Thinking of getting a dedicated astro camera

[mikey2000]

Hi All,

 

It's advice time again!

 

(If this has all been dredged over before, please send me a link....)

 

I'm thinking of getting a proper astrophotography camera as I'm gettting frustrated by my current DSLR setup  - I'm definitely missing out on those glorious faint nebulae with my unmodded camera.

 

First, for background, here's my current setup:

EQ3 Pro.   Guided.  150PDS. Sony A6000 camera (APS-C 24mpix, I usually downsample to 6mpix when processing the raw files.  6mpix is plenty)  Badder Coma Corrector with 2" LP filter.  I live under moderate light pollution - the filter seems to really help

My results are generally OK with easy 3 minute subs.  Going beyond 5 mins is risky as my mount is prone to unexpect DEC jumps every now and then.  3 minute subs give me better odds of higher number of decent subs.

Here's the sort of thing I can manage now:

 

 

So to take my astrophotography to the next stage, I think I might need a dedicated astro camera.

 

The problem is that I don't know what I don't know!

 

I'm thinking along the lines of a QHY8L (at the top end of my budget).  I have a few requirements that I think *must* be met:

1) Large sensor.  APS-C would be ideal.   My guiding isn't accurate enough to support a very small pixel pitch.  The QHY8L would give me a resolution/image scale I am currently familiar and happy with

2) Files can be read by DSS.

3) Camera can accept my Coma Corrector and LP Filter.

4) Not too heavy - my A6000 only weighs as much as a 2" eyepiece, a real featherweight.  Possibly, this is a big factor as my mount is definitely on the limit of what it can support

 

To those in the know, does  a QHY8L fit the bill here?  Is there something equivalent but cheaper?   I think any APS-C dedicated astro camera might be an improvement over my A6000 (which seems to eat up red nebula quite happily)

 

I definitely prefer a one-shot colour camera.  I don't have time for fiddling with filter wheels - my rig is in an out of the garage and rarely running for more than an hour two.  I just don't have time to take all the different image sets.

 

That said, could I put an Ha or some other (eg OIII) filter on a QHY8L?  I think that would replace the LP filter and then allow data gathering on Hatargets, even under a full moon.

Will I be frustrated by the more advanced camera? I'm happy to learn something new but I wonder if I'd be opening a whole new can of worms with things like dessicants, cooling times, fancy power supplies...

 

So, I ask you all!  What do I need to know here before I plunge into something I might later regret?? Or will I love it?  Is there an alternative approach?  Is the QHY8L the best bang for buck in this range?

 

Thanks in advance!!

 

 

[geordie85]

Are you sure your getting the most out of your current camera?

Why not try this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/dark-art-or-magic-bullet-steve-richards.html and see if it makes much of a difference? 

Even if it doesn't make too much difference I'm sure you'll learn a couple of new techniques and will be able to sell it on with a minimal loss.

Better than buying a new camera and not getting better results. 

[Thalestris24]

Hi

You might be better off getting a better mount eg a heq5 pro - for less than the price of a qhy8l. You are pushing the imaging capabilities of an eq3 loaded with a 150pds. I don't think a different camera will help much. The qhy8l has good sensitivity in the red but you'd still need long exposures to pick up Ha regions. Also a qhy8l does need some time to cool down (obviously depending on the ambient temp) and to warm up again. Maybe 10 mins each way. Whereas, as you know, a dslr is always ready to go! Of course, a cooled mono camera is best...

Louise

[SteveNickolls]

Interesting post, might you instead of a new camera which will remain limited by your other equipment (3-5 minutes and at 5 minutes your mount jumps) and your time constraints ("my rig is in an out of the garage and rarely running for more than an hour two") consider saving up for a better mount to use your existing equipment on. You would still need to image for longer to get better images. Are you able to commit to this?

From what I understand a Ha filter will require longer exposures to give improved results, it will help remove much light pollution except around the Ha frequency of course and contrast will be improved. Using a Ha filter on a Bayered sensor whether DSLR or astro-OSC is partly defeating the object of a Ha filter too.

Perhaps take time out to consider the views from fellow SGL-ers. 

Final thought, a lot of improvement with images can come from getting experience with the processing software. Don't know what software you use for processing but you could download a  copy of StarTools for free to trial (just can't save an image but you can screen print while evaluating).

Best Regards,
Steve

[happy-kat]

For the price of that camera a fraction would pick up a modified dslr second hand to try with.

[mikey2000]

Lots of good ideas, things I should have thought of myself already, really.

 

processing:  I’ve watched/read so many tutorials that I’m quite sure I’ve reached the limit of what I can do with my existing hardware. (Yep, startools is good and the end result can be pushed even more with Lightroom/Photoshop)

 

Used, modded dslr: I’m sure I’m at the weight limit of my mount, I can’t think of a modded affordable dslr that doesn’t weigh a lot more than my a6000.    A modded a6000 is rather expensive for what it is and is annoyingly unsupported by all the favourite astro camera control apps.  Then I read of people suffering from all sorts of problems with canon sensors and so dithering etc.  All of that gives me the fear- my mount won’t cope with that kind of thing, I’m sure.

 

sub length with filters:  hmm, I thought I’d be able to stack multiple shorter subs.  Maybe not so after all

 

———-

 

this is talk is opening my eyes to a new conclusion: I should upgrade my mount before I upgrade anything else.

 

I will ask some questions about this in another thread....

 

[Thalestris24]

Hi

There are a number of Canons on the market and some of them are quite light eg the 100d. People often pick up second hand dslrs and get them modded or do it themselves if they're confident. A qhy8l isn't especially light ~400g + extras like extension tubes. There are no intrinsic problems with Canon sensors afaik. All osc cameras benefit from dithering to reduce colour noise even dedicated, cooled colour ccd's. If you attach a Ha filter to a colour camera only the red pixels are detecting true Ha photons, I think. It can be done but results are never going to be good as a mono sensor where all the pixels are picking up Ha. I'm contemplating getting either a qhy163m or asi1600mm-pro for that reason. It's quite possible to combine pure Ha images with colour/rgb/osc images. Yes, you can stack lots of shorter subs - it depends on your skies/camera/target. Obviously fainter nebulae (most of them!) need longer exposures. Even so, I think it's generally total integration time that counts in the end, and that's usually measured in hours for nebulae.

Anyway, I believe you'd be much better off getting a better mount first and maybe a cooled ccd/cmos later. But it's up to you! Your eq3 could still be used with, say, just a camera and lens  

Louise

[happy-kat]

How heavy is your 150pds compared to a 130pds or 70-80mm frac?

Think carefully about mount versus your habits for imaging session length including setup time.

[Gerry Casa Christiana]

Hello

I personally would upgrade my mount. This would free you so you can go much further with your equipment and also if and when you get a modified camera or dedicated astro. I'd keep it simple. Upgrade the mount to a eq6. I also use the Skywatcher 150pds on this mount. Best to get the best mount you can afford not just a slightly better one. Make it future proof.

Second hand dslr modified of course and then you can do H Alpha with a filter too. They do work on bayered cameras and yes it will give you more imaging time. 

Gerry  

[sloz1664]

I would personally go for a new mount. That is key to the advancement in astrophotograpy. With a one shot colour camera coupled with a dedicated LP filter you should be looking at a minimum of 5 minute exposures. The other side to the imaging coin is processing. This to me is the biggest hurdle in astrophotograpy. Master this and you will be the envy of a lot of imagers on this forum. Have a look in this forum. You will be surprised what you will be able to do, with a little help.

dslr_astro_image_processing@yahoogroups.com

Steve

[carastro]

I agree you should go for a new mount as the current mount is limiting your progress.  You can always get a CCD camera at a later date once you've explored what your DSLR is capable of with longer exposures.  

It is not necessary to go for an NEQ6 unless you think you might want to get a heavier scope at a later date.  I bought an NEQ6 on the "future proofing advice" about 6 years ago and later I also bought myself an HEQ5 for astro camps, and this has proved to be quite sufficient for my needs even with a dual rig.

So I have now sold the NEQ6, so think carefully about whether you're likely to be getting a heavy scope at some point in the future, if not an HEQ5 will be quite sufficient.

Carole 

 

 

[johnrt]

+1 for a new mount, then you can introduce guided subs of a decent length of 5/10/15 minutes with your DSLR.

[Waldemar]

+1 and much more for a better mount!

[mikey2000]

I think it is case closed here.  A HEQ5 or even NEQ6 costs the same or even less than a QHY8L (and I can sell on my EQ3 mount to recoup a little too)

 

Yep, that's the plan then. Thanks for the great advice :-)

[Waldemar]

Congratulations with a wise decision! This will improve your experience dramatically!

[DaveS]

Good decision!

I was about to say "Mount, mount, mount" but others got in first and I see you've taken their advice. One thing I would add, if you haven't already got it is Steve's other book, "Making Every Photon Count".

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

It'll give you some invaluable pointers to where your imaging should be going.

[spillage]

Again another +1 for mount. But the 150pds is allot heavier than a 130pds and will give you a larger fov. This may allow you to expose a little longer with your current kit and they can be had cheaply second hand.