° EPs.  I started with a few, and slowly but surely got them all.  I will say, without a doubt, I have used each and every one of them and really enjoy them all.  I'm using a C8, so it's not the same as a Dob, but I would certainly highly recommend them if you aren't on a budget to get Televue EPs.

The 30mm is an incredible way to surf around the skies, and the amount you can see in the EP is just incredible.  I finally, for the first time, got out and got some really good use out of the 4.7mm the other morning.  It takes some really good transparency to make it all work, but when it finally did I saw the planets like I never thought possible (I'll be writing a report soon).

Anyway, that's my opinion from the peanut gallery.  Take it as you will.

I’ve used my ES68 24mm has my finder/surfing eyepiece so I quite like the idea of having another ES replace it. That’s definitely my most used eyepiece. 

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2 hours ago, alanjgreen said:

A major benefit of 100 degree is you need fewer EPs! (So you can spend more per EP)

21-13-8 or 17-10-6 is Televue recommend line ups.

you also need to consider exit pupil. You don't really want more than 6mm exit pupil so if you multiply 6 by the f-ratio of your scope (focal length/aperture  = fratio) this gives you the maximum eyepiece size as your base setting.

(For me it's 6*f3.6 = 21.6 and that's why I sold my 31nagler and got the 21ethos.) I then worked back from there and added e13 and e8 as per Televue recommendations.

I discovered that I wanted a 10mm by using these three and identifying a useful gap.

I then pushed for a 6mm knowing that it had limited use but nice to have :) 

Work out the max power at around 300, I would not rush to get a nagler3-6 zoom myself as how often will you use it in the big dob? (what powers will it give you?). I would spend the big cash on the eyepieces that you know you need EVERY NIGHT. Start there and work back is my recommendation.

Alan

Thanks Alan. I’d not heard or really thought about needing fewer eyepieces with 100 degree eyepieces. With the increased cost per eyepiece I’ll certainly be more choosy!

The ES82 30mm would give an exit pupil of 6.35 in my dob. I think this should be good when used with filters. Will be interesting to see how it performs without filters. Maybe that exit pupil will make the background sky too bright?

The small FOV on the Nagler zoom had crossed my mind. I think this is why I feel less certain on what to buy with higher power eyepieces. I’m managing pretty well with the BGOs but the small TFOV can be challenging! A 4mm eyepiece will give me 300x so upper end of the zoom will probably not see much use

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33 minutes ago, NGC 1502 said:

 

Ok, you have some good advice already.   I’ve had a 10” Dob for some years, and have rethought my EP collection a few times.

You mention  TV 3-6 zoom. Of course, it’s a little cracker, I have one and it gets occasional use in the Dob. But unless you have super smooth hand tracking, it’s not so easy with a 50 degree field. Doable, but a huge difference from with 100 degree field. My high power with the Dob is a 4.8mm Nagler for 250x  for tight double stars, tiny planetary nebs and globular clusters on good nights. But my main high power is at 171x.........it’s more useful on more occasions.

At the low end, as already mentioned, exit pupil needs to be considered, more especially for use under a light polluted sky, where a big exit pupil can produce a washed out view. But as with all things, your mileage may vary.......

I’ve also been a victim of the well known   “paralysis by analysis “  syndrome...........?

Good luck !    Ed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The zoom seems like a tough call. Small FOV but lots of flexibility. I have plenty of time to overanalyse at least ;) 

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Neil I have bought many EPs over the years to match various scopes that I owned. I had a Skywatcher 10" Dob and used the TeleVue Ethos 21mm, 13mm and 8mm which was perfect for my DSOs work. I had a TeleVue Nagler 3mm-6mm zoom which was okay but I did not find it suitable for my manual Dob never mind the small eye lens.

Move forward several years and I purchased many of the ES82 EPs range - some of which I still have. I  now use the following on my 12" Dob and not much more - 20mm Myraid, 13mm Ethos and 9mm Myraid. I find the Myriad range very good quality and from what I read the Lunt is the same. I did have the Myraid 3.5mm but did not use it that much.

Neil personally if I was upgrading my EPs for the 10" Dob I would buy the Lunt 20mm first followed by the 13mm. If you really like the 100 degree FOV you could eventually buy the 9mm. I would use the the 5mm and 6mm BGOs as your high powered EPs.

 

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53 minutes ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Neil I have bought many EPs over the years to match various scopes that I owned. I had a Skywatcher 10" Dob and used the TeleVue Ethos 21mm, 13mm and 8mm which was perfect for my DSOs work. I had a TeleVue Nagler 3mm-6mm zoom which was okay but I did not find it suitable for my manual Dob never mind the small eye lens.

Move forward several years and I purchased many of the ES82 EPs range - some of which I still have. I  now use the following on my 12" Dob and not much more - 20mm Myraid, 13mm Ethos and 9mm Myraid. I find the Myriad range very good quality and from what I read the Lunt is the same. I did have the Myraid 3.5mm but did not use it that much.

Neil personally if I was upgrading my EPs for the 10" Dob I would buy the Lunt 20mm first followed by the 13mm. If you really like the 100 degree FOV you could eventually buy the 9mm. I would use the the 5mm and 6mm BGOs as your high powered EPs.

 

Thanks Mark! It’s really helpful to hear from someone who’s gone through the same upgrade path. I like the suggested upgrade path. 

Do you think the Lunt 20mm is as low as I need to go? No need for something like the ES82 30mm?

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6 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Thanks Mark! It’s really helpful to hear from someone who’s gone through the same upgrade path. I like the suggested upgrade path. 

Do you think the Lunt 20mm is as low as I need to go? No need for something like the ES82 30mm?

I think @Piero has/had both so is probably in a good position to advise. In my 8" dob I drop from a 14XW to a 28mm Nirvana with nothing in between. I was very close to buying the 20mm HDC during the sale but in the end decided I didn't need both it and the Nirvana (that I already owned). 

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12 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

I think @Piero has/had both so is probably in a good position to advise. In my 8" dob I drop from a 14XW to a 28mm Nirvana with nothing in between. I was very close to buying the 20mm HDC during the sale but in the end decided I didn't need both it and the Nirvana (that I already owned). 

Interesting. That’s a big gap in focal lengths! Do you ever feel like you’re missing an eyepiece in between?

How much did the price of the HDC 20mm drop in the sale?

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Hi Neil,

I can definitely recommend the Myriad 20mm (or its equivalents) in a 250PX. It's my most used EP, and quite often gets fitted at the start of the night and just stays there. Second fave is the ES 82 deg 8.8mm. I'm currently looking for something in between (to replace my 16mm, 68 deg MaxVision which has quite tight eye relief and relatively small fov). Don't yet have the funds for that one yet :)

Kev

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Neil personally although the 30mm ES82 is a nice EP I don't think you will use that often once you purchase the 20mm 100 degree EP. As Kev states above, your first EP for a night's observing of DSOs will be the 20mm.

I have a 30mm 70 degree EP which to be honest is never used.

When I go DSO hunting its always starts with the 20mm Myriad then depending on the object it will be either the 13mm Ethos or 9mm Myraid. If its a PN then I might use either the 6.7mm or 4.7mm ES82. When I went searching for the SN the other night it was 20mm, 13mm and finally the 9mm.

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25 minutes ago, kev100 said:

Hi Neil,

I can definitely recommend the Myriad 20mm (or its equivalents) in a 250PX. It's my most used EP, and quite often gets fitted at the start of the night and just stays there. Second fave is the ES 82 deg 8.8mm. I'm currently looking for something in between (to replace my 16mm, 68 deg MaxVision which has quite tight eye relief and relatively small fov). Don't yet have the funds for that one yet :)

Kev

 

Just now, Mark at Beaufort said:

Neil personally although the 30mm ES82 is a nice EP I don't think you will use that often once you purchase the 20mm 100 degree EP. As Kev states above, your first EP for a night's observing of DSOs will be the 20mm.

I have a 30mm 70 degree EP which to be honest is never used.

When I go DSO hunting its always starts with the 20mm Myriad then depending on the object it will be either the 13mm Ethos or 9mm Myraid. If its a PN then I might use either the 6.7mm or 4.7mm ES82. When I went searching for the SN the other night it was 20mm, 13mm and finally the 9mm.

Thank you both. That's really interesting. Looking at the numbers, a 20mm 100 degree eyepiece gives a TFOV of 1.67 with an exit pupil of 4.23. My ES68 24mm in my old 130mm scope gave TFOV of 1.81 with an exit pupil of 3.47. Obviously it's higher magnification with the 20mm in the dob, 60x vs 38x. It's starting to make sense to me that that 20mm would perform a similar role. The ES68 was always the most used eyepiece in 130mm scope. I was getting hung up on the higher magnification with the 20mm and thinking that would make if more difficult to find targets. I was forgetting that a 100 degree eyepiece gives the bigger TFOV to counter that. So much to learn!

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6 hours ago, alanjgreen said:

 

A major benefit of 100 degree is you need fewer EPs! (So you can spend more per EP)

 

That’s true generally but for planetary observing it is well worth having a few closely stacked eps, or a zoom to match the seeing. 

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My grand daughter owns the ES 24 68mm (which I borrow a lot!) and have compared it to the Lunt 20mm HDC, 30mm ES 82, 25mm TV Plossls etc. Firstly, the Lunt competes directly with the 21mm Ethos (yeah I have that too) which means the Lunt is near the top of the food chain.

The ES 24mm 68 is VG and I would say a hair better than my ES 30mm 82- in terms of contrast on filtered DSO, and other things -but- on super wide nebula the FOV the 30mm provides gives a better view IMHO and this is why I own it. Neil, if it were me buying a couple of eyepieces for your new dob it would be the 20mm Lunt HDC and I would also try the 13mm Lunt HDC.

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Stu said:

That’s true generally but for planetary observing it is well worth having a few closely stacked eps, or a zoom to match the seeing. 

Given, I have a 5 and 6mm BGO, would you suggest adding a 4mm EP rather than the 3-6mm zoom? I'd like to have a shot a Triton at some point so I think I'll need to get up to 300x for that. Plus 300x on the moon should be fun when seeing allows. 

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1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

Interesting. That’s a big gap in focal lengths! Do you ever feel like you’re missing an eyepiece in between?

How much did the price of the HDC 20mm drop in the sale?

No. I don't feel like I'm missing anything in between. Most things are quite small and fit in the XW FoV when I'm after a detailed view. Magnifications work out at 43.5X and 87X which in astronomical terms isn't a massive gap, the only issue would be in terms of exit pupil with nothing between 2.3mm and 4.7mm so possibly a 20mm might give a better exit pupil when using an OIII filter. 1.4X steps were in my initial plans so there was a space specifically for a 20mm eyepiece but when it came to it I didn't buy it leaving me with 5,7,10,14,28.

I think (!!) the sale price dropped to €199, and coincided with the US "Black Friday" sales.

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16 minutes ago, jetstream said:

My grand daughter owns the ES 24 68mm (which I borrow a lot!) and have compared it to the Lunt 20mm HDC, 30mm ES 82, 25mm TV Plossls etc. Firstly, the Lunt competes directly with the 21mm Ethos (yeah I have that too) which means the Lunt is near the top of the food chain.

The ES 24mm 68 is VG and I would say a hair better than my ES 30mm 82- in terms of contrast on filtered DSO, and other things -but- on super wide nebula the FOV the 30mm provides gives a better view IMHO and this is why I own it. Neil, if it were me buying a couple of eyepieces for your new dob it would be the 20mm Lunt HDC and I would also try the 13mm Lunt HDC.

 

 

 

Thanks Gerry. Even at secondhand prices, the Ethos is a fair bit more expensive than the Lunt. I don't get the impression that the difference is in performance is as great as the difference in price. Would you say that was fair?

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3 hours ago, Ricochet said:

I think @Piero has/had both so is probably in a good position to advise. In my 8" dob I drop from a 14XW to a 28mm Nirvana with nothing in between. I was very close to buying the 20mm HDC during the sale but in the end decided I didn't need both it and the Nirvana (that I already owned). 

 

2 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Neil personally although the 30mm ES82 is a nice EP I don't think you will use that often once you purchase the 20mm 100 degree EP. As Kev states above, your first EP for a night's observing of DSOs will be the 20mm.

I have a 30mm 70 degree EP which to be honest is never used.

When I go DSO hunting its always starts with the 20mm Myriad then depending on the object it will be either the 13mm Ethos or 9mm Myraid. If its a PN then I might use either the 6.7mm or 4.7mm ES82. When I went searching for the SN the other night it was 20mm, 13mm and finally the 9mm.

 

Hi Neil, as said by other members the 20 HDC is very good both optically and ergonomically. Also, the eyecup is an improvement against TV eyepieces in my opinion. I had the 30 ES which was sold because the 20 HDC was used more, is optically better (the 30 ES is a good eyepiece don't get me wrong), and is considerably lighter. This was with an F6 dobson. With a F4.7 dobson I would go straight with the 20 HDC, as Mark suggested. 

Again, as Mark suggested, I'd also advise to get the 20 HDC first. With a F4.7 dobson, I would get a 9 HDC afterwards (assuming that you like 100 deg views) rather than the 13mm, simply because the latter will give you almost 2mm exit pupil. With these eyepieces, I would forget a 2" barlow / powermate.  

Anyway, the 20 HDC is really a great eyepiece. It's also a pleasure to use in my refractor, showing nearly the whole Orion's belt in the FOV. The background sky in both my dob and refractor is neutrally dark (like TV eps), not grey as some eyepiece I have tried. The edge is also clean, allowing you to see the telescope coma (a bit noticeable at the edge in <=F6 scopes, but not disturbing). I am not obsessed with 100 deg views, but this is a very fine eyepiece. If I didn't have the Docter and the Zeiss zoom to play with, I would probably get some other focal length.. 

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