Yet Another Newbie!

[Redscouse]

Evening all, (waving)

My name is Pete and yet another newbie on the scene. I have read quite a few posts on this forum as when I needed some information a quick Google search would often bring me here. Tonight I stumbled upon the thread by The Warthog regarding eyepieces and read through the entire thread! Great article indeed! (and if i'm honest, the reason I signed up.) It seems like a great place with great advice!

At Christmas my wife was struggling to decide on a present for me. A few days earlier a friend of mine from school (many many moons ago - see what I did there!  ) had posted a photo on social media of himself and his two lads looking through their scope. When the wife asked me if I had any idea what I wanted, this image immediately jumped into my mind so I told her, yes, I'd like a telescope please and left it at that. 

Christmas morning I opened my present - and the many many boxes it came in - to find a Skywatcher Explorer 130P with an EQ2 mount! Needless to say I was a very happy chappy!
I set it up and eagerly awaited clear skies. After a reluctantly giving up the first few cloudy nights I managed to get a clear sky a few nights later so out I went with my scope onto my balcony where I set up camp for a few hours and began to enjoy the skies. 
The long wait for clear skies proved quite fruitful - although at the time it didn't feel that way - because I began to fiddle around with the mount. I mean, what on earth is an EQ2 mount? and what are all them dials for? So Google and Youtube became my close friends and I learned not only what 'polar aligned' meant but also how to do it! I also learned RA/DEC a bit more jargon which, when it came time to look through the scope meant I could turn this little knob thingy me bob - RA slow motion wheel - I could keep the object in view! I was truly amazed! I even learned how to use the setting circles however I don't use them often as I seem to be hit and miss with them.
I think the wife did good!  

Now, fast forward a few weeks and I well and truly have the bug! I spent hours looking for Andromeda, I knew it was there somewhere, I just couldn't pinpoint it using Cassiopia as the starting point. I then read about finding the big square (i forget it's name) go up two, over two and viola, there it was! Not very clear but I had finally found it!  

I have already created a wishlist which gets longer anytime I am surfing the web!
Future upgrades I'm thinking of are:

1. Mount:
   Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro Synscan.
2. Eyepieces:
   I was thinking of the Celestron set however I would rather spend a bit more for better quality as I want to see 'better' not necessarily 'bigger' so I am now deciding between the Meade 4000 or 5000 sets. 
3. Astro equipment:
   Not sure what yet as I have no idea about photography really. I am just a point an shoot type of photographer. ISO and shutter speeds mean nothing to me. I currently have a DLSR with two lenses - a short one and a long one - that I use for taking photos when needed. I have used this to take a nice photo of Orion nebula and was amazed when I could see the red cloud!
4. Telescope:
   A bigger, better scope. Probably stick with the reflector rather than a refractor - unless advised otherwise. 
5. Unknown:
   I'm sure there are other things I'll get around too!  

My apologies for rambling on, for a 45 year old, I feel like a kid in a candy store with my new present and looking forward to what I've yet to see!

Take care all, see you round the forum sometimes.
Peace and clear skies to all!

Pete.

[Charic]

13 minutes ago, Redscouse said:

I want to see 'better' not necessarily 'bigger'

Welcome to the SGL.

The scope itself produces a 'real' image at the focal plane. Inserting an eyepiece into the focuser allows you to see this image.
Its really down to the size and quality of the scope to provide you with a perfect image.
Eyepieces can allow for better fields of view, better eye relief but wont make the image any better than that provided by the scope!
You don't always need to spend a fortune on eyepieces, you just need to find one thats right?

Look at my signature, seems like I've sold all the good ones and kept the rest? Those in the used/sold list were no better  for my visual observations than those which remain, but as always, choosing eyepieces will always be down to personal preference.
Enjoy your  astronomy quest!

[Redscouse]

24 minutes ago, Charic said:

Welcome to the SGL.

Thank you.  
 

24 minutes ago, Charic said:

Welcome to the SGL.

The scope itself produces a 'real' image at the focal plane. Inserting an eyepiece into the focuser allows you to see this image.
Its really down to the size and quality of the scope to provide you with a perfect image.
Eyepieces can allow for better fields of view, better eye relief but wont make the image any better than that provided by the scope!
You don't always need to spend a fortune on eyepieces, you just need to find one thats right?

That makes a lot of sense! What I meant was, currently with the 10mm supplied I don't see clearly with it. The stars seem almost triangular. Through the 26mm they look round(ish) so I began to look through eyepieces and found mine are probably worth around a fiver. I know at some point in the not too distant future I will get a new scope. So with this in mind I would rather spend once for a really good set rather than keep paying £25's and £30's which inevitably mount up costs over time. My logic was, sod it. just go big now and have done with it. My price range would be around £100 per EP so the full set for £400/500 seems like a bargain, no?

Thanks for your feedback. A little food for thought you have given me there.

[Charic]

A 5mm or 8mm Starguider will seriously  better your present 10mm eyepiece in the comfort stakes. The 5mm would suit your scopes focal ratio providing a useable/manageable magnification for the scope, if/when conditions allow The 8mm will be more useable, and could even be Barlowed to give 4mm?

Either the 12mm or 18mm could be next? Why not try a pair and return any you don't like, or purchase more if you like. There's another thread running at present regarding these eyepieces, and the eyepieces are available from our site sponsor or eBay, either vendor offers discounts, take your pick.

[laudropb]

Hello and a warm welcome to the SGL

You do not have to be in a great hurry to get new eps. Those supplied are not the best but should be usable. The fact that the 10mm ep is giving such a poor image makes me wonder if the scope is properly collimated. Unfortunately with reflecting scopes this is a task that you must master. It seems quite daunting at first but is not as difficult as it seems. There are useful guides on here. Do not be afraid to ask questions before you attempt this.

The main thing is to enjoy your new hobby.

[PeterCPC]

Hello Pete and welcome.

Peter

[Pete Presland]

Hi welcome to SGL from Pete in Bedfordshire 
 

[Redscouse]

Thanks all.

I have a collimator (not the laser type) however I haven't used it yet as I assumed the scope would be already done at the factory.
Perhaps I will take up this challenge this afternoon. From what I've read online I understand how to do the primary mirror as that has a dot on it however I don't understand how i'll know if the secondary is out of line or not. Any advice greatly appreciated?
Or should i just go get a laser one?

[Floater]

Welcome. Seems like you’re having a lot of fun already ... and that’s what it’s all about! ?

[Charic]

2 hours ago, Redscouse said:

Thanks all.

I have a collimator (not the laser type) however I haven't used it yet as I assumed the scope would be already done at the factory.
Perhaps I will take up this challenge this afternoon. From what I've read online I understand how to do the primary mirror as that has a dot on it however I don't understand how i'll know if the secondary is out of line or not. Any advice greatly appreciated?
Or should i just go get a laser one?

This is my favoured guide (there are others)...... http://www.astro-baby.com/collimation/astro babys collimation guide.htm
Lasers sound great but the one I have, a Generation II (means nothing really!) needed to be calibrated itself, so cheap non-industrial/scientific are merely playthings, dangerous in the wrong hands ( both the the dangers of a laser beam hitting the eye or the mis-calibration/collimation of the scope itself unless the laser itself is accurate, and there is information on how to calibrate ( mine is now calibrated ). However, the bog-standard Cheshire collimation tool is my preferred method for collimating a scope. I could also use the laser,  35mm film-cap, eye-sight alone but the Cheshire is the most accurate/reliable and does not need calibrating or batteries.

 

[Charic]

I'm sure the Skywatcher Explorer 130P  is not a Jones-Bird design and has a parabolic mirror!

If your still going to buy a laser, then a laser used with a Barlow lens is a fast and efficient way to check in the field if your scope has come out of collimation ( possibly dropped-Ouch! or  knocked out of alignment through the rigours of transportation? ) I will use this method when away from the house using the information in this guide,  http://www.micosmos.com/enlaces/collimation_with_a_Barlowed_Laser.pdf   but honestly, a laser is not essential, the basic Cheshire collimation tool is all one needs, safe, accurate ( down to the user?)  and reliable.

[Dave Lloyd]

Hi Pete, welcome. 

[Redscouse]

Hi Charic, thanks for the link. Going to have a read now before I start.

 

47 minutes ago, Charic said:

I'm sure the Skywatcher Explorer 130P  is not a Jones-Bird design and has a parabolic mirror!

I'm not even sure what that means or if indeed you were talking to me? 
I can confirm - according to the guy in the store - it is a parabolic mirror (that's what the 'P' means, so I am told) 

I wasn't necessarily going to buy a laser type as I have a Cheshire already. What I don't want to do is mess it up so badly it becomes unusable. 
I am about to give it a whirl. Wish me luck! 
--

Hi Floater, I am indeed!
Even on days with cloud cover, I just play with the scope/mount indoors using Stellarium and the setting circles then stand back and look at the scope picturing where the object should be and think to myself 'does that look positioned correctly' - This is how I figured out how to use them.  
--

Hi Dave, Thank you.   

[Charic]

If it was a Jones-Bird design, you would encounter a fixed lens in bottom of the focuser, this particular arrangement/setup actually would interfere with Laser alignment.

Read, read and re-read until you have it in your head as to what collimation is all about, and if  your following the linked guide, using 'card' separates the images, making sense of the reflections. Just take your time, don't drop any tools down the scope, KEEP THE SCOPE NEAR HORIZONTAL if you have hands or tools inside the telescope ( meaning adjusting the secondary mirror).

Before you actually 'fiddle' with the scope, you could attempt a simple  Star test? Focus on a Star, Polaris is good, not that bright, but almost stationary in the sky so you have more time.

Focus on the Star then defocus either-side of focus. Its only a slight adjustment, but your looking for some rings of light that are concentric in their pattern. If it looks good, then collimation is not needed. If it is required, then continue with the guide. If you get stuck, just ask, someone here will chip in with help.

 

[Mr Spock]

Hi Pete, welcome to SGL

Well done on finding all that information yourself. I would advise waiting before buying eyepieces or upgrading. As yet you probably haven't seen much with what you have and, I know it's tempting to indulge, but many expensive mistakes are made that way. My advice would be to get lots of observing in to see what your preferences are; join in the forum and ask as many questions as you like; soak up as much knowledge as you can. Once you get confident of your needs, choices will become clear.

Good observing!

[Nyctimene]

Hello, Pete,

welcome to this friendly forum from a German stargazer and dobsonaut!

Reading your posts, I appreciate the way you've  already done your "homework" (polar aligning, using the setting circles, reading, successful observing, and so on) - that's a good way to start with this "learning hobby".

Astro Baby's Collimation Guide is still one of the best; here's an additional one for collimating with a Cheshire (I'd avoid a laser):

http://www.propermotion.com/jwreed/ATM/Collimate/Chesire.htm

Some examples of optical aberrations (eyepiece or Newtonian reflector) are shown here:

http://umich.edu/~lowbrows/reflections/2007/dscobel.27.html

Hope this helps; and continue asking!

Stephan

[Redscouse]

Thanks all for the advice. 
Before I touch anything this is what I see.
Any words of advice as to what, if anything, is out of line. (clearly something is)

  

[Charic]

A secondary mirror is oval in shape, and when correctly aligned, appears to be perfectly circular and concentric to the inner edge of the focuser tube.
Looking down the focuser tube with just your eyes the  secondary mirror should look central with equal spacing around the mirror  and concentric to the  wall of the focuser. If required, wind the focuser out a little in order to se the full circumference of the secondary mirror. Also at this stage, you should be able to see the primary mirror clips, they should only just be visible. If this looks ok, adding the Cheshire tool increases the ability to see any inaccuracies. 

If any adjustments are required, read, re-read the guide and continue..........

From your image, there is some gap at the lower edge of the mirror, and only one mirror clip is visible. The left shadow is possibly that of the focuser tube, so some slight adjustment looks likely. 

[Redscouse]

23 minutes ago, Charic said:

so some slight adjustment looks likely. 

I was afraid you were going to say that.  

[Charic]

Once your familiar/accustomed to collimation, you'll wonder what the fuss was about!
The task takes seconds to check and few seconds more if you need to adjust further down the line.

[martinl]

11 minutes ago, Redscouse said:

I was afraid you were going to say that.  

Why? If something you already like turns out to benefit from some adjustment, well, that can only make it better!

As Charic says, once you understand collimation you wonder what all the fuss is about. Here is another well-regarded guide to collimation by the late Nils Olof Carlin: http://web.telia.com/~u41105032/kolli/kolli.html

There are many guides out there - some too simplistic, some too technical. However, if you read a couple you soon figure out what is important. You basically want everything to line up. Duh...

[sloz1664]

Hi Pete and a warm welcome to the Lounge

Steve

[Redscouse]

2 hours ago, sloz1664 said:

Hi Pete and a warm welcome to the Lounge

Steve

Thanks Steve.  
 

3 hours ago, martinl said:

Why? If something you already like turns out to benefit from some adjustment, well, that can only make it better!

I wasn't actually worried. Just wondered if it was necessary.  

Anyways, thanks for all your inputs. I gave it a go. Took me a while and there was one point I thought uh-oh that's not good! 
However I carried on and I think (read: hope) I made it better not worse. Now just waiting for clear skies to check.

Let's begin.. (the card between the primary/secondary helped enormously)

Removed the card and was greeted with this... Crikey!


A few twists and turns to the screws and we're getting somewhere..


Finally. I'll settle for that... for now.


It wasn't difficult. More time consuming than anything. I assume that will get better with practice. 
I posted these pics here for any newcomers like myself thinking about collimation and what to expect to see.

Thanks again for all the advice, it is very much appreciated.  

[Charic]

22 minutes ago, Redscouse said:

It wasn't difficult. More time consuming than anything. I assume that will get better with practice.  

Definitely an improvement................proof in the pudding when you get a chance to use the scope.
 

[MarsG76]

You must have been a good 45 year old boy for santa to bring you such a gift :-) 

Welcome to SGL