Total newbie to VA/EAA

[A40farinagolf]

Hi,

I'm looking for a bit of general advice as I fancy having a go at VA and I can't decide on the way forward as I have too many options.

My current kit is listed in my signature, I chop and change my Astro equipment on a regular basis as that is one of the things I like about the hobby. (Fortunately my wife is very understanding so getting new kit is not an issue)

As a result I don't really master any one astro subject but I have fun using different kit which is the main thing. 

I don't have an EQ mount just an ioptron minitower pro. at the moment, I suppose ultimately I'd like to end up with reasonably portable set up that would allow me to do EAA, AP and visual.

Options:

1) Use my existing ioptron mount in AZ mode with a new EAA camera - probably a Atik Horizon (colour) with my 130mm and 80mm fracs.

2) Buy an ioptron IEQ45 Pro mount and use my modified Canon 600D (assuming it can do EAA) and Eagle core for control and guiding.  (unfortunately my budget won't stretch to a new IEQ45 and a new Atik Horizon)

3) Buy an ioptron CEM25P mount and an Atik Horizon (colour) and use with my 80mm frac.  and Eagle core for control and guiding.

What would you do? Different EAA camera? Different mount? Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

[Robrj]

You could try it first with your existing mount and camera to see what kind of results you get.   You'll probably get some edge artifacts, especially with the Horizon or your DSLR as they have a big sensor, but you can crop it out.  You could probably get away with up to 30 second exposures depending on what part of the sky you're looking at (East/West).  I've done up to 35s with my Celestron 130SLT (smaller sensor).   Though I have guided in the past, I don't guide on a regular basis.  For an EQ mount, depending on how good your polar alignment is, you should be able to get by without guiding up to 1 minute.

Your Canon should work with Backyard EOS and Astrotoaster/DSS.    This user has some tutorials on using his Canon cameras for Video Astronomy/EAA.  He typically does 30 second exposures so an EQ mount might be a reasonable option:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwRg2BjC54F8MEPAaXYsTCA/videos

[RobertI]

Agree with Rob, have a go with your existing stuff first, then perhaps you will get a feel for whether EAA is for you. Another really easy way would be to download Sharpcap (which I believe supports live stacking for EAA) and use your ASI120MC. Coupled to your 130 frac + reducer at F5.6 on your mini tower you have a really simple system and could capture some of the brighter nebuale and clusters and see what you get. I use a small chipped Lodestar (which I originally bought for astroguiding) and am really happy with it. The next step up for me would be the Ultrastar but the bigger chip introduces new potential challenges of coma, etc. 

[A40farinagolf]

Hi Rob,

Many thanks for your reply and I'll check out the youtube link.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Robrj]

6 hours ago, RobertI said:

Agree with Rob, have a go with your existing stuff first, then perhaps you will get a feel for whether EAA is for you. Another really easy way would be to download Sharpcap (which I believe supports live stacking for EAA) and use your ASI120MC. Coupled to your 130 frac + reducer at F5.6 on your mini tower you have a really simple system and could capture some of the brighter nebuale and clusters and see what you get. I use a small chipped Lodestar (which I originally bought for astroguiding) and am really happy with it. The next step up for me would be the Ultrastar but the bigger chip introduces new potential challenges of coma, etc. 

I don't think you'll see much of a problem with Coma even with the Ultrastar.  I've run my 8" f/4.9 Newtonian with a 0.7x focal reducer (f/3.6) and the stars still look okay:

 

Full resolution:  https://www.astrobin.com/full/270541/0/?real=&mod=

[shirva]

Another +1 on what rob and Robert have said,, try what you have already,, probably surprise you how well your kit works for EAA.

The utube videos are by a friend if mine Howie from Australia,, does a great job with his tutorial videos,, just does not sit still always trying something new,, he has just bought a new lens at Christmas so it will dslr related videos for a while ,, I think?

You can get a free trial of backyard eos I backyard Nikon and give it a go,, and most on this route usually use the freeware,, astrotoaster ,, dss to monitor and stack images.. one of the techniques I use myself.

Howie uses canon utilities instead of byeos and gets stunning results

I also have the zwo asi178mc and have it hooked up to sharpcap pro,, and it works fantastic as well,,, robin who developed sharpcap keeps making it better with each release,, so I would recommend sharpcap.

[RobertI]

1 hour ago, Robrj said:

I don't think you'll see much of a problem with Coma even with the Ultrastar.  I've run my 8" f/4.9 Newtonian with a 0.7x focal reducer (f/3.6) and the stars still look okay:

 

Full resolution:  https://www.astrobin.com/full/270541/0/?real=&mod=

That's good to know, I'll keep saving the pennies.....  

[London_David]

I agree with the advice above, especially to try the software which is free. In va you spend a lot of time working with it so if you don’t like it, that’s an issue.

For me, a good va experience is about speed; observing rather than gathering data and post processing. Ideally you want f5 or less on the scopes and you have a 905mm @ f7 and 500mm @ f6 which means longer exposures and slower live experience which introduces your mount issues. However, they’re certainly both usable for va. You just may find it trickier and less enjoyable.

However, a bit does depend on what you want to see. I’d use that as a first way to narrow down your options. If you want to see wide fields of nebula, that’s a different setup to galaxies. A small chip camera and 750mm scope will be fine for galaxies, but maybe less exciting for extended nebula. Large chip camera might make all the difference. If you haven’t already I It’s worth looking at astronomy.tools to see what you might get see in camera/scope combinations.

You should be able to do fine on the iOptron mount you have for va if you have a sensitive camera that can do short exposures and stack. I also recommend SharpCap for this. You should be able to test it with your asi120. 

If you’re really interested however, I’d come at it from a slightly different angle, especially if you like trying different equipment and your budget seems to be ~£2000.

Have you thought about keeping the mount the same and adding a fast newtonian to your collection? You could get an 8” 800mm @ f4 Quattro for ~£425. I like the ~800mm focal length for what you can see with it in va.

If you have a fast scope you won’t need to guide either, because you can keep exposures shorter and stack for much the same result .

There are lots of good cameras out at the moment and more coming out all the time. The atik looks good, especially with the software, but for me the current leaders are the asi290 for mono (~300) and the asi385 (~300) and asi294pro (~800) for colour, you would use SharpCap with those. In terms of tech, you’ll get more bang for your buck with the ZWO cameras.

Based on sensor specs and other cameras that use the same sensor (I’ve not used the atik) the will 294 perform better than then atik for va. I don’t know though, just comparing on specs and what you read on the forums can be dangerous. Either way, I have a hard time believing that it’s worth twice the price when you get the same basic hardware as in the asi1600. After looking for myself, I bought the 294Pro.

However, the atik software is meant to really great for va, and that may sway you, since as I said the experience is all about the software. That did make it tempting, but the cost increase is big.

What would I do? I’d buy an 8” Quattro and a 294pro and use your existing iOptron mount, that would be an great va setup for £1200 — less than the atik horizon alone. And it would give you totally new kit to try out.  

 

 

[London_David]

Just read this on the camera forum comparing the Atik Horizon and ZWO 1600pro — cameras that use the same sensor:

 

If you are tempted by the specific specs of the Horizon, it seems like the Horizon performs virtually identically to the asi1600pro — the extra ~£260 you are paying for is the Infinity software instead of SharpCap.