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icebergahed

Celestron x-cell or Ultima duo or Badder hyps

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Sooo after some posts and research, for my budget i have drawn down to these 3 eyepieces in 5,8 and 13mm which i plan to pick up next week.

Could anyone advise the best choice for a nexstar 6SE i have a f6.3 reducer also.

Thank you

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Easy choice... BST Starguiders. The Ultima Duo and Hyperions are the same eyepieces and reported not to be good in a scope as fast as yours with the reducer fitted. This leaves you with the X-cel LX which are optically similar to the cheaper and more comfortable Starguiders. 

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Of the 3 choices above, I'd choose Hyperions. At your scopes' native F10 they will be excellent... Also, they will fit both 2" and 1.25" focusers without an adapter.

Larger field than the Xcel LXs, (68 degree Vs 60 Deg), and superior eye relief (20mm Vs 16mm). Sharper on axis (which is where you will view with your tracking facility. Better build quality. Bigger eye lens (more comfortable) and you can buy winged eyeguards as an accessory which really do keep out stray light.

Job done☺.

Dave

 

 

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Just had a look at them. Why arent they £150. I would have thought as with everything else you get what you pay for. They dont seem bad, but the price sets you up to belive they are not great???

Edited by icebergahed
The Bst's

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8 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

Of the 3 choices above, I'd choose Hyperions. At your scopes' native F10 they will be excellent... Also, they will fit both 2" and 1.25" focusers without an adapter.

Larger field than the Xcel LXs, (68 degree Vs 60 Deg), and superior eye relief (20mm Vs 16mm). Sharper on axis (which is where you will view with your tracking facility. Better build quality. Bigger eye lens (more comfortable) and you can buy winged eyeguards as an accessory which really do keep out stray light.

Job done☺.

Dave

 

 

How about the celestron Ultima duo which also have a 68deg ?

Thanks

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I haven't used the Ultima Duo and have very rarely seen them advertised for sale used. That's significant, as there are lots of Hyperions in circulation and they are generally well regarded at F7 or slower, for the price. That means that if you buy some and want to upgrade in future, you should be able to sell them on readily.

I'd definitely go with the Baaders, of the 3 you have shortlisted.

Dave

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I believe the Ultima Duo and the Hyperions are optically the same. Either should do well in your scope at F/10. not so sure when it operates at F/6.3 though - some outer field astigmatism may well be visible then :icon_scratch:

The X-Cell LX's are of similar optical quality with a slightly smaller apparant field of view. The BST Starguiders also mentioned above would produce very similar results at a lower purchase price than the rest.

The BST Starguiders are also quite well corrected in faster scopes if you should ever get one.

 

 

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Im not sure how the BST eyepieces are so good but £40-£60 a pieces. Good and cheap dont ever go together. Im not complaining but when something sounds too good to be true...

FLO seem to be one of the only few suppliers for this?

Thanks

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2 hours ago, icebergahed said:

Im not sure how the BST eyepieces are so good but £40-£60 a pieces. Good and cheap dont ever go together. Im not complaining but when something sounds too good to be true...

FLO seem to be one of the only few suppliers for this?

Thanks

My regular eyepieces are Tele Vue (Nagler, Ethos, Delos, Panoptic and Nagler zoom) and Pentax XW's but, after quite a bit if initial scepticism, I've been really quite impressed with the BST Starguiders that I've also owned over the past 12 months or so namely the 18mm, 12mm and 8mm. 

My scopes are faster than your F/10 SCT and a fair bit more challenging on eyepieces. The BST Starguiders performed well even with my 12" F/5.3 dobsonian.

The BST Starguiders are also sold under other brandings elsewhere but are quite a bit more expensive then:

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-paradigm-dual-ed-eyepieces_c52.aspx

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4931_TS-Optics-1-25--ED-Okular-12mm---60--ebenes-Bildfeld---hoher-Kontrast.html

I agree that usually you do get what you pay for but there are a cases where this rule is at least bent a bit and the BST Starguiders are one in my experience. Occasionally expensive and not so good are also found together as well, but fortunately not often.

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, icebergahed said:

Im not sure how the BST eyepieces are so good but £40-£60 a pieces. Good and cheap dont ever go together. Im not complaining but when something sounds too good to be true...

FLO seem to be one of the only few suppliers for this?

Thanks

These are manufactured by Barsta, BST is Barsta's own trading name for them.

http://www.barsta.com/show_hdr.php?xname=MDA8V11&dname=OPFOR71&xpos=13

Good and cheap are relative terms, but I can name a few good cheap eyepieces.

0_3_1246324995.jpg.b31782f60177c8d46fcdae8db861d225.jpg

I have the 3.4mm and 25mm of these. The build quality is decent, like all Barsta products, QC can vary, but on the whole these are superb eyepieces to actually use. What you actually pay for an eyepiece and what it's actually worth are often quite different things. These are marketed under various names for widely varying prices. You don't always get what you pay for.

I can't recommend these enough (whatever price you pay).

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Speaking of cheap and good, these SvBony Aspherics were less than £20 apiece and they have plastic housings, let alone polymer eye lenses. They rival TV's or ortho's to look through. You can get them off Amazon.

IMG_20171003_033750.jpg.0d7f7a2cd5d8e3882a6293b5a6b967e6.jpg

I've changed the drawtube on the 10mm (middle) although the 4mm and 23mm have their original tubes. The 4mm can show some false colour off axis (it has a drawtube negative lens)

IMG_20171001_142159.jpg.03812a2cc028cfd4a6b8d426c63f715d.jpg

but the others are almost optically perfect. Bright, incredibly sharp, distortion free ... and cheap.

IMG_20171009_110431.jpg.30624f78bfb955d1c74797f583c87c0f.jpg

 

Edited by Mak the Night

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Just buy one BST to try them out. I wouldn't buy three eyepieces in one go having not even tried one to see how I get on with it!

observing is a personal thing and just because someone finds them comfortable and easy to use does not mean you will too. Your eyes are unique and not the same as mine :) (plus your facial shape, eye socket size, nose size etc lots of parameters that can make an eyepiece comfortable and easy to use or not? you only discover this with time spent using them)

There is no rush to buy loads of kit, the sky will still be there tomorrow night too.

Alan

Edited by alanjgreen
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Just as last minute thought. I have seen these

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/taxonomy/term/256/products

Which are around the same price range as the others. I know they have a narrower FOV and less lens elements inside. I dont know if more lens elements means its better???  Or just sifferent BUT is it something i should consider. If this Brand is one of or the best maybe i start there.

Thanks

 

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I have all the TV 1.25" Plossls, including a pair of 15mm's. When I bought mine they were much cheaper. Personally, I'd go GSO or Vixen for Plossls now. 

tvp1.jpg.179f1277a541c8099a832f06db896fae.jpg

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-npl-eyepieces.html

 

https://www.365astronomy.com/GSO-Super-Plossl-Eyepieces/

 

Apart from build quality there isn't much difference. The TV's are expensive as they're made in Japan. Plus, TV don't make a Plossl less than 8mm. I can't tell the difference between my Vixen and TV Plossls when viewing and the GSO are virtually as good.

Edited by Mak the Night

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29 minutes ago, icebergahed said:

Just as last minute thought. I have seen these

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/taxonomy/term/256/products

Which are around the same price range as the others. I know they have a narrower FOV and less lens elements inside. I dont know if more lens elements means its better???  Or just sifferent BUT is it something i should consider. If this Brand is one of or the best maybe i start there.

Thanks

 

The eyepieces linked to are plossls and the plossl is a 4 element design.

You will find plenty on the forum on the qualities of the Tele Vue plossl :icon_biggrin:

 

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2 minutes ago, icebergahed said:

Thank you for this it will be a great read later.

So would you choose the TV plossl over the Hyperion ?

Or i may get 1 of each?

You're welcome. The Plossl and the Hyperion are very different eyepieces. Plossls can be used for high or low magnification but you are limited to a 50° field of view. This is fine for high magnification lunar/planetary viewing, but for observing star fields, clusters and many deep sky objects a lower power wider angle gives you more true field of view. A full moon is about half an arc degree in the sky, a wider angle eyepiece combined with a low magnification can give several degrees of field of view.

5a491d0dd4461_BaaderHyperionAspheric31mm.jpg.db638ec8060a383d10242fd99ea8f052.jpg

I have the 31mm and 36mm Hyperion Aspherics and they are used predominantly for low power (sometimes around 11x ~ 13x) wide angle views.

5a491d14c7407_36mmBaaderHyperionAspheric.thumb.jpg.841e9d2400d6ed0069adcc6c4a488d65.jpg

They are large eyepieces though and I wouldn't usually use them for high magnifications. 

I think a short focal length Plossl for high magnifications and a longer length Hyperion for low power magnifications would be a good start. I'd still go for a GSO or Vixen Plossl over the TV though. 

 

 

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I currently have these which i inherited with the telescope. Are any of them keepers?

38mm celestron omni

21mm celestron ultima duo

25mm celestron

20mm Revelation

12mm celestron omni

Thanks

 

IMG_20171231_57989.jpg

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21 minutes ago, icebergahed said:

I currently have these which i inherited with the telescope. Are any of them keepers?

38mm celestron omni

21mm celestron ultima duo

25mm celestron

20mm Revelation

12mm celestron omni

Thanks

 

IMG_20171231_57989.jpg

Yes, they are all good. The 32mm Celestron Omni Plossl is made by Barsta, like the Celestron 25mm Plossl. I don't think Barsta 32mm Plossls quite have a 50° FOV like the GSO equivalent, but it is still a good Plossl. I have the Orion version of the 25mm 'Celestron' Barsta Plossl.  Seen below next to a 25mm GSO Plossl.

IMG_20170429_015544.jpg.c2b7b24316e806edceb0c330208fef13.jpg

GSO aka Guan Sheng Optical make good quality Plossls that are probably a bit better than the Barsta made ones in scopes f/5 or faster.

http://www.gs-telescope.com/content.asp?id=145

Although in an SCT or Mak there will be no difference. So the 20mm GSO (Revelation) is a keeper. The 12mm Omni is a decent Plossl, mine has a brass drawtube and I once confused it with an 11mm TV Plossl while observing the Moon with a 102mm Mak. The heavier drawtube made me think it was the TV when I placed it in the diagonal in the dark. I could tell no difference between the two to actually look through. 

I don't know much about the Ultima, I think they're actually Hyperions in a different housing, I'd hang on to it. 

Edited by Mak the Night

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23 minutes ago, icebergahed said:

I currently have these which i inherited with the telescope. Are any of them keepers?

38mm celestron omni

21mm celestron ultima duo

25mm celestron

20mm Revelation

12mm celestron omni

Thanks

 

IMG_20171231_57989.jpg

As these are the eyepieces you have now, I suggest you use them and make up your own mind,

Compare the 25mm celestron 50 degree plossl with the 21mm 68degree Ultima duo

- the 25mm should give lower power wide field but you may find the higher power 21mm gives you a better lower power feel as it has a much wider 68 degree field of view

You may conclude that 50 degree field of view is too narrow and not for you

You may find the eye relief of the plossls makes them uncomfortable to use

But you should decide for yourself...

If you decide they are not for you then as they have little monetary value (plossls are very old design, some love them but they have been surpassed by most modern eyepieces these days in my opinion), I suggest you throw them in the scope box and pass them on with the scope to the next owner (if you move on to something bigger in the future)?

The 21mm gives 1500/21 = x75 magnification, so maybe buy an eyepiece to give you a high power x150 to complement it (1500/150 =10mm), if you have concluded you prefer 68 degree over the narrower 50 degree then that’s another parameter for the new EP. If you conclude you prefer the eye relief (comfort of use) of the Ultima over the plossl then that’s another parameter sorted... and so on..

But the bottom line is get out there and use them!

Edited by alanjgreen
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Bought myself 2 of these 62 degrees FOV both 23 and 4mm eyepieces.  Didn't try them yet too much clouds and shiftworks.  Might add too cold (-35 degrees Celsius, -31 degrees Farhenheit).   Bought those on Ebay (Canada) for about 10$ each Canadian (8$ US).  Cannot wait to try them I know it's cheap but I like to explore the Chinese brand of optics.  Meaning bought these on Ebay bought they are made from China.  Also I bought another set of eyepieces from China too (through Ebay).  These were a little more expensive (but not are expensive as the Explore Sicentific, or else).  These were about 200$ (Canadian) and got them at 50% so about 100$ Canadian.  These are (suposedely) about 4-6 elements each.  Thought it might better than my Plossl that came with the scope.  Check the pictures for info.  

IMG_0607.JPG

IMG_0601.JPG

IMG_0603.JPG

IMG_0605.JPG

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The black ones with the red line around them are re-brands of the Skywatcher UWA / Orion Expanse eyepieces. They work quite well in F/10 scopes.

 

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4 hours ago, Chris33benoit said:

Bought myself 2 of these 62 degrees FOV both 23 and 4mm eyepieces.  Didn't try them yet too much clouds and shiftworks.  Might add too cold (-35 degrees Celsius, -31 degrees Farhenheit).   Bought those on Ebay (Canada) for about 10$ each Canadian (8$ US).  Cannot wait to try them I know it's cheap but I like to explore the Chinese brand of optics.  Meaning bought these on Ebay bought they are made from China.

I use a pair of the 23mm 62s in my binoviewer.  They are very good eyepieces.  Just be aware that the eye lens is a plastic, aspheric lens which can be scratched easily and the coatings on it have been known to wipe off.  The 4mm is reputed to be the poorest of the line while the 10mm is supposed to be very good.

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Got the ones with the gold band also, 4/10/23mm and i can confirm i like the 10 and 23mm but the 4mm not so much, then again 4mm in my 127 Skymax is maybe pushing it (375x).

Payed about €8,85/piece on AliExpress.

At that prices you can't go wrong i guess.

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