To Moravian G2-8300 or not, that is the question :-)

[Jkulin]

I currently have an Atik 383+ but because of the back focus of 55mm that is required from both of my SW Esprits, it is preventing me to going down the OAG route with Atik and ultimately that is the route that I want to take.

If QSI had still been trading then I think I would have had to take a serious look at the QSI683 vs. the Moravian G2-8300, yes I know that Atik have taken over the QSI astro arm, so I could wait for them to relaunch which I am told will be a few months yet or I could go for the G2-8300.

If I did wait for Atik to launch the QSI range then I may have a problem using my existing 2" LRGB and NB Optolong filters as I want a 7 position 2" Filter wheel because it is a PITA swapping filter wheels/Filters over besides which again would be another expense that I really don't want at this present time.

Moravian has a new Mk2 model of the G2-8300 due out which offers a number of improvements, apart from which they do make a 7 position 2" Filter wheel and OAG that keeps to the 55mm back focus.

So can I ask your thoughts and if there are any other models/makes of camera that i should look at?

Yes, I did do a search, but that was when QSI were still manufacturing, I understand that they used a Portuguese manufacturers and that Atik may well continue to do so.

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

[swag72]

I use a QSI683 and Moravian G2-8300 side by side. I really do rate the Moravian when compared directly to the QSI. The cooling on it is 'almost' as good as the QSI, and certainly better than some I've had experience with. It's an easy camera to use, I use it with SGP and the drivers work fine. If it was the only camera I had, the 5 position internal filter wheel would be a problem for me. I do really rate the all in one package of the QSI though..... probably enough to hang onto seeing what the Atik offering will be or watching the second hand sales on ABS. The QSI's do come up from time to time, I bought a second hand QSI690 earlier this year. 

The only makes I considered when I got the camera were QSI and Moravian.... nothing else cut the mustard for me (within my price range!) If you are feeling very flush you could consider a FLI or Apogee camera (there was a FLI on ABS last week, not sure if it's still there - Thatw ould be worth a look) 

I don't notice any real world difference between the QSI and Moravian data either - Which is probably useful to know.

[drjolo]

Do you also consider CMOS cameras, or CCD is your choice? There are short connectors available for both QHY163 and ASI1600 that can fit OAG with wheel in 55mm distance. 

[Jkulin]

Thanks Sara, exactly what I was after knowing.

I thought you had both, so it is good to hear that the Moravian matches up.

Yes the five position internal wheel would be a problem for me, that was why I was pleased to hear that I can use a 7 position external 2" wheel and still achieve back focus.

I did see the FLI on ABS, but hesitated after funnily enough chatting with Peter Shah when I was round his home last month and he said that you have to send them back to FLI for recharging of the gas for routine servicing(can't remember if it was Argon or not), he said the same as you yesterday about the Apogee, but after seeing the prices decided my wife would probably tell me to sell one of my cars to fund and that ain't going to happen :-)

What sort of temperatures are you achieving out there as the Atik does hesitate to get to -15?

Thanks drjob, I'm not really looking at CMOS for now, In my research I think there is still a lot more development needed and I don't have the time to be a guinea pig, but thanks all the same.

[swag72]

Temperature wise I run all year round at -15 degrees......that way I use a calibration frames library that I can use for a while regardless of season.

[Jkulin]

Thanks Sara, yep I run at -15 as that all I ask, but just sometimes when doing my flats inside it takes time for it to get there. My calibration frames are all done at -15, but mine don't probably take as long as yours as 30 min subs are not really going to happen where I live and with my mount.

[swag72]

In the summer it can take a while for me to get to -15 degrees and I can use quite some power as well........ I don't use darks for this sensor, so the calibration frames will take me no longer than yours  

[Jkulin]

So do you just use flats and bias's are the CCD's that good not to require darks?

[swag72]

Yes I use just flats and bias and also a bad pixel map. I use Astropixelprocessor for the pre processing and calibration - It's very easy. T get your BPM though you will need 5 darks to start with, then that's it

[davew]

2 hours ago, Jkulin said:

I currently have an Atik 383+ but because of the back focus of 55mm that is required from both of my SW Esprits, it is preventing me to going down the OAG route with Atik and ultimately that is the route that I want to take.

If QSI had still been trading then I think I would have had to take a serious look at the QSI683 vs. the Moravian G2-8300, yes I know that Atik have taken over the QSI astro arm, so I could wait for them to relaunch which I am told will be a few months yet or I could go for the G2-8300.

If I did wait for Atik to launch the QSI range then I may have a problem using my existing 2" LRGB and NB Optolong filters as I want a 7 position 2" Filter wheel because it is a PITA swapping filter wheels/Filters over besides which again would be another expense that I really don't want at this present time.

Moravian has a new Mk2 model of the G2-8300 due out which offers a number of improvements, apart from which they do make a 7 position 2" Filter wheel and OAG that keeps to the 55mm back focus.

So can I ask your thoughts and if there are any other models/makes of camera that i should look at?

Yes, I did do a search, but that was when QSI were still manufacturing, I understand that they used a Portuguese manufacturers and that Atik may well continue to do so.

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

The Moravian website has had the 7 position filter wheel and OAG ( 55mm ) showing for quite some time now ( Over a year I think ). Ian King has pictures of one on his site and I think Zoltan at 365 knows about them. Have you specifically asked either of them ?

The last I heard is that it all came assembled and ready in the box. In fact I don't think they sell the filter wheel separately.

http://www.gxccd.com/art?id=441&cat=1&lang=409

I used to run my Mk1 G2-8300 at -25 all year.

Dave.

[davew]

I look again and IKI seems to be showing a G3.

It seems odd if Moravian are no longer doing the 7 wheel kit for the G2.

Dave.

[Jkulin]

Hi Dave,

Yes I had a long chat with Zoltan yesterday and he is enquiring when the new G2-8300 is going to be available.

Indeed I knew they had the 7 position 2" filter wheel available and I needed to check that the external FW combines with the OAG still kept to a back focus of 55mm.

From what I can gather the 7 position 2" is only available as an external and there is no restriction as to whether it is sold with the G2 or not, thus one of the reasons for chatting with Zoltan.

[davew]

Things may have changed then. Can't think why Moravian didn't run it passed me first !!   They must have changed their ideas about selling the wheel on its own.

The external filter wheel was used with the narrower body cover. The OAG ran on the filter wheel with the spacer removed.

If Zoltan can't help then Moravian are very quick with their responses to email.

Dave.

[Jkulin]

Well I have bitten the bullet with Zoltan at 365 and pre-ordered the new G2-8300 MkII, Zoltan reckons about 8 weeks before I get it.

Here's the link to the new model: - http://www.gxccd.com/art?id=515&cat=52&lang=409

I've ordered it with an OAG and the 7 position 2" FW, it should tidy up my cables as the FW runs off the camera, thus reducing two cables and I shouldn't have to keep changing the Atik FW from LRGB to NB, back focus was perfect at 55mm which suits my two Esprits, once Zoltan sends me the total then will pay a deposit and sit patiently twiddling my fingers. I was going to go for the new build Atik QSI's but figured that will be months off yet and I really wanted to sort the OAG route as I couldn't with my current 383/EFW2 with the Esprits.

So hopefully will have the 383, 2xEFW2, 2 QHY5-11M (Have changed to Lodestar x2's) guide Cameras plus a few more bits and pieces that should help offset the cost.

[Adam J]

Let me know if and when you come to sell the 383L+

[Jkulin]

3 hours ago, Adam J said:

Let me know if and when you come to sell the 383L+

Will do Adam

[Droogie 2001]

Good luck with the new camera. Just read through the spec differences between my Mark 1 and 2. 

Aside from shorter download times (will save me 6 secs an image...) and adjustable adapters there does not seem to be a huge difference. I do like the new look of the Mark 2 though.

If they are priced the same as the Marks 1 then all good. Unfortunatley I cannot justify trading in my Mark 1 for a Mark 2.
It's interesting to see Moravian aren't rushing out the latest and greatest CMOS chip but instead evolving their exisiting cameras. 

[Jkulin]

Zoltan advised the Moravian will be charging 15% more for the new cameras, apparently the OAG and FW are newly designed as well, not sure what the differences are.

If I had the Mk1 then I wouldn't be changing, but as the change is imminent I would have been a bit silly to go for the Mk1 rather than the Mk2.

[ollypenrice]

On 3/1/2018 at 13:55, Jkulin said:

I currently have an Atik 383+ but because of the back focus of 55mm that is required from both of my SW Esprits, it is preventing me to going down the OAG route with Atik and ultimately that is the route that I want to take.

If QSI had still been trading then I think I would have had to take a serious look at the QSI683 vs. the Moravian G2-8300, yes I know that Atik have taken over the QSI astro arm, so I could wait for them to relaunch which I am told will be a few months yet or I could go for the G2-8300.

If I did wait for Atik to launch the QSI range then I may have a problem using my existing 2" LRGB and NB Optolong filters as I want a 7 position 2" Filter wheel because it is a PITA swapping filter wheels/Filters over besides which again would be another expense that I really don't want at this present time.

Moravian has a new Mk2 model of the G2-8300 due out which offers a number of improvements, apart from which they do make a 7 position 2" Filter wheel and OAG that keeps to the 55mm back focus.

So can I ask your thoughts and if there are any other models/makes of camera that i should look at?

Yes, I did do a search, but that was when QSI were still manufacturing, I understand that they used a Portuguese manufacturers and that Atik may well continue to do so.

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

You mention 'both' your SW Esprits. If using a dual rig you won't be able to use an OAG for  reasons Sara has previously pointed out.

Do you really need an OAG to guide refractors? I use a guidescope to guide my TEC at 0.9"PP without issues.

Olly

[swag72]

Yes..... forget OAG with a dual rig ??

[Jkulin]

Hi Olly, no, got no intentions of using a dual rig as my AZ probably wouldn't take it and my brain would be fried with double the amount of problems :-)

Sadly I don't have the option of an Obsy so apart from a permanent pier I have to strip down and put up for each imaging session (well I could put up an obsy but probably wouldn't be breathing after that as the only place to site one is in the middle of the garden and my wife is a feisty little Yorkshire lass), I'm trying to reduce down all the shopping and changing when changing scopes for different FOV's, so it would be great if I just had to unbolt the Camera, FW and Guide and just attach onto another scope.

I'm interested in what you have mentioned about not using an OAG with a refractor, can you enlighten me please as I hadn't given that any thought?

[Jkulin]

Well had word today that my Camera has finally been dispatched from Moravian, but sadly it will be at least 2-3 months before the FW and OAG arrive. ?

We have checked the back focus and I can just about with 2.6mm to spare use the camera with my current configuration of Atik EFW2, apparently I needed just the standard camera adapter as there is no need for the tilt adapter if you are using a Moravian FW.

I haven't got the final costs yet, but no doubt Zoltan will email me for money next week.

So what with the new camera arriving and hopefully my new iOptron CEM60 Mount you will all be facing weeks of cloudy nights ? don't blame me, I ordered it 3 months ago after being told it would be here early May!

[ollypenrice]

On 12/03/2018 at 22:23, Jkulin said:

Hi Olly, no, got no intentions of using a dual rig as my AZ probably wouldn't take it and my brain would be fried with double the amount of problems ?

Sadly I don't have the option of an Obsy so apart from a permanent pier I have to strip down and put up for each imaging session (well I could put up an obsy but probably wouldn't be breathing after that as the only place to site one is in the middle of the garden and my wife is a feisty little Yorkshire lass), I'm trying to reduce down all the shopping and changing when changing scopes for different FOV's, so it would be great if I just had to unbolt the Camera, FW and Guide and just attach onto another scope.

I'm interested in what you have mentioned about not using an OAG with a refractor, can you enlighten me please as I hadn't given that any thought?

There's no reason not to use an OAG with a refractor. OAGs offer the advantage of guiding on the imaging light cone, which is obviously best. However, it can sometimes be harder to find a star on which to guide. This problem can arise if you are shooting in poorer skies and outside the plane of the Milky Way.* Since refractors are normally very stiff, don't have mirror flop and are of  moderate focal length, I've always used guidescopes without issue and had a vast choice of guide stars. With a good modern guide cam I'm sure your setup will work like a charm.

Olly

* Also, the EQ6 mounts I have to lend out seem to thrive on very fast guide intervals of half a second, meaning bright guide stars are needed. The published PE of your mount suggests that much longer subs will be fine and have the advantage of averaging out the effects of the seeing.

[Jkulin]

Thanks Olly, that explains a lot.

With regards to the published PE did you mean my AZ or my new CEM60?

Note to self...I really must get out to see your skies and setup in the future ?

[ollypenrice]

12 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

Thanks Olly, that explains a lot.

With regards to the published PE did you mean my AZ or my new CEM60?

Note to self...I really must get out to see your skies and setup in the future ?

I meant the CEM. I look forward to reading about how this works out.

Olly