IC 1396 Elephant Trunk nebula, any joy?

[Hungrymark]

Has anybody had any luck with this? I've got a UHC and an OIII filter ordered and fancy a bit of nebula hunting. My kit is an 8" Skyliner dob, and I'm on the edge of a small town. For LP reference, I've seen M33 once through the scope, and the other night the Leo triplet and M105 group fairly low down. Bortle scale seems to be suburban/rural transition-ish, perhaps veering slightly towards suburban, so a sort of 4.5.

I can't find much helpful info on the web, mainly seems to be imaging stuff, for which I've got neither the kit, skill or inclination! 

[Tim]

Can't say I have tried for IC1396 visually, however from imaging it I do know it has several bright walls of hydrogen nebulosity, and these are usually fairly easy to pick up by eye, as well as some distinct double star groups that make it easy to orientate the nebula itself.

Have you tried the Rosette nebula NGC 2244 though? It is well placed at the moment and can look incredible through a UHC or OIII filter, loads of features to look out for and easy star patterns to follow.

[Hungrymark]

I've found the cluster in the middle of the rosette previously, but haven't yet received the filters so no sign of the nebula itself. It is on my list of filter-equipped targets though, along with some of the other probably-usual suspects, crab, owl etc. I was just looking at Mu Cephei the other night and noticed on the sky chart that the nebula was right next to it and that it looked fairly extensive, so was wondering! Cheers

[PeterW]

Ic1396 is huge and faint, if the rosette, North America and California are visible then have a go... don’t expect it to be easy. The elephants trunk is a dark lane cutting into one side.:: even harder. Definitely for very good sky conditions.

Peter

 

[jetstream]

What eyepiece do you use for large neb viewing? a 1.25" 32mm? A 30mm ES 82 or the 34mm ES 68 would be great in your scope, with and without filters. The California might give you fits but try the Rosette, Monkey Head as Peter mentions.

What filters did you get?

[Hungrymark]

UHC and an OIII, inexpensive skywatcher jobs for now. I've got a 32mm plossl EP that I use for deep sky. Cheers

[PeterW]

@jetstreammany of this type of objects can “give you fits” if the sky or kit aren’t just quite right! I think I have detected the truck... well two of us independently reckoned something was in the same place... not really a brilliant ID, but IC1396 was clear.

 

peter

[scarp15]

16 hours ago, Hungrymark said:

I've found the cluster in the middle of the rosette previously, but haven't yet received the filters so no sign of the nebula itself. It is on my list of filter-equipped targets though, along with some of the other probably-usual suspects, crab, owl etc. I was just looking at Mu Cephei the other night and noticed on the sky chart that the nebula was right next to it and that it looked fairly extensive, so was wondering! Cheers

M97, the Owl Nebula will be a good target for you to observe currently, use your OIII filter for this. Cepheus is not so suitably situated at present and as Peter, Gerry, Tim have remarked IC1396 is faint to detect visually. It is quite possible, using for example an UHC filter under dark transparent skies and when Cepheus is located at its highest elevation. I have been able to trace an expanse of faint nebulosity along the edge with the dark nebula feature B161, drifting downward from the Garnet star with my 14" dob, in 21.3 mag sky conditions. Objects such as the California are easier in relative terms, as mentioned, however I would advise that you take some time before considering approaching these. Perhaps a couple of seasons, towards gaining experience observing brighter nebula structures, such as the Owl nebula (with the filter) and as you mention M1. Later this year see if you can observe the Veil and then perhaps the North America and across to Cassiopeia for the Pacman. The large expansive nebulae of low surface brightness are feasible when you have gained more experience and only then if you can access dark transparent skies, when the object is suitably elevated, you have full dark adaptation and you are using the right equipment. Even so although you may detect certain aspects, many require a degree of concentration to comprehend in visual terms clarity in identification.     

[Hungrymark]

No worries, thanks for that. I've seen the crab and owl from my back garden without much difficulty, and there's a reasonably dark site ten minutes' drive up the road. Sounds like I'm being overly-ambitious but my rationale for the elephant trunk is that the northern view from my house is the least light-polluted and I fancy a diffuse nebula. At this time of year I don't know of much else in that direction? 

[scarp15]

Perhaps in that case, for a current northern view, though a bit low presently, try for NGC 281 the Pacman nebula a fairly bright emission in Cassiopeia, use an OIII filter.

[Hungrymark]

Thanks for the recommendation. Cassiopeia is in a good position from my garden. 

[jetstream]

I wonder if the Flaming Star in Auriga would be a good, but challenging object?

[Hungrymark]

High up too, hmmmm

[PeterW]

Nothing in the direction of IC1396.... Cepheus is second only to Cygnus for nebulae to track down: 

ced214 and ngc7822, bubble, cave, lobster claw and wizard

there are a number more, but then we are delving deeper into the Sharpless catalogue. 

Peter

 

[Hungrymark]

That's fine, I said I didn't know of much else in that direction. Thanks for the ideas ?

[PeterW]

Till a few years ago I had never thought much of Cepheus... few bright stars, hard to see from the city and with few Messier objects in.

Peter

 

[Hungrymark]

Yes, looking at a star atlas there's actually quite a lot there! Well, I took the UHC out for a test run last night but with a bright half moon sitting on Orion's head it was next to useless. I was hoping to have a go at the rosette. M42 through the filter looked worse than a dark night without, so I didn't even bother with IC 1396 haha. 

[Iainp]

Hi, just to add my experience: I tried for the Elephant's Trunk with a 16" scope from my urban / rural transition sky (SQM 20.39) a couple of years ago and got nothing. Last month, full of expectation,  I pointed my new 20" scope to it, with UHC filter, and got....nothing! I was definitely looking in the right place and spent a good half hour hoping for at least a glimpse but didn't even get a hint of it, though the nebulosity in the surrounding area was fairly apparent.  I conclude that this one is really very dependent on excellent skies. The only other conclusion is that I'm not as good an observer as I thought I was! I will try again when it's even higher up.  

Iain 

[scarp15]

9 hours ago, Iainp said:

Hi, just to add my experience: I tried for the Elephant's Trunk with a 16" scope from my urban / rural transition sky (SQM 20.39) a couple of years ago and got nothing. Last month, full of expectation,  I pointed my new 20" scope to it, with UHC filter, and got....nothing! I was definitely looking in the right place and spent a good half hour hoping for at least a glimpse but didn't even get a hint of it, though the nebulosity in the surrounding area was fairly apparent.  I conclude that this one is really very dependent on excellent skies. The only other conclusion is that I'm not as good an observer as I thought I was! I will try again when it's even higher up.  

Iain 

I think that you will need to be at least under a Mag 21 / NELM 6 sky and not attempt at this Twilight time of year. Certainly when Cepheus is overhead, employ a large exit pupil ocular - I use 5.84mm - 6.7mm exit pupil (with and without paracorr) and UHC filter, my own observations have been with a 350mm dob. Even so what you will see is detectable with direct vision yet very faint. The modern alternative is NV technology, but is of course a very expensive option.

[Selborne]

Cepheus has many interesting objects to view, however many of them are a real trail with visual observations, however astrophotography opens up what can be seen, I have as yet not had an attempt at the Elephants Trunk Neb, I will hopefully find the time and clear skies sometime towards the end of this month to have a go.  However, last week I did capture the Iris Neb, see below, very please with the shot.  it was 12 x 240s frames, no darks or flats, taken with my Sony A7Rii and Skywatcher 100 ED Pro Esprit Scope, stacked in Photoshop (Mean option).

As soon as I have the opportunity I will be having a crack at the Elephants Trunk Neb, I will let you know if I have been successful