Which is the best telescope for Visual use Skywatcher 150p,150pl or a 200p dob?

[Revilo]

5 minutes ago, nephilim said:

For just visual I would also recommend a dobsonian. I mentioned EQ mounts as I was asumong you were wanting an easy way to keep the target in view for sketching as in a dob scope will need constant nudging to keep anything in view. 

If you look at  this site http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/browse.php you'll find good quality/well kept astro gear at a sensible price leaving u spare money for a couple of eyepieces. I use this site regularly & it's always been good.

Thanks for the link, I would like to do sketching but I’ll probably want to get my self familiar with the scope and sky first. Then gradually do some sketching, will it be impossible to do? 

[Charic]

14 minutes ago, Astro Imp said:

There is a lot of frustration star hopping if your skies don't show the guide stars easily. I started with a manual scope and moved to the set up shown in my signature and see more in one night than a month of finding my own way. It is still necessary to know the major signposts to get the GOTO setup so time with my manual scope wasn't wasted. 

Just my thoughts, I know others disagree.

One of the issues when star hopping, especially with a Newtonian/Dob, is the fact that folk have to compare three image formats, and therein lies some confusion, even before we discuss light levels? users have to contend with their own eyes, the view through the refractor (finder) and then finally through the Dobsonian, but given time and practice, it does become easier. If your guide stars are so dim that it makes for a difficult session, then how you going to see the fainter stars?

Having never tried a Go-To,  I'm limited to recommend, but do see some benefits, but like I mentioned earlier, a Go-To for me could be hopeless in my location as my Sky can be too bright, so yes, the scope could point me in the right direction, but  nothing too see, washed out by the brightness.? ( it really is that bad in Summer), but agree, if you want to see a lot of things in one night, from the right location and conditions allow, a prepared itinerary, and a few swift button presses, yes, you'll probably see more dedicated targets in one hour than I might see in one Year! if  that is, your  site and conditions allow.

I try to think things through ( don't always get it right?)  always looking at the bigger picture,  so what works for me, may not be so good for the next person and vice versa. Its not just about the equipment! there are so many variables, many only become apparent having spending time learning about this hobby.

The good thing about forums, SGL in particular, the end user has to analyse whats presented to them, and take whats appropriate. No-one can be held responsible if something they buy turns out to be a lemon! Only you yourself will know whats good, better, best and what, if anything let you down, it all takes time

[Charic]

32 minutes ago, Nyctimene said:

Observing seated will add at least 0.5 to 1.0 mag to your NELM (Naked Eye Limiting Magnitude). 

Stephan

Could you elaborate on this please!

[Revilo]

4 minutes ago, Charic said:

One of the issues when star hopping, especially with a Newtonian/Dob, is the fact that folk have to compare three image formats, and therein lies some confusion, even before we discuss light levels? users have to contend with their own eyes, the view through the refractor (finder) and then finally through the Dobsonian, but given time and practice, it does become easier. If your guide stars are so dim that it makes for a difficult session, then how you going to see the fainter stars?

Having never tried a Go-To,  I'm limited to recommend, but do see some benefits, but like I mentioned earlier, a Go-To for me could be hopeless in my location as my Sky can be too bright, so yes, the scope could point me in the right direction, but  nothing too see, washed out by the brightness.? ( it really is that bad in Summer), but agree, if you want to see a lot of things in one night, from the right location and conditions allow, a prepared itinerary, and a few swift button presses, yes, you'll probably see more dedicated targets in one hour than I might see in one Year! if  that is, your  site and conditions allow.

I try to think things through ( don't always get it right?)  always looking at the bigger picture,  so what works for me, may not be so good for the next person and vice versa. Its not just about the equipment! there are so many variables, many only become apparent having spending time learning about this hobby.

The good thing about forums, SGL in particular, the end user has to analyse whats presented to them, and take whats appropriate. No-one can be held responsible if something they buy turns out to be a lemon! Only you yourself will know whats good, better, best and what, if anything let you down, it all takes time

Whew, thanks for that, have realised why looking for what scope/ equipment to get there’s always something else to consider. And unfortunately the weather seems to be the biggest problem.

[Charic]

......Oh yes! the weather  far from perfect over the last six Months.

[Louis D]

I used my Dob without electronic aids for a couple of years before adding digital setting circles (DSCs) for push-to object finding.  I still have to track manually.  I was able to find practically all of the brighter/larger Messier and solar system objects.  On the other hand, I never could locate small objects like Uranus, Neptune, or most small planetary nebula until I added DSCs.  I still don't align them most nights because I know where most bright/large objects are in the sky based on guide stars now.  That's also handy when helping newbies at starparties locate the easy objects with their new scopes.

[cletrac1922]

2 hours ago, Revilo said:

Thanks unfortunately the collapsible dob is not within my budget which has to include the scope accessories etc. but I’ll be doing it mostly near my garden any way as I live next to a big field and isn’t that affected by light pollution.also thank you for the image gives me a rough idea about how big they can get have looked at videos but doesn’t really do it justice. Apart from the laser point is there any other major accessories I should consider when starting out.

Get a laser collimator

Simple to use, and down the track invest in additional eyepieces

When doing school and scout/guide group programs with club belong to, I use a 17mm wide angle eyepiece

Perfect for 5 - 7 yo's

Have enclosed pic taken solar eclipse back in 2012 using camera of Samsung phone to eyepiece

For solar viewing, use Baader filter paper

Leave large cover on scope, and just attached the Baader filter paper with sticky tape under small hole with cover small hole removed

 

 

[Charic]

3 hours ago, Revilo said:

........a rough idea about how big they can get have looked at videos but doesn’t really do it justice.

I liked this video although it doesn't actually show the 200P, you'll have to imagine where it fits? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDY8extsWH8
One thing it does show is the "all metal - rack & pinion"  on the 6", something I choose to point out to folk to avoid? their not as accurate as the Crayford, fitted to the  larger scopes, and even these can be upgraded? 

Also to maintain the accuracy and efficiency of these telescopes, the best tool and only tool you need to collimate the telescope ( aligning the mirror axis) is a Cheshire collimation tool. 35mm Film cap cases and Lasers do work, but the Cheshire toll will provide the least worries/issues.
An 8mm or 12mm eyepiece and your set to go, the supplied 25mm is good.

[nephilim]

2 hours ago, Revilo said:

Thanks for the link, I would like to do sketching but I’ll probably want to get my self familiar with the scope and sky first. Then gradually do some sketching, will it be impossible to do? 

Depends on the magnification your using, the higher the magnification the quicker it'll fly past. So a 6mm ep is going to show alot more detail on say Jupiter than a 25mm but it will be out of view before you can blink. DSO's on the other hand benifit from a lower magnification, around 25/30mm depending on the aperture of the scope. As a perfect example, a 32mm ep in a 20" scope would show fantastic detail in a DSO  (that's an extreme example though as not many can afford a 20" scope)

Imo though for sketching your going to need a mount that will follow the earth's rotation. This hobby is NEVER easy unfortunately 

Steve 

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, nephilim said:

Depends on the magnification your using, the higher the magnification the quicker it'll fly past. So a 6mm ep is going to show alot more detail on say Jupiter than a 25mm but it will be out of view before you can blink. DSO's on the other hand benifit from a lower magnification, around 25/30mm depending on the aperture of the scope. As a perfect example, a 32mm ep in a 20" scope would show fantastic detail in a DSO  (that's an extreme example though as not many can afford a 20" scope)

Imo though for sketching your going to need a mount that will follow the earth's rotation. This hobby is NEVER easy unfortunately 

Steve 

Or put it on an equatorial platform.

[nephilim]

7 hours ago, Louis D said:

Or put it on an equatorial platform.

I advised this earlier but the OP wanted a dob due to price & ease of use.

Steve

[alanjgreen]

58 minutes ago, nephilim said:

I advised this earlier but the OP wanted a dob due to price & ease of use.

Steve

Its NOT the same thing at all!

http://www.equatorialplatforms.com/

Equatorial platform is not an EQ mount.

[Revilo]

11 hours ago, Charic said:

I liked this video although it doesn't actually show the 200P, you'll have to imagine where it fits? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDY8extsWH8
One thing it does show is the "all metal - rack & pinion"  on the 6", something I choose to point out to folk to avoid? their not as accurate as the Crayford, fitted to the  larger scopes, and even these can be upgraded? 

Also to maintain the accuracy and efficiency of these telescopes, the best tool and only tool you need to collimate the telescope ( aligning the mirror axis) is a Cheshire collimation tool. 35mm Film cap cases and Lasers do work, but the Cheshire toll will provide the least worries/issues.
An 8mm or 12mm eyepiece and your set to go, the supplied 25mm is good.

Thanks.Have heard about the Cheshire collimating tool will have abit more of a look for it, I’ve just done some searching and found the Bortle scale and seen i live in a class 4. Would you recommend a light pollution filter ? Obviously i would need to test first but was just asking for an opinion.

[laowhoo]

 

At f6 (nearly) the Cheshire will be just fine. (We adapted a laser to an old film canister just b/c we had one lying around.) Pocket away this site for collimation

Collimation Myths

http://web.telia.com/~u41105032/myths/myths.htm

Collimating a Newtonian

http://web.telia.com/~u41105032/kolli/kolli.html

There are many others, but most are derivative of Nils. We opted for the Orion SkyGlow LP filter and it helps for our old sodium lights, but I hate using it and will probably move to the more restricted backyard.

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, nephilim said:

I advised this earlier but the OP wanted a dob due to price & ease of use.

Steve

I'm a little confused by your response.  Many folks put their Dobs on equatorial platforms.  If you remove the ground board and mount it directly to the top of the platform, it only raises it 4 to 6 inches.  You still use it just like a Dob, only it now tracks for an hour or so before resetting.

[Astro Imp]

15 hours ago, Charic said:

The good thing about forums, SGL in particular, the end user has to analyse whats presented to them, and take whats appropriate. No-one can be held responsible if something they buy turns out to be a lemon! Only you yourself will know whats good, better, best and what, if anything let you down, it all takes time

That is so true, unfortunately you only know if it will work for you after you've shelled out the readies.

[fiestazetecmk2]

200p dob.as said may be all you'l ever need.

IMHO.

[Nyctimene]

17 hours ago, Charic said:

Could you elaborate on this please!

Charic,

no scientifically founded elaboration, I'm afraid. It's an estimation I've made for myself, since I am using a proper observing chair; and I've found similar experiences and values in several forums (can't recall the exact sources). Perhaps it is just the possibility of observing very faint and challenging details in a DSO more comfortable and thus longer than before, that leads to this impression. What are your (and others) experiences and thoughts on that?

Attached a picture of my very comfortable and sturdy foldable observing chair (might be a rewarding DIY project).

Stephan

 

 

[Nyctimene]

4 hours ago, Revilo said:

Thanks.Have heard about the Cheshire collimating tool will have abit more of a look for it, I’ve just done some searching and found the Bortle scale and seen i live in a class 4. Would you recommend a light pollution filter ? Obviously i would need to test first but was just asking for an opinion.

Revilo,

Bortle 4 - you are a lucky man! Any light pollution filter would be, IMHO, a waste of money. Instead, spend your savings on a decent UHC or O III filter, to make the most of your certainly impressive skies.

A sight tube/Cheshire combo tool will help you with all steps of collimating. Barlowed laser for the final step of collimating the primary works fine, but does not add much accuracy in my f/4 traveldob.

Stephan

[laowhoo]

 

My experiences and thoughts, from a step ladder, are that you have something there (a chair). I'll be trying to develop a sitting platform from on high (4 feet tops). Thx. Don't suppose they make giant high chairs, maybe from the Benny Hill set?

[Revilo]

7 minutes ago, Nyctimene said:

Revilo,

Bortle 4 - you are a lucky man! Any light pollution filter would be, IMHO, a waste of money. Instead, spend your savings on a decent UHC or O III filter, to make the most of your certainly impressive skies.

A sight tube/Cheshire combo tool will help you with all steps of collimating. Barlowed laser for the final step of collimating the primary works fine, but does not add much accuracy in my f/4 traveldob.

Stephan

Hi Stephen, 

thanks for the tip, when looking at the dobsonian on FLO it’s shown this as a recommendation https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/premium-cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html would this be alright?

[Nyctimene]

7 minutes ago, Revilo said:

thanks for the tip, when looking at the dobsonian on FLO it’s shown this as a recommendation https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/premium-cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html would this be alright?

Yes, exactly. Looks very nice (mine is dull black). Price seems ok.

Stephan

[billyharris72]

20 hours ago, Revilo said:

I know it would be easier to have a goto Mount but for me I think finding objects by yourself is more rewarding and learn abit more about the sky but that’s just me though.

Overall I agree - learning your way around the sky is a rewarding activity in itself - but it can depend to some extent on sky quality. If you are not able to see the fainter stars needed for a star hop then it can get very frustrating, but if that drives you to look for darker skies it may be no bad thing. I find combining a red dot and RACI finder makes a big difference, as the RACI will pick up on the fainter stars and is also good for confirming you are in the right area in the event that you can't see your target through the eyepiece (all too common under light polluted skies).

For your budget I would go for an unmotorised 200mm Dob, as most people have suggested - that's a lot of telescope for a very reasonable outlay. Some kind of tracking is very helpful for planetary observing and also if you enjoy sketching, but it can wait. If you're reasonably handy one option might be a DIY equatorial platform. These are relatively inexpensive to make and can add a lot to high magnification viewing.

Billy.

[Revilo]

6 minutes ago, billyharris72 said:

Overall I agree - learning your way around the sky is a rewarding activity in itself - but it can depend to some extent on sky quality. If you are not able to see the fainter stars needed for a star hop then it can get very frustrating, but if that drives you to look for darker skies it may be no bad thing. I find combining a red dot and RACI finder makes a big difference, as the RACI will pick up on the fainter stars and is also good for confirming you are in the right area in the event that you can't see your target through the eyepiece (all too common under light polluted skies).

For your budget I would go for an unmotorised 200mm Dob, as most people have suggested - that's a lot of telescope for a very reasonable outlay. Some kind of tracking is very helpful for planetary observing and also if you enjoy sketching, but it can wait. If you're reasonably handy one option might be a DIY equatorial platform. These are relatively inexpensive to make and can add a lot to high magnification viewing.

Billy.

Thanks Billy, I think I’ve set my mind on getting a 200p dob after all the helpful comments. I’ll keep in mind about the equatorial Mount. And will take note of the RACI finder.

[Nyctimene]

1 hour ago, laowhoo said:

 

My experiences and thoughts, from a step ladder, are that you have something there (a chair). I'll be trying to develop a sitting platform from on high (4 feet tops). Thx. Don't suppose they make giant high chairs, maybe from the Benny Hill set?

The highest seat position of the Füssener Astrostuhl (astrochair) is 111cm (spanning with 7,5 cm intervals from 31 to 86 and 97 to 111cm). So I can observe comfortably seated objects up to about 70° elevation in my 18" f/4.5 Obsession dob (f.l. 2050 mm).

You can change the viewing position easily for lying and observing with binos, have a look:

https://www.intercon-spacetec.de/zubehoer/astronomie-zubehoer/stuehle/4889-ics-astro-stuhl-magnum-grau-hoehe-115-cm-mit-verstaerktem-sitzbrett.html

Stephan