Telescope shopping

[JRHolder]

Hello All 

 

I have had a deep interest in astronomy since I can remember! I currently run with a hand me down Tasco 302911 D=114 F5 Reflector with a H20mm Eyepiece it has rickety wooden legs held together with bolts, wing nuts and washers (made in China), it's terrible 

I am in the market for a new scope, I have absolutely no idea what I want! So me and my good lady headed down to a local telescope shop... I came away more confused than ever before, I even needed a drink afterwards!. The guy was talking me down the GOTO route... this actually sounded pretty good as the scopes are very compact grab and go types, which I thought could be a great step forward. These are the models he mentioned:

CELESTRON 127 SLT GOTO

CELESTRON 102 SLT GOTO 

The reason he mentioned them is because he was getting some in at a good price, £250 meaning I was able to get GOTO technology at a budget price whereas usually it would be £400+

Also, he said it could be a baby step into astrophotography, as this is something I already have an interest in as my partner is a photographer.

My budget is perhaps £500ish, although in the near future it would be much more... I am torn between the two models and can't seem to find too much info. I am undecided if I am a reflector or refractor guy as I'm not experienced enough to make a definitive decision. I know a Refractor may be a bit less maintenance as no collimation required, so perhaps better to chuck in the car and head to a local dark sky site? The guy mentioned that these scopes are very adaptable i.e new eyepieces etc?

I am looking for something to reignite my interest and give me something decent to look at.

 

These are my thoughts/questions:

1. Refractor could be a good future spotting scope and perhaps used for terrestrial viewing?

2. Would a reflector provide crisper images?

3. Could I find bigger bang for the money?

4. Is the Celestron GOTO a pain in the bum?

5. For a an extremely affordable £250, is GOTO worth it?

6. Is their another brand I am overlooking?

All advice greatly appreciated 

[Demonperformer]

Are you a person who likes to "hunt down" objects (the chase is part of what lights your fire) or do you want to spend your time observing the objects? If the hunt is part of the fun, then avoid GOTO, you can get much more impressive instruments for your cash.

Both of those scopes come with alt-az mounts (the move right-left & up-down). If you seriously get into astrophotography, you will end up buying an equatorial mount (one axis aligned to the earth's axis, so it only rotates around one axis). One of these will pretty much take you out of your budget, but if it is a serious ambition, this is something of which you should be aware. I own a 102 and have used it for basic AP on its mount, but this is severely limited. Both in terms of exposure duration and the fact that it does not have a fully corrected lens (only two colours reach focus at the same point instead of all three). And I would not exactly describe the mount as "stable".

You would need a special diagonal to turn the refractor into a terrestrial instrument (or learn to use it while standing on your head )

Just generally, I would do a search in the supplier reviews section for the company you have spoken to ... if they are selling the 102 off for £250 ... they say if something sounds too good to be true ... FLO price £399.

What are your main passions? eg Do you want magnificent views of the planets? Do wide open clusters do it for you? Or faint nebulae? All of these things will have a bearing.

Also what is your light pollution like? Will you want to be able to transport to a dark site?

Sorry to throw a lot more questions at you like this, but the answers will help us give you more tailored advice.

[alanjgreen]

1 hour ago, JRHolder said:

Also, he said it could be a baby step into astrophotography, as this is something I already have an interest in as my partner is a photographer.

Both the mentioned scopes come on AZ mounts which are great for VISUAL astronomy.

If you are really intenting to go for astro-photography (almost a completely separate hobby) then I would not go for either of these 2 scopes.

You need to first of all buy the book "making every photon count" and read what astro-photograpy is all about

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

 

But your budget is way too small for astro-photography...

 

Here are the EQ mounts.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-mounts/celestron-advanced-vx-mount.html

 

Here is the 80ED refractor. Great starter scope for photography. Check the images forums and see what the 80ED can do...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/skywatcher-evostar-80ed-ds-pro-ota.html

 

For visual bang for buck then you wont do better than an 8 inch dobsonian.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

If you want a great VISUAL scope with goto within budget then you need to go second hand or get the 127SLT you mentioned. Celestron goto is simple to use and that price is a great price. Other alternatives would be

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az-gti.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-150p.html

 

[mikeDnight]

Just a couple of ideas!

Large enough to be serious but not too large to be burdensome! 

You'll need a mount and tripod with the 102 Star Wave below.

[Charic]

Already mentioned above, and one of the best value and capable scopes out there ( when conditions allow - conditions affect all scopes! )   is the 8"  (200P) Skywatcher Skyliner.
Having no idea of what your wanting for now, I would spend some time discovering and learning about this particular scope. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html 

Welcome to the SGL.

[JRHolder]

21 minutes ago, Charic said:

Already mentioned above, and one of the best value and capable scopes out there ( when conditions allow - conditions affect all scopes! )   is the 8"  (200P) Skywatcher Skyliner.
Having no idea of what your wanting for now, I would spend some time discovering and learning about this particular scope. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html 

Welcome to the SGL.

Many thanks for your reply! It is a minefield . I will look at this scope and read all reviews. I haven't as yet considered a Dobsonian, how transportable are they? I have a VW Caddy van and a car but most probably will be using from home, although I do have access to a nearby dark sky location.

Thanks again

[JRHolder]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

Just a couple of ideas!

Large enough to be serious but not too large to be burdensome! 

You'll need a mount and tripod with the 102 Star Wave below.

I will check these out thanks  The EQ3 mount looks far more stable than the SLT mounts.

[alanjgreen]

15 minutes ago, JRHolder said:

I will check these out thanks  The EQ3 mount looks far more stable than the SLT mounts.

There are "problems" to be overcome for visual use with EQ mounts. With the 150 reflector you will need to keep repositioning the eyepiece and potentially rebalancing the scope for EVERY target.

EQ is great for photography. AZ rules for visual.

The EQ3 may look great but it is at the lower end of the range of mounts you should be considering, if you go with the eq3-2 then expect to have to upgrade to a better mount in the future! It's generally given away free on starter scopes  

Check out the mount specifications and "max payloads" of each mount and compare to the weight of the scope and eyepieces etc. 

Also consider the size of the scope, the longer they are then you have to balance them and they can be impacted by wind and the environment around the scope.

Youre going to need a mount that " has motors and can track a target"  to take longer exposure photos 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq5-pro-synscan-goto.html

or Celestron VX (linked above)

a manual mount is no good to you unless you go Visual. 

Consider where you are going to STORE all this stuff when not in use too.

Start small and get to grips with what you are doing  

Buy the book and have a read before spending your budget on the wrong thing

[Charic]

21 minutes ago, JRHolder said:

I haven't as yet considered a Dobsonian, how transportable are they?

About 27Kgs fully assembled and will fit  inside a Fiat 500 ( Mount on front seat, scope across the back seat )  Your caddy should be ok.
I can do a forearm lift and take this  whole scope out into the garden, it's a small garden! but if your not comfortable with that weight, then transport the scope in two halves, like any other scope!
For me, this scope is used from a seated position, and my 8mm and 12mm BST Starguider eyepieces work very well on this scope  ( this would also be my first suggestion for a comfortable and affordable eyepiece upgrade ).

To get the best results  from this scope ( any other scope too, will be from that darker site ) Its as if by magic, how much better my scope is away from man-made lights and the city.

If it works well from home. it will blow you away at the darker site.

[JRHolder]

2 hours ago, Demonperformer said:

Are you a person who likes to "hunt down" objects (the chase is part of what lights your fire) or do you want to spend your time observing the objects? If the hunt is part of the fun, then avoid GOTO, you can get much more impressive instruments for your cash.

Both of those scopes come with alt-az mounts (the move right-left & up-down). If you seriously get into astrophotography, you will end up buying an equatorial mount (one axis aligned to the earth's axis, so it only rotates around one axis). One of these will pretty much take you out of your budget, but if it is a serious ambition, this is something of which you should be aware. I own a 102 and have used it for basic AP on its mount, but this is severely limited. Both in terms of exposure duration and the fact that it does not have a fully corrected lens (only two colours reach focus at the same point instead of all three). And I would not exactly describe the mount as "stable".

You would need a special diagonal to turn the refractor into a terrestrial instrument (or learn to use it while standing on your head )

Just generally, I would do a search in the supplier reviews section for the company you have spoken to ... if they are selling the 102 off for £250 ... they say if something sounds too good to be true ... FLO price £399.

What are your main passions? eg Do you want magnificent views of the planets? Do wide open clusters do it for you? Or faint nebulae? All of these things will have a bearing.

Also what is your light pollution like? Will you want to be able to transport to a dark site?

Sorry to throw a lot more questions at you like this, but the answers will help us give you more tailored advice.

Hello Demonperformer, thank you for such a detailed reply. The GOTO was a new concept for me as the hunt down is part of the fun, especially for viewing only. I am not too caught up on the Astrophotography side at this moment, so the auto tracking will perhaps not benefit me at this stage. I suppose it is more bang for buck as you mention.

Going on to the mounts, I have read reviews that the mount shakes as you mentioned in your reply. In my research I understand that the mount is as important as the scope.

As for the supplier, they have been going for many years and seem very reputable. They purchased excess christmas stock that another big retailer wants to offload, so therefore the price is at a reduced rate... I'm not too fussed of the GOTO personally  

 

As for main passions, I suppose seeing wide open clusters and faint Nebulae excited me more...although I have a keen interest in planetary too.

 

Light pollution is okish.... We live on the edge of a small but growing town however dark sky locations are not too far away (Cotswolds).

 

Thanks again for your reply! 

[Charic]

17 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

There are "problems" to be overcome for visual use with EQ mounts. With the 150 reflector you will need to keep repositioning the eyepiece and potentially rebalancing the scope for EVERY target.

EQ is great for photography. AZ rules for visual.

+1

I'm with alanjgreen here, and have witnessed this myself. I first started out with the Celestron 127EQ,  yet the skyliner ( for me) can't get any easier! therefore when the weather and conditions allow, I spend more time ' looking ' through the scope  than I do ' adjusting' the scope!

[alanjgreen]

24 minutes ago, JRHolder said:

Hello Demonperformer, thank you for such a detailed reply. The GOTO was a new concept for me as the hunt down is part of the fun, especially for viewing only. I am not too caught up on the Astrophotography side at this moment, so the auto tracking will perhaps not benefit me at this stage. I suppose it is more bang for buck as you mention.

Going on to the mounts, I have read reviews that the mount shakes as you mentioned in your reply. In my research I understand that the mount is as important as the scope.

As for the supplier, they have been going for many years and seem very reputable. They purchased excess christmas stock that another big retailer wants to offload, so therefore the price is at a reduced rate... I'm not too fussed of the GOTO personally  

 

As for main passions, I suppose seeing wide open clusters and faint Nebulae excited me more...although I have a keen interest in planetary too.

 

Light pollution is okish.... We live on the edge of a small but growing town however dark sky locations are not too far away (Cotswolds).

 

Thanks again for your reply! 

If you are siding towards Visual and you want to see "faint" stuff then 8" reflector would be a great start. The 200p dob is hard to beat in this regard. 8" is the aperture the opens up many of the fainter targets.

Just check the physical size and work out where you will store it when not in use.

Plan to buy a telrad or similar "finder". The standard straight through is a neck breaker  

Plan to buy "turn left at Orion" (book), 200+pages of objects and how to star hop to find them, sketches of what to expect to see in small scope...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/telrad-finder-astronomy.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/turn-left-at-orion-book.html

 

[JRHolder]

20 minutes ago, alanjgreen said:

There are "problems" to be overcome for visual use with EQ mounts. With the 150 reflector you will need to keep repositioning the eyepiece and potentially rebalancing the scope for EVERY target.

EQ is great for photography. AZ rules for visual.

The EQ3 may look great but it is at the lower end of the range of mounts you should be considering, if you go with the eq3-2 then expect to have to upgrade to a better mount in the future! It's generally given away free on starter scopes  

Check out the mount specifications and "max payloads" of each mount and compare to the weight of the scope and eyepieces etc. 

Also consider the size of the scope, the longer they are then you have to balance them and they can be impacted by wind and the environment around the scope.

Youre going to need a mount that " has motors and can track a target"  to take longer exposure photos 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq5-pro-synscan-goto.html

or Celestron VX (linked above)

a manual mount is no good to you unless you go Visual. 

Consider where you are going to STORE all this stuff when not in use too.

Start small and get to grips with what you are doing  

Buy the book and have a read before spending your budget on the wrong thing

Alan many thanks again for your response. I am going to drop the whole astrophotography for now and just focus on visuals and enjoying the hobby, so I am looking for bang for buck I suppose.. I don't want to waste it on the afore mentioned GOTO technology getting bad scope with the gadgets, where I could get a more capable scope within the price.  

Budget wise, initially I said £500... This of course could be much more, I just want to whet my interest and build upwards.. I don't want a 4K+ telescope in the corner I hang coats on.

All replies from all of you are really helpful!  

[Cosmic Geoff]

4 hours ago, JRHolder said:

CELESTRON 127 SLT GOTO

CELESTRON 102 SLT GOTO 

You don't say what scopes these are, as there is potential ambiguity.  If the 127 is the 127 Maksutov, unless you definitely don't want a Maksutov or a GoTo you should grab this with both hands. If you check the regular price you will see why - I believe this normally retails for over £400 now, and the OTA is worth around £250 on its own. The tripod is more wobbly than one would like, but on the other hand it is very portable, and quite usable so long as you can put up with its deficiencies, and the GoTo mount works quite well. I have used mine for various tasks (including spotting planets in daylight) still use it and have no plans to dispose of it.

Similarly with the 102, whatever it is, it is clearly a bargain at £250. If it's a 102x500 mm achromat, that's a nice widefield scope and very portable. I have one, and have no  plans to dispose of it.

To be frank, both are starter type scopes that you would supplement with a bigger and more specialized telescope later, but from you comments I suggest that this is exactly what you ought to buy.  The best way to find out what kind of scope you want is to buy a scope and use it to see how it suits you. You have already tried a small manual... You could probably resell either of these offers and recover most or even all of your outlay. You can spend £250 on an upmarket eyepiece ...  and BTW a mount with satisfying rigidity like the EQ-5 will cost you £250 or more, without the telescope. Any major astronomical brand will deliver, provided you buy something suitable for its intended use.

If you want to spend £500, I suggest you give some thought to whether you want to go the manual or GoTo route.  Do you want to look for things or at  them? Personally having experienced GoTo I tried a large manual Newtonian, found it almost unusable by comparison and soon bought an expensive SCT GoTo of the same aperture. The latter remains my favourite instrument.

[JRHolder]

16 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

You don't say what scopes these are, as there is potential ambiguity.  If the 127 is the 127 Maksutov, unless you definitely don't want a Maksutov or a GoTo you should grab this with both hands. If you check the regular price you will see why - I believe this normally retails for over £400 now, and the OTA is worth around £250 on its own. The tripod is more wobbly than one would like, but on the other hand it is very portable, and quite usable so long as you can put up with its deficiencies, and the GoTo mount works quite well. I have used mine for various tasks (including spotting planets in daylight) still use it and have no plans to dispose of it.

Similarly with the 102, whatever it is, it is clearly a bargain at £250. If it's a 102x500 mm achromat, that's a nice widefield scope and very portable. I have one, and have no  plans to dispose of it.

To be frank, both are starter type scopes that you would supplement with a bigger and more specialized telescope later, but from you comments I suggest that this is exactly what you ought to buy.  The best way to find out what kind of scope you want is to buy a scope and use it to see how it suits you. You have already tried a small manual... You could probably resell either of these offers and recover most or even all of your outlay. You can spend £250 on an upmarket eyepiece ...  and BTW a mount with satisfying rigidity like the EQ-5 will cost you £250 or more, without the telescope. Any major astronomical brand will deliver, provided you buy something suitable for its intended use.

If you want to spend £500, I suggest you give some thought to whether you want to go the manual or GoTo route.  Do you want to look for things or at  them? Personally having experienced GoTo I tried a large manual Newtonian, found it almost unusable by comparison and soon bought an expensive SCT GoTo of the same aperture. The latter remains my favourite instrument.

Hello Cosmic Geoff. This is the classic example of what happens when I send a message after a glass of wine!  The afore mentioned 127 is actually a 130 newtonian.. My sincerest apologies not only to you sir but also the previous people that took their valued time to reply to my previous messages.

"You don't say what scopes these are" to re clarify these scopes are as follows NEXSTAR SLT 130 Newtonian/102 Refractor GOTO 

"The best way to find out what kind of scope you want is to buy a scope and use it to see how it suits you" This resonates well with me as I want to dip my toe in to some degree  but not blindly follow a shop owners advice with a financial interest? With that said I have to start somewhere as you say  

"I suggest you give some thought to whether you want to go the manual or GoTo route.  Do you want to look for things or at  them?" Similarly, the shop owner felt I would find instant enjoyment with GOTO, I could spend less time looking and more time viewing and enjoying.  

Regards Justin

 

[JRHolder]

2 hours ago, Charic said:

+1

I'm with alanjgreen here, and have witnessed this myself. I first started out with the Celestron 127EQ,  yet the skyliner ( for me) can't get any easier! therefore when the weather and conditions allow, I spend more time ' looking ' through the scope  than I do ' adjusting' the scope!

Many thanks for your input Charic!  

[happy-kat]

5 hours ago, JRHolder said:

............astrophotography, as this is something I already have an interest in as my partner is a photographer..

This makes me think there is a lot of camera gear you may already own, so why not whet the astrophotography itch with the Skywatcher Star Adventurer, you will always then have a highly portable solution for imaging at home or at dark sites. You may already own suitable tripod legs for it.

Link here

[happy-kat]

This is a long discussion thread on the star adventurer with plenty images interspersed through out.

Link here

Just suggesting to take a look at the links, your budget can just about do that and a visual option too.

[JRHolder]

1 minute ago, happy-kat said:

This is a long discussion thread on the star adventurer with plenty images interspersed through out.

Link here

Just suggesting to take a look at the links, your budget can just about do that and a visual option too.

Many thanks happy-kat I will review your links "This makes me think there is a lot of camera gear you may already own" she has more photography equipment than dresses and shoes! It's a passion shared though.. not the dresses and shoes but photography!...Honest  

A wealth of equipment at my/our disposal

[Demonperformer]

8 hours ago, JRHolder said:

Hello Demonperformer, thank you for such a detailed reply. The GOTO was a new concept for me as the hunt down is part of the fun, especially for viewing only. I am not too caught up on the Astrophotography side at this moment, so the auto tracking will perhaps not benefit me at this stage. I suppose it is more bang for buck as you mention.

Going on to the mounts, I have read reviews that the mount shakes as you mentioned in your reply. In my research I understand that the mount is as important as the scope.

As for the supplier, they have been going for many years and seem very reputable. They purchased excess christmas stock that another big retailer wants to offload, so therefore the price is at a reduced rate... I'm not too fussed of the GOTO personally  

 

As for main passions, I suppose seeing wide open clusters and faint Nebulae excited me more...although I have a keen interest in planetary too.

 

Light pollution is okish.... We live on the edge of a small but growing town however dark sky locations are not too far away (Cotswolds).

 

Thanks again for your reply! 

Based on this response, I would echo responses above that something like a 200mm dob would be a "no-brainer". Your budget might stretch to a 250mm dob, but (having owned one in the past) I would caution you to see one before you buy. They can be a big beast, which I personally found very difficult to get outside. Others have not had this problem and I guess it would depend on your circumstances/where you will keep it/where you will observe from - hence have a look first. I would say this would almost certainly not be a problem with the 200mm.

[Stu]

A 200P Dobsonian does sound like an excellent choice for you to get started. Not too big, not too small and quite manageable in the car to get it to a darker site.

Within your budget you would be able to get a couple of upgraded eyepieces and possibly a UHC filter to help with observing nebulae. The Telrad suggested is a very sensible addition too, for finding objects without the help of Goto.

With much camera gear at your disposal, you could also perhaps buy a StarAdventurer mount to take some long exposure widefield shots and get started on the photography side without a scope. Wider fields require less accurate tracking so are a little easier to do.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astronomy-bundle.html

[JRHolder]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

A 200P Dobsonian does sound like an excellent choice for you to get started. Not too big, not too small and quite manageable in the car to get it to a darker site.

Within your budget you would be able to get a couple of upgraded eyepieces and possibly a UHC filter to help with observing nebulae. The Telrad suggested is a very sensible addition too, for finding objects without the help of Goto.

With much camera gear at your disposal, you could also perhaps buy a StarAdventurer mount to take some long exposure widefield shots and get started on the photography side without a scope. Wider fields require less accurate tracking so are a little easier to do.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astronomy-bundle.html

Thanks Stu!

I am gearing towards the Dobsonian, having read numerous reviews it seems an excellent choice! 

The skyadventurer is a cracking idea got all the equipment at my disposal ready to get struck in. We have numerous DSLR’s and a ton of lenses.

 

[happy-kat]

As video is used for planets and the Moon you can use a dob for that. Fiddly but possible. You capture as object drifts across the field of view. If you have a canon 550d in your collection even better as does 1:1 video on crop mode.

[JRHolder]

Hello All

Firstly, many thanks for all your help, advice and support. It has given me a great stepping stone into the hobby of astronomy and has created a positive outlook. What a great lot you ALL are 

An update, after much over thinking I got myself into a state of purchasers limbo. I was banging my head against a wall. I had a blinding deal of GOTO  Celestron SLT technology in the back of my mind. However, optics was at the forefront of my mind, sacrificing technology over optical capability was the sensible option.

I eventually decided on the Skywatcher 8" Skyliner Dobsonian. I was torn between the 200P and the 250PX, but decided that portability could be a factor, so went with the smaller of the two (I can always upscale at a later stage if needed). I ordered with FLO Monday 7 AM and it arrived bang on 9 AM Tuesday. I was shocked how fast it arrived! However, the person most shocked was my long suffering partner Kate who could not believe the size of the package (no pun intended) 

With plenty of room in my budget I also decided after the advice on this thread to purchase a Telrad finder with the DOB, and after seeing the finder scope I am extremely grateful of that advice! Thank you.

The Skywatcher Skyliner 200P was very simple to build, Collimation only very slightly off. With a Cheshire collimator (also purchased by FLO) it was simple to improve with a few minor tweaks and youtube help! I attached the Telrad to the right of the lousy spotting scope with some cable ties before I decided on a final position. I figure the view finder scope could be improved by an angled RAICI in the future.

The box from FLO contained a sticker "may contained clouds" made me chuckle .  Call it luck, we had a clearish sky, the first night in a little while.

I went straight for the jugular.. Orion where you at baby! M42 very easy to locate being spring (and factoring in not the greatest of viewing conditions) the constellations were relatively prominent, Orion to the south east Leo to the left of that and Ursa Major slightly behind me.

In the supplied eyepiece I was surprised to see a bunch of feint stars and very visible clouds surrounding them... although very grey? Any way I can see more colour? However extremely impressive..I tested out the 10mm supplied EP, not as good, so reverted back to the 25mm and enjoyed the view.

I just enjoyed panning around the sky looking at bright objects and not so bright objects. The 25mm was my favourite, gave me a wider FOV, however the Pliedes seemed to not fit in it very well?

I can see myself outgrowing the manufacturer supplied Ep's pretty soon, so any advice on those would be very welcome. I am interested in DSO and Planetary viewing. Give me a shopping list guys! 

Turn Left at Orion book on its way! Going back to the Astrophotography, we have a solid uber heavy beast of a Manfrotto tripod (to take a large format camera) and all the other equipment, so will get a skywatcher adventurer in time and go on a complete different tangent with that side of things.

Anyway, thank you all for your much appreciated input and recommendations ,I won't bang on any more.

Many thanks

Justin