Losing the love

[sockgoblin]

Im fed up with the frustration of trying to enjoy astronomy from my back garden. Before I begin I know that I am being unreasonable in expecting all of my neighbours and the population of Warrington specifically and Greater Manchester in general to consider me when they are turning outside lights on, but there isnt an intent ,interest , policy ,or a direction to reduce light pollution by governments, or in the wider population, outside of small groups of enthusiasts like you lot. Indeed they want more light because they are scared to death of violent crime.

The purchase of a 200p Dobsonian has only made it worse as now I am interested in trying for fainter objects . My skies are not dark ...no where near dark , and as more LED street lights have been rolled out around Cheshire the skies are getting noticably brighter. ( maybe they are not and Im just noticing the existing issue??) 

Ive built screens , Ive added setting circles, to help to search in the gaps between the visible stars, but its never dark. Ive stopped planning my star hops before I go out because I know that my initial expectations will collapse into a Muttley like muttering of damning my fellow humankind .

I know I should pack the van and drive out to a dark sight but just how often can you do that in practise.?

Sad but Im losing the love.

 

 

[happy-kat]

Sorry to read that. At least your heritage scope is highly portable if you go further afield. 

[iPeace]

LP cannot stop me. It's the clouds that are keeping my other pastimes current.

[SteveNickolls]

Hi sockgoblin,

Sorry to read your post on your plight. It is indeed grossly unfortunate that society has got to the state where streets and homes have to be lit up as they are. I does speak volumes about the greater proportion of people in such affected societies, more from a viewpoint of pity than of anger. I do wish a debate could be started by those 'names' with a toe hold in the astronomy-related media as after all they are educators able to put across a subject and spark an interest. 

There are partial solutions to the light pollution battle at the individual level but not all are possible or necessarily of interest and each person will need to take such steps as they can. Few are lucky to live in a truly dark location and need take little action except to keep watch for local land developments. These lucky few are, in the words of Richard Burton, 'getting fewer'. To travel to a dark site is possible for more people but not for most. The number of dark sites in the UK is almost a joke. For many a family holiday once a year at a dark location could be used to observe or image in snatches s weather permits. At home you can put up barriers, talk to neighbours to make your garden location a little darker but if you live in a populated area as most of us do you might have to resort to narrow band imaging or radio meteor detecting. At some point a degree of working under a problem sky is reached.

I think if you want to carry on that you will find a solution that works for you, I sincerely hope that you do find a way.

You aren't alone and people on SGL are here to listen and help.

Chin up.

Cheers,
Steve

 

 

 

[LukeSkywatcher]

"I know I should pack the van and drive out to a dark sight but just how often can you do that in practise.?"

Whenever its clear and you feel like it.

[Gina]

Hmm...  I may be "losing the love" myself or merely getting older...  Merely!!???  What's merely about it?

[sockgoblin]

Not giving up yet a while just need to find a spark.   ; )

[F15Rules]

I feel your pain, sockgoblin.

I am lucky, having moved to a rural Lincolnshire village with dark skies (compared to near Leicester, where I was before).

But the LED issue isn't all bad, unless you have one right over you..in which case it must be a nightmare. We had bright orange sodium lights in the village when we moved in in March last year. The nearest one was about 25 m away and cast a bright glow in all directions. Then, in about October the council installed new LED lights on the same lamp posts, and in my case, because the LEDs are directed downwards, it has made the sky all around the light, apart from right underneath it, about 80% darker, I kid you not.

If you are unlucky enough to have a street lamp(s) close to your house or garden, ask the council if they would install shades to deflect the light from you.maybe offer to make a modest contribution to the cost, it might be worth a few quid if it darkens your sky?

Good luck, and don't give up just yet. If all else fails, get in that van!☺

Dave

[Astro Imp]

I feel your pain. 

I live in an edge of village location where the sky is never really dark, nevertheless I get out as often as the weather allows, I shall be out later lunar observing. I know viewing from a darker location would be rewarding but that's just not possible.

Good luck.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Im going to start more Solar observing (white light and Hydrogen Alpha) because there are more clear days than nights. I may restrict my night observing to binoculars and sell my scopes.

[Gina]

I'm going for Ha solar too.

[LukeSkywatcher]

6 minutes ago, Gina said:

I'm going for Ha solar too.

If i do sell up, i'll probably keep my 70mm refract for both WL and Ha. If not, i'll buy a new refrac that will also allow me to do both. ST80 or similar.

I'll also keep my bins. 

Night time observing for me just has become a thing of the past. Weather,life etc. 

I havent lost my mojo. Im too long in this "hobby" to ever lose it. Im just approaching it from a different angle.

[Timebandit]

 

I know how you feel. Since these so called more friendly LED lights have been installed IMO now more light than ever and with all the other light pollution from houses, parks, commercial premises ect ect the sky seems to have a haze of light above it.

You can still observe but unfortunately you need to work around the problem (unless you have a key to the national grid and can switch off your town for an hour or two?). Make the most of what you can do ,and this amounts to lunar and planetary and some of the brighter DSO where light pollution has far less of an impact. You can still get a great deal out of the hobby by working around the light pollution problem to try and get the maximum benefit from what you can do rather than what you cannot do.

And for faint DSO try and get out say once a month to a dark site to put to the test your faint fuzzy knowledge ,and at a dark site those galaxy's and globs will pop to the eyes more. A tank of petrol will be so worth it.

I hope this gives you the ? back

 

 

[RichM63]

I reckon it is not about what you can't see, but more about what you can do with the circumstances.

OK so I am now lucky enough to live at a very dark site, right now Orion is 'popping' outside my front door naked eye. The draw back is, I forgot that I had parked the black ML slightly further up the courtyard and walked right into it. doh and owch.

There needs to be some less 'paranoiac' education about 'more light = better'. TV doc's, mini series', yada yada.

Here it is pitch black, can't see a hand in front of your face, best security that I can think of because any neerdowell would have to bring their own light and thus be spotted or shot.

We do have some laws about LP and how to stop it over here, but I guess that now goes out of the window over there.

[swamp thing]

2 hours ago, sockgoblin said:

I know I should pack the van and drive out to a dark sight but just how often can you do that in practise.?

 

I try to do exactly that once a month. 
It keeps me keen   I'm of the quality rather than quantity observers  

[Stu]

24 minutes ago, RichM63 said:

The draw back is, I forgot that I had parked the black ML slightly further up the courtyard and walked right into it. doh and owch.

Tee hee. I'm sorry for your pain but it did make I larf!!  Thanks for that, I needed it  

[Gina]

I think the light pollution has increased here in the last year or so.  It used to be dark enough that I could clearly see the Milky Way on most clear nights (when we got them) but now even on the odd clear night I don't seem to see it as clearly as i used to   This used to be a really dark site but I'm sure there are more lights now.

[scarp15]

It is about adapting to the circumstances. It is also about how you may approach your other life style interests, hobbies. My first big hobby until I was in my early 20's was fishing and since I was quite young, a life long interest in hill walking. Travel to numerous destinations is therefore quite a normal preoccupation. Visual astronomy is absolutely no different, I pretty much venture to the same places I may start a walk, just at night. Dark sky trips are though infrequent - once a month is good, sometimes only once every two months. If it goes to plan they are very rewarding though. If you are into camping then this is also a good way to participate. Yet I can still value home, there is Lunar and there is wide field and brighter clusters etc., it is integral. Stargazing at home can conjure all manner of issues, requiring you to adapt and yet enable you to thrive, by working out solutions.  

[Moonshane]

I feel your pain. Just took this from my kitchen window looking toward South East, being the darkest bit of the garden. It's my main motivation for moving to a house with a larger garden albeit North facing. It backs onto a wooded area and I think I can create a small obs tucked away at the end. My wife has reasons which outnumber mine so I think we'll be happy there. It has a workshop (sorry garage) too for making my dobs etc.

I took to solar and love it. My neighbour can shine their light all they like as nothing bests the sun for light pollution.

 

[laowhoo]

 

We know we're moving soon as we can (unconscionable taxes) and our only priority is darker skies. Also helps that my wife's favorite vacation ever was a week in dark New Mexico for a star party. Whether it's out west or a few hours away, it's our number one priority, and a Brayebrook Observatory article impressed me when we began, about being willing to move to observe. I took it very much to heart. Wish I could find it--was it C.J. Lord?--just to have again.

 

[scarp15]

Just been into my backyard to feed the rabbits. It does look really nice out there at least good enough for a session had I not been too tired. High brick walls, no local security lighting in the immediate neighbourhood, possibly even the local led's which have been dimmed a little might be helping, certainly proximity to the Town Moor, allotments and fields helps, no comparison to a dark site of course, but quite reasonable to sometimes make the most.  

[johnfosteruk]

I'd love to have a moan about the light pollution but it's too cloudy

Don't lose the love, ditto everyone else - focus on what you can do. Solar, planetary, lunar, doubles: there's plenty to do with those.

Try to get to a dark site more often but don't be downhearted if you can't get out. Take what you can get, be grateful for the opportunities when they arise and remember that even if you could get out for a 5 hour session every night of your life you still wouldn't run out of targets. So what's the difference between endless observing opportunities and limited opportunities? Either way you'll never finish your target list.

Also, when the transparency (more-so than the seeing) is good you'll be surprised what you can reasonably observe at home if you really set your mind to it. Astronomy is full of challenges so what do a few more matter?

[johnfosteruk]

2 hours ago, RichM63 said:

We do have some laws about LP and how to stop it over here, but I guess that now goes out of the window over there.

You have laws? Let me know if anybody puts up for sale please

 

[RobertI]

Light pollution is a depressing blight on our night skies, like you I long for dark skies, and I really sympathise. But to be positive, I am sure you will find a way to enjoy the night sky from where you are. My personal solution was to take up EAA (aka video astronomy), which cuts throught the LP rendering it irrelevant. I can pick up mag 20 galaxies using EAA from my back garden which is far from dark. If I want to do some visual I tend to go for binaries, clusters, planetaries and lunar, which require less dark adaption, less dark skies, and give tremendous observing pleasure. I also use bins for a quick glance late at night after all the neighbours have gone to bed. I hope you find a way that works for you, keep at it!  

[Cyril]

We have had our village converted to white LED, some are very bright and the one that shines towards the house was installed on an old lamp post that was angled upwards. A chat to our friendly council lighting department and they fitted a shade to the front of the lamp.

We now have, when it's not cloudy, very dark nights.