I don't like my 6mm

[domstar]

Hi everyone,

I have a set of Baader classic orthos for my Skywatcher 100ED. I've found that I always prefer the views from the 10mm to the 6mm. I think I see slightly more detail in the 6mm but the views are paler and less satisfying. The stars don't seem to be as sharp either.

My question is why? Is it that the 6mm is inferior to the 10mm in this range? or maybe 150x is pushing the limits of my scope? Maybe I need to be more skilled at focusing or is it something to do with exit pupil? Is it just me?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

[alanjgreen]

Could it be the tiny exit pupil?

6mm in f9 scope is 0.68mm

I can't enjoy an eyepiece under 1mm, just can't get comfy and observe  

...Ouch, it's only got 5mm eye relief! Makes my eyes water just thinking about using that...

[John]

The higher magnification will make the image fainter but larger. I agree that the 10mm Baader Classic Ortho is easier to view through and is, possibly, slightly better optically as well.

The scope is quite capable of operating at 150x or higher in fact but maybe the ortho design is not the way to get there for you ?

 

[mikeDnight]

Try using your 10mm along with a 2X barlow and see if the experience, although being higher power, is more comfortable than the 6mm for you.

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, domstar said:

I think I see slightly more detail in the 6mm but the views are paler and less satisfying. The stars don't seem to be as sharp either.

On extended objects like Jupiter, contrast seems less as the available light is spread out to magnify it more.  That might be what you're seeing.  I often drop back to lower powers despite the smaller image size to see if the image improves.

The stars may seem less sharp because you're getting close to revealing the airy disk of the stars with the 6mm.   Once the airy disk is revealed, the only point to increasing power is to try to reveal close companion stars by detecting an elongation of the airy disk.

[Mr Spock]

For comfort alone I'd advise something like a Vixen 6mm SLV. Optically not much to choose between them and an ortho but, 20mm of eye relief makes a huge difference.

[Timebandit]

 

Always make sure you put your scope out to acclimated to the outside ambient temperature. When you want the best high power views all these procedures help to obtain the maximum performance from you scope.

A 6mm should be well within the capacity of this scope. Seeing conditions can make a huge difference to what magnification of eyepiece that can be used that night or that particular time. So using the highest power eyepiece you have is not the best thing to do. You wish to use the highest eyepiece possible that gives you the " sharpest , and clean " view as possible. This can vary depending on viewing conditions.

Some people just do not like a small or tight fov and eyerelief, I use both Ortho and wider fov and high eyerelief. The Ortho design are sharp and great for the money. But they are not built for fov or comfortable eyerelief. So Barlow a lower magnification Ortho eyepiece can give you a higher magnification but with good eyerelief is one option. Or go for a more comfortable design such as the NLV/SLV. Or the IMO Ortho sharpness but great fov and 20mm eyerelief,Pentax XW range. Just so comfortable to use at higher magnification.

I hope this helps☺

 

 

[jetstream]

My recently purchased 6mm BCO offers good but not great views on DSO,planets and the moon. I have other shorter orthos that soundly beat it. I cannot say that all 6mm BCO's are this way however.

My copy of the 10mm BCO is superb, giving planetary/lunar views equal to the Docter 12.5mm UWA and it also goes "deeper" on faint galaxies.

[Paul73]

1 hour ago, Mr Spock said:

For comfort alone I'd advise something like a Vixen 6mm SLV. Optically not much to choose between them and an ortho but, 20mm of eye relief makes a huge difference.

Mr Spock is dead right! I have compared the two at f7.5. You need to be pretty hard core / not mind stabbing yourself in the eye whilst trying hard not to move muscle for the excellent views offed by the BCO. The SLV views Re as good and you can view all day!

Paul

[Charic]

6 hours ago, domstar said:

I have a set of Baader classic orthos for my Skywatcher 100ED. I've found that I always prefer the views from the 10mm to the 6mm. I think I see slightly more detail in the 6mm but the views are paler and less satisfying. The stars don't seem to be as sharp either.

My question is why? Is it that the 6mm is inferior to the 10mm in this range? or maybe 150x is pushing the limits of my scope? Maybe I need to be more skilled at focusing or is it something to do with exit pupil? Is it just me?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Could be? 

As good as they are, reputation wise, they just might not be 'your' type!

I bought the set, folk said they were good, reports suggest their good (  the only way to find out was to check for myself ). 

Now the last time they were used, I was looking at the Moon ( over a sodium street lamp!!!!!)  and whilst studying the smallest, ever-so-tiny crater, it was during that session  that I decided their just not for me, so I sold them.

Also, there may have been an issue with my 6mm ? ( I did inform the buyer that it was my belief that the 6mm was in need of a deep clean? ) but I've not had that confirmed. 

domstar, does your scope have an f/9 ratio?........I would suggest your 10mm is more closely matched to this ratio, providing the image/results you are experiencing,  and you state yourself, the view is better. The 6mm could be pushing the limits, 

[domstar]

Thanks for all the help everyone. To my shame, I'm probably not patient enough at the eyepiece yet to have a problem with eye relief. You lot have saved me shelling out on an 8mm for the time being and I'll spent more time with the barlow (I'll try not to get my fingerprints all over the glass in the dark). It's not often that a visit to this site makes me less inclined to spend money.

[Ben the Ignorant]

Sometimes I look at planets at excessive power for a while, to locate the features more easily thanks to their larger size. Then I reduce the power to benefit from less waviness and more surface brightness.

[Alan White]

The 6mm made me feel like I had welded my eyeball to it.
When not comfortable my observing goes badly.
Longer eyerelief works for me.
I now use a Nagler 3-6 zoom.
 

[Paul73]

How’s the eye relief and fov on the Nagler zoom?

I’m not a big fan of zooms, but for getting the best from the sky on planets / doubles, I can see that one makes sense.

I won’t be moving on my fabulous Delos 6mm, but for shorter...

Paul

[Alan White]

14 hours ago, Paul73 said:

How’s the eye relief and fov on the Nagler zoom?

It’s a comfortable 10mm or so, but feels better than that in use.  

I too thought zooms, path, rubbish........this ep has blown that notion to pieces, at 5mm it beats my Tak LE and I rather rated my Tak LE, has even made me think about a decent wider zoom to minimise my collection of EP, who would have thought that!

[Paul73]

Interesting. Thanks.

It won’t take up much space in the ep box... And the colour scheme matches.

Paul

PS. I have a couple of the Baader 8-24mm’s for solar work. They can’t compete with good fixed length eps. Some love the £££££ Leica offering which has a decent fov as well! Too rich for me though.

[John]

The Nagler zooms are not like other zooms ....

I use the 2-4mm Nagler zoom and am constantly surprised by how well it performs compared to orthos and the shorter Pentax XW's.

I'm tempted to get another (I've owned a couple in the past) 3-6 Nagler zoom despite having other very good fixed FL eyepieces covering that range. The variable magnfication at high powers is just so useful to squeeze the most from the seeing.

[Rocket_the_Raccoon]

...could be related to seeing, not the optics?

[Davesellars]

The 6mm Baader Ortho is my favourite for using for white light solar.  I’m not too keen on it though for DSOs because of comfort and longer time observing in one position needed and I’m not really an avid Lunar observer however I found the 10mm BCO excellent all round and comfortable to use for a long period of time.