Once bitten twice shy

[RayD]

3 minutes ago, Stu said:

Knew I had seen this somewhere:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p7490_Vimech-EQ6-Wedge-for-fast-and-easy-alignment-and-more-stability-for-your-mount.html

What a great idea.

[derekf]

26 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

I should add, even with new or better bolts, you should not be using brute force to make adjustments!

Believe me you don't need too with these bolts and the poor design of the lower mount. Skywatcher should of addressed this problem years ago. They could of easily come out a lower mount mod for the northern hemisphere and made a really good mount great, also it would of saved you guys from my moaning 

The more i think about it, the more determined i am to stand my ground and not accept it. 

[derekf]

50 minutes ago, RayD said:

What a great idea.

there is a youtube channel with a guy fitting something like that. 

Search astronomyshed in youtube, he has loads of videos.

[RayD]

4 minutes ago, derekf said:

there is a youtube channel with a guy fitting something like that. 

Search astronomyshed in youtube, he has loads of videos.

Thanks Derek.  Yes I've seen many of Dion's videos, some are very good, but never seen a completely modded wedge for a specific mount.  Seems like a great idea.

Hope you get your issue sorted to your satisfaction.

[derekf]

1 minute ago, RayD said:

Thanks Derek.  Yes I've seen many of Dion's videos, some are very good, but never seen a completely modded wedge for a specific mount.  Seems like a great idea.

Hope you get your issue sorted to your satisfaction.

Thanks

[LightBucket]

1 hour ago, RayD said:

What a great idea.

That wedge has been around for a few years now and it is on the fourth or fith revision, it looks superb, but I think there are a few issues with it, hence it has not taken off like it should have done, Modern Astronomy also used to sell them, (and may still) he will know a lot more about the past issues and whether they are all sorted now..I personally love the idea and have thought about getting one, but for a permanent set up that only gets polar aligned or at least checked once or twice a year, it’s a lot of money....  

Edited January 14, 2018 by LightBucket

[RayD]

3 minutes ago, LightBucket said:

That wedge has been around for a few years now and it is on the fourth or fith revision, it looks superb, but I think there are a few issues with it, hence it has not taken off like it should have done, Modern Astronomy also used to sell them, (and may still) he will know a lot more about the past issues and whether they are all sorted now..I personally love the idea and have thought about getting one, but for a permanent set up that only gets polar aligned or at least checked once or twice a year, it’s a lot of money....  

Yes I can only see it being of major benefit to non-permanent set ups.  I've seen all manner of mods and kits etc. but this does seem the solution to resolving all inherent faults (assuming it is well made of course and does not have its own inherent faults).

[derekf]

8 minutes ago, LightBucket said:

That wedge has been around for a few years now and it is on the fourth or fith revision, it looks superb, but I think there are a few issues with it, hence it has not taken off like it should have done, Modern Astronomy also used to sell them, (and may still) he will know a lot more about the past issues and whether they are all sorted now..I personally love the idea and have thought about getting one, but for a permanent set up that only gets polar aligned or at least checked once or twice a year, it’s a lot of money....  

A permanent pier is my next project once i decide what i'm going to house it in.

[AndyH]

With a mount that has been around as long as the variants of the EQ6 has, and the amount of weight it can carry, I must admit Id've thought this problem would've been taken care of by now.  But hey-ho.

[LightBucket]

Just had a look on Modern astronomy and the wedge has been discontinued and is being replaced with a new product, soon....looks like they will have a new version.....

https://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/accessories/mount-accessories/mkiii-eq6wedge/

[Sp@ce_d]

It is sad to see yet another thread on this age old bendy bolts issue. I refrained from changing out to harder bolts on any of my mounts as I’ve seen too many stripped thread & even cracked mount “Threads” on here. As said before if you want to adjust fully loaded then loosen off both bolts and grab the shaft & scope & ease to general position. Then adjusting both bolts at same time tweak gently. It is a good idea to loosen the bolts right off, grab the unloaded head & move up & down to make sure it feels smooth & you have no binding elsewhere first of all. At my altitude the lower bolt is up against the polar scope so a right finger jamming pain. Also the top bolt can jam against the counter weight lock screws if they are in the centre & not checked for clearance as the arm swings past!

[Grierson]

Can’t speak for the EQ6 but one of the contributory factors, on my HEQ5 at least, is the over tight bearing that required bruit force using the ‘Armstrong Method’ to get it to 52 degrees when I first set it up. It would never have been achieved with the bolts loaded or not.

[derekf]

14 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

It is sad to see yet another thread on this age old bendy bolts issue. I refrained from changing out to harder bolts on any of my mounts as I’ve seen too many stripped thread & even cracked mount “Threads” on here. As said before if you want to adjust fully loaded then loosen off both bolts and grab the shaft & scope & ease to general position. Then adjusting both bolts at same time tweak gently. It is a good idea to loosen the bolts right off, grab the unloaded head & move up & down to make sure it feels smooth & you have no binding elsewhere first of all. At my altitude the lower bolt is up against the polar scope so a right finger jamming pain. Also the top bolt can jam against the counter weight lock screws if they are in the centre & not checked for clearance as the arm swings past!

Thanks but as i've said earlier in the thread i only had one bolt in(one by the polar scope). i'm not even able to tweek it, as soon as it goes tight up against the collar it will bend before moving the mount a fraction. The mount  moves ok by hand loaded and unloaded.

 To me its like going out in a brand new car and the steering wheel bends instead of the car turning at the first corner, i wouldn't go to the store and buy a new upgraded steering wheel or even entertain for a second putting up with it. The car would go straight back to the dealer and told where to shove it especially if he told me to take the weight off the wheels in order to turn.

I Don't mean to offend and i guess i'll be slammed or hung drawn and quartered for saying this but i'm amazed how many have put up with this problem for so long.

[LightBucket]

1 minute ago, derekf said:

Thanks but as i've said earlier in the thread i only had one bolt in(one by the polar scope). i'm not even able to tweek it, as soon as it goes tight up against the collar it will bend before moving the mount a fraction. The mount  moves ok by hand loaded and unloaded.

 To me its like going out in a brand new car and the steering wheel bends instead of the car turning at the first corner, i wouldn't go to the store and buy a new upgraded steering wheel or even entertain for a second putting up with it. The car would go straight back to the dealer and told where to shove it especially if he told me to take the weight off the wheels in order to turn.

I Don't mean to offend and i guess i'll be slammed or hung drawn and quartered for saying this but i'm amazed how many have put up with this problem for so long.

I totally agree with you....I would be the same, just hope you get it sorted and are satisfied with the outcome..

[brantuk]

On a side note - this problem is one of the reasons a lot of folks sold their NEQ6's and got the newer AZEQ6-GT which has the much more substantial mechanism for set up and polar alignment. It's stronger and can be adjusted under load. If you get no joy from the return and you have the top up money required - maybe they would do an exchange for you - just an idea.

[derekf]

2 minutes ago, brantuk said:

On a side note - this problem is one of the reasons a lot of folks sold their NEQ6's and got the newer AZEQ6-GT which has the much more substantial mechanism for set up and polar alignment. It's stronger and can be adjusted under load. If you get no joy from the return and you have the top up money required - maybe they would do an exchange for you - just an idea.

I wish i had as it is not that much more. i wasn't aware of the problem with the version i got and thought i was getting a good deal with the belt upgrade and tuning. perfect for astrophotography so i thought.

It was advertised as NEQ6 Pro and the state "This is the new NEQ6. Used to be called the EQ6 pro. The differences are twofold" 

It is still a cracking mount its just been let down a little. 

[Sp@ce_d]

Yours does sounds as if its tighter than usual then. I havn't been at the point of extreme force to adjust my NEQ6 or HEQ5 & I wouldn't force them either.

The other reason we have "put up" with them is the fact there wasn't anything else available at this price point that does the job as well as they do.. certainly not for AP. Next one up is the EQ8 which is fine in this regard.. after that its 5k Plus really.

[newbie alert]

Think skywatcher and celestron for that matter need a big kick up the... (you all know).. the very basic of basic it to be able to polar align  pretty easily..

[Stu]

2 hours ago, derekf said:

I Don't mean to offend and i guess i'll be slammed or hung drawn and quartered for saying this but i'm amazed how many have put up with this problem for so long.

Not offensive at all. My point was just that it is a case of accept or return, rather than expecting the retailer to be able to fix it in some way. If they look at it and send it back to you it will still have fundamentally the same issues, although they may ease the tightness of the alt axis.

[Paul M]

I was aware of this issue when I bought my NEQ6 Pro because it was a very hot potato here on SGL at the time, with various mods being shared and offered. So I was well prepared for taking it easy on the dec adjusting bolt. I circumvented the risk of bending the bolt by backing off the unstressed bolt and physically lifting the strain off the loaded bolt then just turn it half or quarter of a turn before letting the load rest against it again. More or less using it as an adjustable stop, never moving it while under strain. I set up and break down after every session and don't find it too much of a chore (then again, my polar aligning is dog rough!  )

Let's remember that it's been one of the most successful and affordable goto/tracking mounts ever in amateur astronomy. Compared with my old Fullerscopes MkIII mount, it's a stunning piece of kit!!  

Having said that, I fully appreciate the OP's point. It's a bit of a bother that such a long standing design issue hasn't been corrected or improved by a factory installed mod. In his position I think I'd be talking nicely to the vendor about changing it for the newer mount. 

 

[Mr Spock]

Exacly what I said above.

The reality here is Skywatcher have said this bolt is made from soft steel for a reason. It's so the bolt thread strips rather than the mount thread which is more difficult to fix/replace. Bolts are bending because people are not following the manufacturer's instructions. Those of us who do follow the instructions don't have a problem. I've had huge amounts of kit on mine and the bolt is fine.

[derekf]

1 hour ago, Mr Spock said:

Exacly what I said above.

The reality here is Skywatcher have said this bolt is made from soft steel for a reason. It's so the bolt thread strips rather than the mount thread which is more difficult to fix/replace. Bolts are bending because people are not following the manufacturer's instructions. Those of us who do follow the instructions don't have a problem. I've had huge amounts of kit on mine and the bolt is fine.

Hello Michael

I can only see one warning in the manual about the bolts and its on page 9. Please feel free to read the manual then come back here and tell me again i haven't followed their instructions. 

"Make sure to loosen one altitude adjustment T-bolt before tightening the other. Over-tightening can cause the bolts to bend or break"

Here is the link to the manual

https://inter-static.skywatcher.com/upfiles/en_download_caty01461887945.pdf

 

 

 

[John]

Presumably the people you need to convince are the retailer from whom you purchased the mount from, rather than us ?

Probably best to get a refund then pick an alternative mount. Good luck

[derekf]

3 minutes ago, John said:

Presumably the people you need to convince are the retailer from whom you purchased the mount from, rather than us ?

Probably best to get a refund then pick an alternative mount. Good luck

Indeed John this is true 

I started this thread as i was in disbelief that its a well know fault and been ignored for so long.

I have learnt something new from this thread, and that is looking at some of the replies i don't think its as severe for some or effects every mount.

[Red baron]

Hi are you using a full size wedge or a drake frame  trying to work out which is best long term thanks