Do you use a Zoom and if so, why?

[F15Rules]

On ‎21‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 12:20, Alan White said:

Having just bought my first ever zoom eyepiece a Nagler 6-3mm and being somewhat shocked at just how good the image is and easy it is to use has set me thinking;
how about another zoom in place of my fixed ones?

So who uses a zoom?

If you do, which one?

And why do you use it?

What scopes is this used with?

Thought it would be of interest to do this set of questions again.
 

Hi Alan,

Great thread ..

In answer to your questions:

1. I do! Seriously, someone who probably has limited viewing time, and wants versatility, great optics and simplicity to get the most from each session.

2. I use a Pentax SMC XL 8-24mm zoom which I bought originally new, and then sold, regretted it, and ended up buying it back! I'm going to keep it this time if I possibly can..

3. As in point 1, but to expand a little, I'd add:

• I spend too much time swapping eps in and out, and in the dark it would be very easy to have a disaster. So I prefer just 3 or 4 eyepieces to be on my accessory tray.
• I get a number of shorter (less than an hour) observing sessions, due to work commitments etc. So the least time setting up and putting away my gear, the more time I get viewing.
• I don't want to feel I am compromising too much optically. With the Pentax I don't feel I am compromising at all, other than the field of view. And as I use mainly a driven equatorial mount, I keep the object centred most of the time. If there is an optical quality difference between my other Pentax's (XL 7, 10.5mm, XF 12mm) my eyes won't show it to me.
• I use it in my FS128 and ED103s scopes.

Other comments:

• It's a very solid (beautifully made) eyepiece, so quite heavy, so be aware of that in terms of balance of scope. Not an issue for me. I've owned 3 other zooms, Tele Vue (Vixen) built, Baader and Leica Vario. In terms of solidity and heft of build, I'd rate them 1. Pentax 2. Tele Vue. 3. Leica. 4. Baader.
• It's waterproof to JIS Level 4, so has O ring seals inside. This can make the rotating adjustment feel a little stiff, especially when new. It's just a feature of the sealing mechanism. I use Baader Clicklocks with mine and find then that it is rock solid and turns in and out no problem - and it's probably worn in a little too, as most mechanical devices do.
• I have lately used this eyepiece a lot...in comparisons with my XL 7 and 10.5 eps, and my Vixen LVW 22mm, I can see NO degradation of the image when using the zoom. Contrast, sharpness etc are comparable to my eyes - only the field of view is smaller at lower mag settings on the zoom. The other night I looked at M42 at the 24mm setting, which is apparently only 38 degrees. The image was like an etching, SO sharp, and not in the least tunnel like. That said, I do prefer the LVW 22mm at this magnification, just because it is a 65degree field, almost double the zoom. As the magnification increases, the view widens out, and at the maximum 8mm it is 60 degrees, a really nice fov.
• At 8mm with the zoom on Saturday night, I could see both the E and F stars in the Trap quite distinctly in the zoom. I think that says it all.
• Finally, there is also a Pentax XF zoom 7-21mm. I owned one of these and absolutely hated it. It had great globs of CA on any bright object, and didn't look sharp to me at all. I have read similar thoughts on that eyepiece. HOWEVER: I have also read (a lot) that the XF zoom is superb for Solar viewing. I can't comment as I don't do solar, but it must be a case of horses for courses. I would not recommend the XF zoom for night time astro...which is odd because both the XF 8.5 and 12mm fixed length eyepieces are excellent for astro!

I have just reduced down my core eyepieces to:

• Pentax 7 xl (with William Optics 1.6x barlow nosepiece to give 4.37mm, which is almost x240 in my Tak), 65 deg
• Pentax 10.5mm xl ( I can't let this one go, it's just such a lovely all round ep), 65 deg
• Pentax SMC 8-24mm zoom, 60-38 deg - if I use the barlow nosepiece with the Pentax zoom, it then turns the zoom into a 5-15mm unit
• Vixen LVW 22mm, 65 deg
• TS Paragon 40mm 2", 69 deg

I feel I am very happy with just the above 5 eyepieces now. I could happily use just the zoom and the LVW for short sessions or to travel with..

HTH
Dave

 

 

[F15Rules]

16 hours ago, Stu said:

Overall true, but the Leica has 18mm eye relief and between 60 and 80 degrees afov which stacks up pretty well.

The Pentax SMC XL zoom has 20mm eye relief, same as the XW/XLs. The fov is smaller though, range from 38 Deg at 24mm to 60 Deg at 8mm. But PIN sharp to the edge at all settings in my scopes. I love it!?

Dave

[Timebandit]

 

Hello. I will go against the grain of this thread by saying I don't use a zoom and I don't have any plans to  get one at present 

 

1) It has taken me a number of years to get a collection of eyepieces that suit my personal preferences and to my price range. These eyepieces include Orthos plossl and NLV and Pentax XW in the main. I find these eyepieces suit the targets I desire and give great view's ,and to which performs well in the whole in all my scopes, so in essence are universal and I do not need a particular eyepiece collection for a particular scope. Therefore apart from maybe a quicker dial in advantage of a zoom, but Ortho are incredibly quick to change in and out when you get into the swing of it. And ultimately the Pentax XW are just so good in optical quality and fov.

2) the only way a zoom may work is the Nagler 3/6( but i understand the eye relief is limited on these and the fov is only 50d) and the Leica, Why ? Because when you have got quality eyepiece in your collection then the last thing you want to do is take a step backwards in quality. I have scopes as fast as f/4.5 and this is testing on eyepieces. The eyepieces i have now on the whole will cope with this fast FL and produce quality views. Why would I wish to take a step backwards? From what I have heard the nag zoom and Leica are supposed very good and probably the best of the Zooms on the market. But are they as good as say the XW , maybe or maybe not. But I doubt they are any better than the XW. To go to the ZOOM side on the Nagler and Leica would cost well over £1100 as I understand things. And then I have no guarantee they will best my existing eyepieces in sharpness and the fov. And the eye relief and fov difference a zoom may give  also I may not like ,and dialing in the zoom may also not be to my personal liking.

All I know at the moment I have a quality set of eyepieces that works for me. Therefore I have no plans to change a set of quality eyepieces that have taken me years to acquire and to which are very good, to try a zoom. As they say if it is not broken then why fix it.

 

 

[John]

1 hour ago, F15Rules said:

• At 8mm with the zoom on Saturday night, I could see both the E and F stars in the Trap quite distinctly in the zoom. I think that says it all....

 

The Pentax XL 8-24 does sound really good Dave

TBH though my cheap Orbinar 7.2 - 21.5 zoom shows E & F Trap really well with my fracs at the 7.2mm setting and that cost a wee bit over £50 delivered from Germany !

I'm starting to wonder where this low cost zoom is made - it's so good

The build is not up to Pentax of course but it's as good as a WO UWAN and similar so not shabby. In fact I wonder if it came from the same manufacturer as the UWANs / Nirvanas / Myriads - it's got a very similar finish to it.

Orbinar are a brand used by Seben of all things

I got it for use with my Lunt Ha scope but it's regularly in my fracs and 12" dob. For outreach I just take the zoom plus a Vixen NPL 30 and I'm covered

 

 

 

 

 

[F15Rules]

John,

That's impressive performance!

I think it's great that there seems to be a bit of a boost in the numbers of cheaper (but not nasty!) zooms on the market. Maybe most of them do come from the same factory, but the proof of the pudding is in the performance, and the drop in cost price and upping of low priced zoom performance will hopefully encourage more amateurs to add one to their eyepiece case - they do have their place IMHO.

Their is something quite liberating about not having to dither over which or how many eyepieces to get out for a session..one high power, a zoom and one wide angle low power, and off you go!?.

Dave

[Alan White]

Again, thanks folks, nice mixed comments and thought.

I will defend the Nagler 3-6 zoom and say the eye relief is OK for me,
but I like tighter eye-relief as I like to snuggle my eye into an eye cup, but not weld my eyeball to the eye lens.

[John]

When I switch from a 4mm ortho to my Nagler 2-4mm zoom the 10mm of eye relief and the much larger eye lens seem positively luxurious

If I then go to the Pentax XW 3.5mm I get a similar comfort boost

 

[Alan White]

5 minutes ago, John said:

When I switch from a 4mm ortho to my Nagler 2-4mm zoom the 10mm of eye relief and the much larger eye lens seem positively luxurious

If I then go to the Pentax XW 3.5mm I get a similar comfort boost

 

But the XW 3.5mm rather a lot larger and heavier than the other two John, does this not give balance issues as well as comfort?

[John]

13 minutes ago, Alan White said:

But the XW 3.5mm rather a lot larger and heavier than the other two John, does this not give balance issues as well as comfort?

Yes your are right Alan. The Nagler zoom is the eyepiece that I use most often for really high power observations.

[martinl]

Without glasses the eyerelief of the 6-3mm zoom is just about perfect with the eye cup extended. Very comfortable in actual use. 

Ironically, my main ergonomic problem with the zoom (if not using glasses) is its light weight. I usually balance the scope for my Deloses and accept that motions with the 21mm Ethos are less smooth. With the zoom the FOV is so small that rebalancing for acceptable motions is mandatory. 

[F15Rules]

2 hours ago, Alan White said:

But the XW 3.5mm rather a lot larger and heavier than the other two John, does this not give balance issues as well as comfort?

That's a good point Alan. In fact it was a factor in my letting my XW5 go, much as I liked it. 

I find that the 7mm is also a long EP, but acceptably so, whereas the 10.5mm XL is shorter and just about perfect☺.

Dave

[JeremyS]

6 hours ago, John said:

TBH though my cheap Orbinar 7.2 - 21.5 zoom shows E & F Trap really well with my fracs at the 7.2mm setting and that cost a wee bit over £50 delivered from Germany !

I'm starting to wonder where this low cost zoom is made - it's so good

Well, I'm willing to wager it is from the same factory as my Opticstar equivalent, John 

Jeremy

[Ricochet]

7 hours ago, F15Rules said:

 

• Pentax 10.5mm xl ( I can't let this one go, it's just such a lovely all round ep), 65 deg

If you ever change your mind on that let me know.

6 hours ago, John said:

I'm starting to wonder where this low cost zoom is made - it's so good

The build is not up to Pentax of course but it's as good as a WO UWAN and similar so not shabby. In fact I wonder if it came from the same manufacturer as the UWANs / Nirvanas / Myriads - it's got a very similar finish to it.

Assuming that it's identical to the Lunt branded version they are Barsta eyepieces. 

Barsta zooms

Barsta 82°

[John]

Looks indeed like a Barsta product. Interesting that Lunt feel that their branding makes the eyepiece worth twice the Optistar price and nearly 3x as much as I paid for my version.

Unless the Lunt is a higher spec version perhaps ?

 

[JeremyS]

9 hours ago, John said:

Unless the Lunt is a higher spec version perhaps ?

That's always possible John.

But my Opticstar zoom gave slightly better views than my Lunt (which was a good eyepiece nevertheless). Of course, I cannot generalise to all Opticstar and all Lunt models - only the ones I tested.

Jeremy

[25585]

21 hours ago, F15Rules said:

Hi Alan,

Great thread ..

In answer to your questions:

1. I do! Seriously, someone who probably has limited viewing time, and wants versatility, great optics and simplicity to get the most from each session.

2. I use a Pentax SMC XL 8-24mm zoom which I bought originally new, and then sold, regretted it, and ended up buying it back! I'm going to keep it this time if I possibly can..

3. As in point 1, but to expand a little, I'd add:

• I spend too much time swapping eps in and out, and in the dark it would be very easy to have a disaster. So I prefer just 3 or 4 eyepieces to be on my accessory tray.
• I get a number of shorter (less than an hour) observing sessions, due to work commitments etc. So the least time setting up and putting away my gear, the more time I get viewing.
• I don't want to feel I am compromising too much optically. With the Pentax I don't feel I am compromising at all, other than the field of view. And as I use mainly a driven equatorial mount, I keep the object centred most of the time. If there is an optical quality difference between my other Pentax's (XL 7, 10.5mm, XF 12mm) my eyes won't show it to me.
• I use it in my FS128 and ED103s scopes.

Other comments:

• It's a very solid (beautifully made) eyepiece, so quite heavy, so be aware of that in terms of balance of scope. Not an issue for me. I've owned 3 other zooms, Tele Vue (Vixen) built, Baader and Leica Vario. In terms of solidity and heft of build, I'd rate them 1. Pentax 2. Tele Vue. 3. Leica. 4. Baader.
• It's waterproof to JIS Level 4, so has O ring seals inside. This can make the rotating adjustment feel a little stiff, especially when new. It's just a feature of the sealing mechanism. I use Baader Clicklocks with mine and find then that it is rock solid and turns in and out no problem - and it's probably worn in a little too, as most mechanical devices do.
• I have lately used this eyepiece a lot...in comparisons with my XL 7 and 10.5 eps, and my Vixen LVW 22mm, I can see NO degradation of the image when using the zoom. Contrast, sharpness etc are comparable to my eyes - only the field of view is smaller at lower mag settings on the zoom. The other night I looked at M42 at the 24mm setting, which is apparently only 38 degrees. The image was like an etching, SO sharp, and not in the least tunnel like. That said, I do prefer the LVW 22mm at this magnification, just because it is a 65degree field, almost double the zoom. As the magnification increases, the view widens out, and at the maximum 8mm it is 60 degrees, a really nice fov.
• At 8mm with the zoom on Saturday night, I could see both the E and F stars in the Trap quite distinctly in the zoom. I think that says it all.
• Finally, there is also a Pentax XF zoom 7-21mm. I owned one of these and absolutely hated it. It had great globs of CA on any bright object, and didn't look sharp to me at all. I have read similar thoughts on that eyepiece. HOWEVER: I have also read (a lot) that the XF zoom is superb for Solar viewing. I can't comment as I don't do solar, but it must be a case of horses for courses. I would not recommend the XF zoom for night time astro...which is odd because both the XF 8.5 and 12mm fixed length eyepieces are excellent for astro!

I have just reduced down my core eyepieces to:

• Pentax 7 xl (with William Optics 1.6x barlow nosepiece to give 4.37mm, which is almost x240 in my Tak), 65 deg
• Pentax 10.5mm xl ( I can't let this one go, it's just such a lovely all round ep), 65 deg
• Pentax SMC 8-24mm zoom, 60-38 deg - if I use the barlow nosepiece with the Pentax zoom, it then turns the zoom into a 5-15mm unit
• Vixen LVW 22mm, 65 deg
• TS Paragon 40mm 2", 69 deg

I feel I am very happy with just the above 5 eyepieces now. I could happily use just the zoom and the LVW for short sessions or to travel with..

HTH
Dave

 

 

Excellent selection. 

My ready case is same except XW apart from XL zoom, a 42 LVW & also 30 NLVW. 

The 22LVW is my hub ep. 

"I'm turning Japanese, I really think so"

[Alan White]

25585, will we ever know your name?

Love the link to some 1980's music, brought back the words straight away, but not the band name.
Google helped and it's 'The Vapours' 

'I'm turning Japanese
I think I'm turning Japanese
I really think so'

[Cinderhella]

Noobiedoo here!

Having just purchased a telescope and having read much information on eyepieces, I went on quite the hunt for the best ones for my rather limited budget and came across the Skywatcher 8-24mm zoom piece. Not only was it a fair bit cheaper than purchasing three separate pieces, but it also means less I've got to transport when I'm ready to take my first steps into the cosmos above.

It seems like such a small thing to be concerned about given kits and kaboodles take up more carry space for a wheelchair user, but small things are often the trickiest things to keep hold of when both your hands are otherwise employed, so that was one of the main reasons behind my choice of single eyepiece over separates. Then there was the time it takes to switch from one to another and back again. That's something I get to do plenty of times when I'm and about, such as going having to go down one curb and then go back up another. Those small few moments add up to a lifetime's worth of sighed frustration.

Not sure if I've answered, but there it is!

[Andromedoh]

I use a Baader zoom 8-24, its one of my most used eyepieces as it gives great views and no need messing about with cold hands. I pretty much just use the Baader zoom, a 32mm wide field and a 5mm planetary  

[melsmore]

I use a Vixen LV 8-24 lanthium zoom. It's my most used eye piece in TS80APO, C8, 8" F5 Newtonian and Maksutov 127. It's very good. I have some UWAN for when I want a wider field of view.